37 minutes ago, custom driver said:

Timed it all up put belt on released tensioner went for turn it to see if everything lines up it gets 2 turns and wont turn no more 🤦🤦🤦😡 

The vacuum pump is driven from the other end of the exhaust camshaft on this engine.

Not sure how easy it is to access on these, but might be worth checking that hasn't seized.

If it's not that then it's sounding like valve or camshaft damage.  But that seems unlikely from a belt slipping just at startup.

Not really sure what to suggest from this point.  We still don't know what cause the timing to slip in the first place do we?  Or did the old belt look a lot worse on the inside when it was removed?

27 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

The vacuum pump is driven from the other end of the exhaust camshaft on this engine.

Not sure how easy it is to access on these, but might be worth checking that hasn't seized.

If it's not that then it's sounding like valve or camshaft damage.  But that seems unlikely from a belt slipping just at startup.

Not really sure what to suggest from this point.  We still don't know what cause the timing to slip in the first place do we?  Or did the old belt look a lot worse on the inside when it was removed?

 

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

The vacuum pump is driven from the other end of the exhaust camshaft on this engine.

Not sure how easy it is to access on these, but might be worth checking that hasn't seized.

If it's not that then it's sounding like valve or camshaft damage.  But that seems unlikely from a belt slipping just at startup.

Not really sure what to suggest from this point.  We still don't know what cause the timing to slip in the first place do we?  Or did the old belt look a lot worse on the inside when it was removed?

It was turning fine when the belt was on both cams where turning fine, took belt of lined stuff up and put belt on and turns few times then locks up you have to wind it back, the brakes did go solid, if the vacuum pump is nackerd will that stop the cans from turning? But then again they where turning before with the old belt on 

5 minutes ago, custom driver said:

It was turning fine when the belt was on both cams where turning fine, took belt of lined stuff up and put belt on and turns few times then locks up you have to wind it back, the brakes did go solid, if the vacuum pump is nackerd will that stop the cans from turning? But then again they where turning before with the old belt on 

That belt was definitely on the way out but not the worst I've seen by a long way.

The vacuum pump is directly driven by the camshaft so yes if that does seize then the shaft will stop turning, and the belt will stop the other shafts as well.

But if that was seized then I wouldn't really expect it to just turn back.

 

I think the options now are either to remove the cam cover and check for any damage on or around the camshafts.  Or to contact an EcoBlue engine specialist and ask them if they've seen any engines where the timing has slipped but the belt was intact, and why it might be locking now after timing up again.

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That belt was definitely on the way out but not the worst I've seen by a long way.

The vacuum pump is directly driven by the camshaft so yes if that does seize then the shaft will stop turning, and the belt will stop the other shafts as well.

But if that was seized then I wouldn't really expect it to just turn back.

 

I think the options now are either to remove the cam cover and check for any damage on or around the camshafts.  Or to contact an EcoBlue engine specialist and ask them if they've seen any engines where the timing has slipped but the belt was intact, and why it might be locking now after timing up again.

Like i said, before it was turning fine as had to time everything up with the old belt on, also it's the exhaust cam thats out of line not sure if it makes a difference, If it was the cams tho it wouldn't turn prior before? 

1 hour ago, custom driver said:

Like i said, before it was turning fine as had to time everything up with the old belt on, also it's the exhaust cam thats out of line not sure if it makes a difference, If it was the cams tho it wouldn't turn prior before? 

Something strange has happened here.  It's still not making any sense.

I wouldn't expect it to turn freely with the exhaust cam about 30% out of sync.  Valves should have hot pistons and locked the engine like that.

I'm now wondering whether the cam pulley could slip around the shaft, so the shaft was correct, but the timing hole wrong.  Obviously no bolt there but I can't tell whether they're a tight press fit (which could potentially slip) or whether they're cast onto the shaft.

Ford don't sell the pulleys or shafts separately.  Have to buy the whole 'cassette' if anything does go wrong with the shafts.  (Link below).

https://ebay.us/m/hMPkFh

The vac pump is run from the exhaust camshaft.  But that theory is looking less and less likely.

I honestly can't understand what's gone wrong here.  Probably reached my limits of knowledge on this engine unfortunately.  I'd still have to recommend contacting an EcoBlue specialist before going any further now.  Maybe they'll know something about this specific engine that I don't.

6 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Something strange has happened here.  It's still not making any sense.

I wouldn't expect it to turn freely with the exhaust cam about 30% out of sync.  Valves should have hot pistons and locked the engine like that.

I'm now wondering whether the cam pulley could slip around the shaft, so the shaft was correct, but the timing hole wrong.  Obviously no bolt there but I can't tell whether they're a tight press fit (which could potentially slip) or whether they're cast onto the shaft.

Ford don't sell the pulleys or shafts separately.  Have to buy the whole 'cassette' if anything does go wrong with the shafts.  (Link below).

https://ebay.us/m/hMPkFh

The vac pump is run from the exhaust camshaft.  But that theory is looking less and less likely.

I honestly can't understand what's gone wrong here.  Probably reached my limits of knowledge on this engine unfortunately.  I'd still have to recommend contacting an EcoBlue specialist before going any further now.  Maybe they'll know something about this specific engine that I don't.

I’ll take vacuum pump of later today see what’s what with that, i’m thinking if i remove the vacuum pump and put the belt back on and see if the cams spin then?  High chance of vacuum pump gone as brakes did go hard, But i’ll have a look later today like i said if that’s all good i’ll remove crank case, But just a quick 1 also, when the intake cams where out of line the exhaust lined up perfect but vice verses when opposite was lined up, If the exhaust cams where nackerd surly it wouldn’t allow it to time up in first place?

6 hours ago, custom driver said:

But just a quick 1 also, when the intake cams where out of line the exhaust lined up perfect but vice verses when opposite was lined up, If the exhaust cams where nackerd surly it wouldn’t allow it to time up in first place?

It is baffling tbh.  If the engine rotated fine without locking before then it does seem like the camshafts were both in time, and only the locking hole/pulley was out of place.  But I can't work out how that would even happen.  The pulley slipping around the shaft is the only potential option but I don't think there's much of chance even if they are a push fit.

The only thing I thought about last night is the oil pump.  That's being driven from the crankshaft, and could be seizing up similar to the vac pump idea, stopping all of the shafts moving.  But again I think I'm clutching at straws now.

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

It is baffling tbh.  If the engine rotated fine without locking before then it does seem like the camshafts were both in time, and only the locking hole/pulley was out of place.  But I can't work out how that would even happen.  The pulley slipping around the shaft is the only potential option but I don't think there's much of chance even if they are a push fit.

The only thing I thought about last night is the oil pump.  That's being driven from the crankshaft, and could be seizing up similar to the vac pump idea, stopping all of the shafts moving.  But again I think I'm clutching at straws now.

Yeah it was only the cam out of line everything else lined up, if i take vacuumm pump of try line it up then try rotate it, if the vacuum pump is the problem should it rotate with it removed

1 hour ago, custom driver said:

if i take vacuumm pump of try line it up then try rotate it, if the vacuum pump is the problem should it rotate with it removed

Yes.

33 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes.

good guess tom 

34 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes.

So should the cams line up now then 

1 minute ago, custom driver said:

So should the cams line up now then 

Finally feels like some progress!

I'm not ruling out any valve damage now, if the vac pump locked the shaft even briefly then pistons could have hit valves.  All you can do is try to time it up again and then see if it rotates multiple times after that.

8 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Finally feels like some progress!

I'm not ruling out any valve damage now, if the vac pump locked the shaft even briefly then pistons could have hit valves.  All you can do is try to time it up again and then see if it rotates multiple times after that.

So just put the new 1 on don't have to do anything else? Then do the timing again?  Will that be why the cam wasn't lining up properly and locking? 

5 minutes ago, custom driver said:

So just put the new 1 on don't have to do anything else? Then do the timing again?  Will that be why the cam wasn't lining up properly and locking? 

There might be valve damage now we know what caused the non-start the first time.  If there is then that would mean the whole head needs to be removed and at least partly rebuilt.

The vac pump must have locked the exhaust shaft solid so then the belt would have skipped a few teeth over the locked shaft pulley while the other two shafts and pulleys were still moving.

The only way to test for valve damage is to time the engine up and put the belt back on, then rotate it by hand to make sure it doesn't lock at all.  As long as it rotates by hand, then you might want to try a compression test to confirm that all of the valves are still sealing ok.  (Or you can choose to skip the compression test and just try to start the engine, that is your choice to make).

Also, if you haven't done it already, take the sump off to make sure the oil pump strainer is clear.  Usually it is a failing wetbelt that clogs the oil pump pickup which breaks the vac pump on the 1.0 EcoBoost.  It would make sense for the same thing to happen on the 2.0 EcoBlue engine as well.

3 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Also, if you haven't done it already, take the sump off to make sure the oil pump strainer is clear.  Usually it is a failing wetbelt that clogs the oil pump pickup which breaks the vac pump on the 1.0 EcoBoost.  It would make sense for the same thing to happen on the 2.0 EcoBlue engine as well.

Sump is of mate, Strainer was clear to be honest, no shredded belt bits anywhere i've noticed, Ill put the next vacuum pump on then, would u spray brake cleaner in and around the vacuum pump before u put new 1 on? Apart from that put it on and if everything times up then MIGHT be a lucky escape? is that what your saying 

6 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Also, if you haven't done it already, take the sump off to make sure the oil pump strainer is clear.  Usually it is a failing wetbelt that clogs the oil pump pickup which breaks the vac pump on the 1.0 EcoBoost.  It would make sense for the same thing to happen on the 2.0 EcoBlue engine as well.

 

3 minutes ago, custom driver said:

Sump is of mate, Strainer was clear to be honest, no shredded belt bits anywhere i've noticed, Ill put the next vacuum pump on then, would u spray brake cleaner in and around the vacuum pump before u put new 1 on? Apart from that put it on and if everything times up then MIGHT be a lucky escape? is that what your saying 

Yeah it's a weird one.  Those belts don't look particularly bad.  Virtually nothing in the strainer either.

Must have just been a fault with the vac pump.  Nothing to do with the belts after all.

I wouldn't spray brake cleaner inside the oily parts of the engine.  Just wipe them out with a rag or blue roll.  Could try blowing compressed air back down the oil-ways if you've got access to that.

But yes that's exactly what I'm saying, could be a lucky escape if it's only the vac pump with no valve damage.

31 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yeah it's a weird one.  Those belts don't look particularly bad.  Virtually nothing in the strainer either.

Must have just been a fault with the vac pump.  Nothing to do with the belts after all.

I wouldn't spray brake cleaner inside the oily parts of the engine.  Just wipe them out with a rag or blue roll.  Could try blowing compressed air back down the oil-ways if you've got access to that.

But yes that's exactly what I'm saying, could be a lucky escape if it's only the vac pump with no valve damage.

 

31 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yeah it's a weird one.  Those belts don't look particularly bad.  Virtually nothing in the strainer either.

Must have just been a fault with the vac pump.  Nothing to do with the belts after all.

I wouldn't spray brake cleaner inside the oily parts of the engine.  Just wipe them out with a rag or blue roll.  Could try blowing compressed air back down the oil-ways if you've got access to that.

But yes that's exactly what I'm saying, could be a lucky escape if it's only the vac pump with no valve damage.

Started a slight cracking mate and the oil belt all the top layer is coming away and teeth are very cracking looking, Is that why it would turn over after timing the cam up because the vacuum pump

7 minutes ago, custom driver said:

 

Started a slight cracking mate and the oil belt all the top layer is coming away and teeth are very cracking looking, Is that why it would turn over after timing the cam up because the vacuum pump

Yes, just coincidence that it stopped turning after exactly 2 turns.  The vac pump was the fault all along.

We have seen belts with lumps hanging off them and teeth missing.  Yours aren't that bad compared to those haha!

6 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes, just coincidence that it stopped turning after exactly 2 turns.  The vac pump was the fault all along.

We have seen belts with lumps hanging off them and teeth missing.  Yours aren't that bad compared to those haha!

I pray i pray 😂😂😂 just don’t get why it turned fine because i took the old belt of, So does the piece that’s broke connect to the exhaust cam? I might be lucky 🤞if it all times up would it be ok to start it with things of for a quick fire up procedure?

57 minutes ago, custom driver said:

I pray i pray 😂😂😂 just don’t get why it turned fine because i took the old belt of, So does the piece that’s broke connect to the exhaust cam? I might be lucky 🤞if it all times up would it be ok to start it with things of for a quick fire up procedure?

Yes that broken piece goes into the end of the exhaust camshaft.

Can start with some things off yes.  Depends exactly which things though lol.  Vac pump off should be fine as long as the hole is covered.  Water pipes open is fine as long as there's no water left in them to spray everywhere.  Oil sump needs to be on obviously.

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes that broken piece goes into the end of the exhaust camshaft.

Can start with some things off yes.  Depends exactly which things though lol.  Vac pump off should be fine as long as the hole is covered.  Water pipes open is fine as long as there's no water left in them to spray everywhere.  Oil sump needs to be on obviously.

Perfect ill sort it later today or tomorrow and let you know thanks for your help your a star 👌

20 hours ago, custom driver said:

Perfect ill sort it later today or tomorrow and let you know thanks for your help your a star 👌

So as you know took vacuum pump out tried line the exhaust cam up and it only turns once backwards and once forward after that it locks up, but before it was turning over with the previous belt on as had to time it up