17 minutes ago, Botus said:

so we can afford to kill another Ukrainian youth !!!!

Whilst not wishing to divert this thread what are you talking about here !?!

7 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

Whilst not wishing to divert this thread what are you talking about here !?!   " so we can afford to kill another Ukrainian youth !!!!"

the fines are not spent on road maintenance, education or health within the UK.  Its wasted funding an economic war we can't win against Russia

1) where the obvious visual clues are environmental damage and a million dead Ukrainian men between 20 to 60
2) the least well understood element, is the decline in quality of life for most UK citizens. Where 25% of your wage packet has been stolen in the last three years - as the elites causing the misery pocket 85% of the slush fund, and murder with abandon using the other 15% - ...whilst carefully managing the the collapse in the prospects of most UK citizens longer term.  And when you want to argue - the Azov fraternity have already moved in to control you. As the water cannons aren't really effective

13 minutes ago, Botus said:

the fines are not spent on road maintenance, education or health within the UK.  Its wasted funding an economic war we can't win against Russia

1) where the obvious visual clues are environmental damage and a million dead Ukrainian men between 20 to 60
2) the least well understood element, is the decline in quality of life for most UK citizens. Where 25% of your wage packet has been stolen in the last three years - as the elites causing the misery pocket 85% of the slush fund, and murder with abandon using the other 15% - ...whilst carefully managing the the collapse in the prospects of most UK citizens longer term.  And when you want to argue - the Azov fraternity have already moved in to control you. As the water cannons aren't really effective

Ahh I see what you're saying.

I do not want to divert this thread so I will simply say I very much support Ukraine and distrust Russia in general and Putin in particular. Arguably, as a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum, means we are morally bound to support Ukraine anyway :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

You've had your say and I have had mine so I think we should drop the subject, on this thread at any rate !

I had to share this (from Sabre Roads) Brilliant !

 

46 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I had to share this (from Sabre Roads) Brilliant !

I regularly drive over a couple of locations where the speed painted on the road is at odds with the signage.  As for the 30/NSL, again there are a couple near me - the students from a local college seem to find it funny to turn them round after a night out. Couple of direction signs keep.pointing in the wrong direction also, for the same reason.

59 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I had to share this (from Sabre Roads) Brilliant !

Here's why your 'petition' won't work. Petitions simply don't work. Over a million signed to prevent the Iraq war - government simply ignored. More recently, over 250,000 Welsh citizens signed to prevent a ridiculous blanket speed limit of 20mph - government ignored it (though after implementing it, they now realise how stupid it was and are revoking it.

Councils can't manage their budget to repair their potholes so that the roads are basically safe to drive on. They are in no way going to agree a new operational budget to go out and paint the roads with speed limits, with humongous initial costs, and significant ongoing costs of maintenance.

Like I said before, we know you're p*ssed off, but we all are when we fall foul of speed limits. You need to learn to 'let it go' otherwise it'll just eat into you...

You only have to.look at the list of petitions to Parliament currently "open" to see the problem. It's incredibly difficult to garner sufficient signatures for any petition to have any impact.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=open

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

. It's incredibly difficult to garner sufficient signatures for any petition to have any impact.

I'm curious, what 'figure;' would you have in mind for a petition to have any impact?

5 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I'm curious, what 'figure;' would you have in mind for a petition to have any impact?

From what I've seen so far, probably 50 million and even then I'm not so sure! What do you reckon?

On 4/13/2025 at 11:21 AM, StephenFord said:

Here's why your 'petition' won't work. Petitions simply don't work. Over a million signed to prevent the Iraq war - government simply ignored. More recently, over 250,000 Welsh citizens signed to prevent a ridiculous blanket speed limit of 20mph - government ignored it (though after implementing it, they now realise how stupid it was and are revoking it.

Councils can't manage their budget to repair their potholes so that the roads are basically safe to drive on. They are in no way going to agree a new operational budget to go out and paint the roads with speed limits, with humongous initial costs, and significant ongoing costs of maintenance.

Like I said before, we know you're p*ssed off, but we all are when we fall foul of speed limits. You need to learn to 'let it go' otherwise it'll just eat into you...

You are right about it eating me up, but this petition thing isn't just for me. I have talked to quite a few people about this over the last week and I have been surprised at just how many people are annoyed as I am about the fact that speed limits are so complicated these days that the only way one can be certain of not getting a speeding ticket is by having local knowledge of the limits which is patently unfair. I am trying to get Howard Cox (Fairfuel UK) to start the petition, or if not at least support me with publicity because one thing is for sure it won't get more than a few dozen signatures without enough publicity.

On the Iraq war thing there were a lot of people, me included, who wanted to see the downfall of Saddam Hussein, but of the drivers I have spoken to so far 100% say "I'd sign that petition, no problem".
Similarly with the 20mph limits. I personally I think that for genuinely residential roads they are a good idea (not for through routes though), so even for that the support is not as strong as what it would be for clear speed limit signs at speed cameras. Who would not support it ?

13 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

From what I've seen so far, probably 50 million and even then I'm not so sure! What do you reckon?

Very possibly, but what more can one do ?

How far is all of this going to go ? More and more speed limits in more and more places...mine was on a dual carriageway primary route ! Speed limits can be annoying but it's far worse if you accidentally get a soddin' ticket......

7 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

Very possibly, but what more can one do ?

 

I've signed quite a few parliamentary petitions in my time and as you'll have seen, it takes 10,000 signatures to get a government response, which will usually be just a form of "weasel words" anyway.

At 100,000 a debate is reached and in some rare cases the issue may strike a chord with some independently minded MP(s) who might pursue the matter. 

So to get some momentum you need a "name" as a backer as you suggest, or some way of publicising the existence of the petition. I've seen a well judged letter (with mention of a petition slipped in) to e.g. the Mail or Express have an effect.

Wording can be tricky. We have a problem where I live with a vociferous local Green politician who is endlessly calling for more 20 limits, more speed bumps etc. It's very difficult to come up with a sensible rebuttal without being accused of being a friend of speeding child killers, etc!

They managed to badger our local parish council into starting a Community Speedwatch scheme, which people seemed to be reluctant to oppose, but now every month the council are asking for volunteers to man the camera and no-one steps up!😀

 

 

3 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

I am trying to get Howard Cox (Fairfuel UK) to start the petition, or if not at least support me with publicity ...

If possible, can you leave him alone?? He has enough on his hands trying to get moronic government to drop 'net zero' ambitions which will bankrupt us all!

As an illustration to democracy, when he recently ran for London Mayor, he ran on a ticket that if elected, on day one he would abolish ULEZ & congestion charges. Yet, dear Londoners voted Sadiq Khan straight back in, so obviously there are millions quite happy being ripped off...

At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.

 

On 4/9/2025 at 7:17 PM, StephenFord said:

That's what you get when you buy a new car full of electronic AI and other electronic cr*p. 🤣 In my old jalopy, the driver is actually in control of driving, I know, a novel idea 😁

I have the speed limit sign displayed on the digital dash and set to flash if I exceed it. The speed limiter is switched off so it's advisory only. I think that's the sweet spot for driver aids without them taking over. The AI (speed sign recognition and matrix headlights control) is really good on this car (Mk8.5 Fiesta ST-3). It seems to be able to tell the speed limit even when it doesn't see a sign, so maybe it uses Maps as well as the camera?

My old Gàrmin SayNav alerts me to the speed limit being broken by changing the limit icon to red, and I also have the audible alert enabled. It solely uses GPS information...

 

10 hours ago, TimST3 said:

maybe it uses Maps as well as the camera?

It does, afaik. What I find is that it seems to prioritise the camera  (which can pick up the "wrong" sign in places as I mentioned earlier) over the GPS which then takes quite some distance to correct the incorrect speed symbol.

This is all an EU initiative of course and article here (which mentions the Ford system) suggests 90-95% accuracy which is about my experience. It's a useful aid, but not foolproof.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/intelligent-speed-assistance-everything-you-need-know

On 4/14/2025 at 4:43 PM, StephenFord said:

If possible, can you leave him alone?? He has enough on his hands trying to get moronic government to drop 'net zero' ambitions which will bankrupt us all!
As an illustration to democracy, when he recently ran for London Mayor, he ran on a ticket that if elected, on day one he would abolish ULEZ & congestion charges. Yet, dear Londoners voted Sadiq Khan straight back in, so obviously there are millions quite happy being ripped off...
At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.

I disagree with you, in this instance it is about saving motorists money ! If the limit at that location had been more clear I would not have been speeding and therefore it would not be costing me £130 (plus three hours of my time) to do a speed awareness course !
In any case painting the speed limit on the road really wouldn't cost that much anyway....

On the subject of Howard Cox I am a mite disappointed. I have E Mailed him twice (17 days between them in case he's on holiday ! ) and heard nothing. At the absolute minimum I should have got a reply starting he sympathises but does not feel it's something his organisation should get involved in. I disagree on the latter obviously, I know for a fact many (most) drivers* are starting to get a bit sick of so many additional unjustified speed limits with speed cameras to generate loads of money.

* And I am someone who thinks some speed cameras are a good thing provided the speed limit is clear at that location.
On the subject of which that old chestnut "streetlights means it's 30mph (unless signposted otherwise)" is no longer fit for purpose. This (from Sabre) sums it up well :

The streetlights/no streetlights thing was a very elegant and simple solution to enable the 30 limit to be instituted in 1934, when many thousands of new signs would be needed to mark boundaries and waiting for them all to be erected would take too long. It also enabled the idea that a competent motorist could look around and determine the limit from their surroundings, which is admirable - both the law and the motorist are aided if it's possible to work out the correct speed limit no matter where you are. But that was all predicated on there being two possible states for a road (lit/not lit) and two possible limits (30/none).
When local limits came along that could override those defaults, they were bolted on to the existing system with as much elegance as could be achieved through the use of repeater signs, maintaining the principle of the competent motorist looking around and working it out. But as time has gone by and speed limits have become more complex the whole idea has been stretched to breaking point.
We are now in a situation where we already have several developments that mean a competent driver can't really rely on reading their surroundings at any given moment. There's the 20/30 disparity between Wales and the rest of the UK, but before that we had the change of rules around repeaters that reduced the requirement to one somewhere within the limit rather than enough to make them visible throughout. Many years back Scotland decided that the lights = 30 rule did not apply on classified roads, so there you need to know whether you're on an A or B road before evaluating the lighting levels and calculating the limit. And before even that the decision was taken to exempt motorways from the rule about lighting, so you also have to know whether or not you're on a motorway.

On 4/14/2025 at 4:43 PM, StephenFord said:

If possible, can you leave him alone?? He has enough on his hands trying to get moronic government to drop 'net zero' ambitions which will bankrupt us all!

As an illustration to democracy, when he recently ran for London Mayor, he ran on a ticket that if elected, on day one he would abolish ULEZ & congestion charges. Yet, dear Londoners voted Sadiq Khan straight back in, so obviously there are millions quite happy being ripped off...

At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.

Do you know Howard SF ?

I have still not had a reply to either of my E Mails (sent 12th and 29th Apr) and I am trying to work out if he is ill (or uncontactable for some other reason), or if he and/or his organisation are simply "discourteous".

On 4/14/2025 at 4:43 PM, StephenFord said:

If possible, can you leave him alone?? He has enough on his hands trying to get moronic government to drop 'net zero' ambitions which will bankrupt us all!
As an illustration to democracy, when he recently ran for London Mayor, he ran on a ticket that if elected, on day one he would abolish ULEZ & congestion charges. Yet, dear Londoners voted Sadiq Khan straight back in, so obviously there are millions quite happy being ripped off...
At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.

This will shock you, it shocked me..... It also indicates strongly that Howard Cox should be taking this up.

I did an FOI for the number of speeding tickets issued by that camera on the A348 at Ringwood Ave and I have just had it back. The results are below.
Note the speed limit was dropped in 2023, and for reasons nobody can fathom because if you go on Crashmap there are no serious accidents on that stretch of road for years before the limit was reduced from 40 to 30 : https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

Year - Speeding tickets from the camera at A348 Ringwood Rd West Howe (speed limit reduced in 2023, no data was given for that year, one can only speculate how high it was !) :

2020 - 39
2021 - 55
2022 - 32
2024 - 11,594
2025 - 3054 (pro rata = 6665)

I then tried to work out how much money that camera has "generated".
I have estimated how many speeding tickets were issued for 2023 from March to Dec, and it certainly would not be less than 2024's figure, so that would be 9,000 at least. So, that's over 23,000 tickets at £100 or more (for the fine or the speed awareness cost) so, unless my maths has accidentally dropped a decimal point, I reckon that camera has generated something around £2,300,000 ! That's well over two million pounds !
Plus it has caused much anguish to all those drivers (it certainly ****ed me off) but the speed limit drop has almost certainly not saved any lives, and probably not even prevented any serious injuries either.
 

>>At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.<<

I'd say over two million pounds, from one camera in 2 or 3 years, was sum worth saving !

1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

 

I'd say over two million pounds, from one camera in 2 or 3 years, was sum worth saving !

Apologies, you have misunderstood me. Government has absolutely no interest in 'saving' money from errant speeding motorists. What you propose is a substantial expenditure in capital budget, painting the road, and a further annual operational budget in maintenance. No government is going to support that.

Like I said at the start, you need to suck it up, and accept you were legitimately caught, that's what we all doi. You can be as angry as you want...

On 5/24/2025 at 12:14 AM, StephenFord said:

Apologies, you have misunderstood me. Government has absolutely no interest in 'saving' money from errant speeding motorists. What you propose is a substantial expenditure in capital budget, painting the road, and a further annual operational budget in maintenance. No government is going to support that.

Like I said at the start, you need to suck it up, and accept you were legitimately caught, that's what we all doi. You can be as angry as you want...

I take it you are not shocked by a speed limit by a speed camera being dropped from 40 to 30 for no reason (no serious accidents there for years before) and the number of speeding tickets going up from a few dozen a year to many thousands per year (because people do not expect a 30mph limit there on a primary route DC)?
Well I am shocked, and appalled, and angry, not just for me but for all the other drivers (those doing 34 to 39mph anyway).

And even worse, far worse, the council are so ***** arrogant about it :

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/25203649.speed-camera-sees-36-000-per-cent-increase-offences/

[when questioned about the massive increase in the number of speeding tickets] BCP Council said it had nothing further to add to its reason why it has changed the speed limit. 
A spokeswoman previously said: “They aim to improve safety and journeys for all road users along this busy road, including people walking, cycling and wheeling.” 

8 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I take it you are not shocked by a speed limit by a speed camera being dropped from 40 to 30 for no reason

Couldn't give a ***** buddy - I have a life...

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

Couldn't give a ***** buddy - I have a life...

Well I think it is a classic case of the motorist being shafted and I thought Howard Cox ("Fair Fuel UK") was fighting for the motorist ?

On 5/23/2025 at 10:46 PM, Justin Smith said:

This will shock you, it shocked me..... It also indicates strongly that Howard Cox should be taking this up.

I did an FOI for the number of speeding tickets issued by that camera on the A348 at Ringwood Ave and I have just had it back. The results are below.
Note the speed limit was dropped in 2023, and for reasons nobody can fathom because if you go on Crashmap there are no serious accidents on that stretch of road for years before the limit was reduced from 40 to 30 : https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

Year - Speeding tickets from the camera at A348 Ringwood Rd West Howe (speed limit reduced in 2023, no data was given for that year, one can only speculate how high it was !) :

2020 - 39
2021 - 55
2022 - 32
2024 - 11,594
2025 - 3054 (pro rata = 6665)

I then tried to work out how much money that camera has "generated".
I have estimated how many speeding tickets were issued for 2023 from March to Dec, and it certainly would not be less than 2024's figure, so that would be 9,000 at least. So, that's over 23,000 tickets at £100 or more (for the fine or the speed awareness cost) so, unless my maths has accidentally dropped a decimal point, I reckon that camera has generated something around £2,300,000 ! That's well over two million pounds !
Plus it has caused much anguish to all those drivers (it certainly ****ed me off) but the speed limit drop has almost certainly not saved any lives, and probably not even prevented any serious injuries either.
 

>>At the end of the day, Howard lobbies for saving money, you'd be lobbying to spend.<<

I'd say over two million pounds, from one camera in 2 or 3 years, was sum worth saving !

Ahh, it's made the Beeb, though no mention of who actually put the FOI in !

Speeding tickets up 36,000% after new 30mph limit

Speed cameras - are they out to get you?

Channel 5 8pm Wednesday 11 June