pezza371887

Ford Injector Issues 1.8 Tdci - Ford Wont Tell You About Them - Must Read

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Hi All,

I thought I would try and make this more open to the public as Ford seem to be doing everything they can to not tell customers about this issue. I own a 58 plate (Registered 09) Ford Focus 1.8 TDCI Duratorq, since the car was new it has suffered from 2 issues.

Issue 1 - While driving on the motorway the car will have intermittent hesitations when accelerating. This will usually happen then naturally allowing the car to decrease speed by taking your foot off the accelerator then applying it again. This can also happen when just cruising in 5th.

Issue 2 - This cannot be replicated however randomly you can get a violent jolt forward with the error displayed on the dash "Engine Malfunction". The car will go into limp mode then when you pull over turn the ignition off, wait a minute and start again will be cleared and free to drive normally again. My car has been into Ford for this issue during its warranty period and after it expired to be told there were error codes relating to a particular injector however they were telling me all 4 needed replacing at £1500. The
issue was so intermittent and could go months without it happening I have not yet had them replaced. I cover 350 miles a week commuting and can got weeks/months with no occurrences of this.

Ford have never told me about a known issue with the injectors until recently when I took my car to the Ford dealership in Eastleigh, Hampshire. One of their service department told me they were aware of a known issue with a batch of injectors ending in the part number 3. While my car was in for diagnostics they advised all 4 of my injectors ended in 3 and would need replacing at guess what... you got it £1500. I argued that surely if this was a known issue with a bad batch Ford should replace these.

They said not and the car is out of warranty so I will have to foot the bill. I asked whether there was any documentation on this however they said no, even their customer
services director categorically told me nothing existed after checking with their service desk. I have since found out online and from help from the guys on this forum and other that there is in fact a TSB (technical service bulletin) released by Ford documenting which cars are affected and saying what I had been told about the injectors ending in 3.

The TSB is TSB 27/2012 dated 14/05/12 and affects 1.8L Duratorq-TDCi (Lynx) engines between 2008/2009. It affects the Focus, Mondeo, C-Max, Transit connect and Tourneo. The title of the bulletin is "Excessive combustion noise and or hesitation during light load acceleration with the engine at high operating temperature". I don’t believe I can post the bulletin in full due to copyright however I can pm this to anyone interested. The bulletin states that there are PCM calibrations released to try and help the injector nozzle performance however Ford failed to tell me about the TSB or the PCM calibrations once in all the times my car was in for diagnostics. I have raised a complaint with Ford regarding this however they are unwilling to replace the parts at their cost, I have told them I am willing to pay for the labour however I don’t feel I should foot the bill for the parts given they were fitted from brand new faulty. I have so far got them to discount the price from £1500 to £1100 then recently a further 30% off this price. Still not happy as still leaves me with a £6-£700 bill to replace faulty parts they fitted.

I would advised contacting Mark Ovende via this email address - movende1@ford.com He is the MD at Ford Motor Company. Mark will not respond however you will get a call back from the Ford Head Office. I was initially told they wouldn’t do anything however after continuous emails and phone called I have got them to discount the total initial quote by around 50%.

It appears Ford are doing whatever they can to not tell customers about this issue so they have to pay out a fortune to replace parts that were not fit for purpose. Ford should issue a recall as this affects a lot of cars and is potentially dangerous. The fact they are not even telling customers there is a PCM update which could help is shocking, the go straight for the replacements instead. A free or £95 PCM update or £1500 to replace all 4 injectors....... disgusting.

I want to try let as many people know about this as I can so they dont get lied to and forced into spending thousands when a PCM update might fix it. Ford should replace these parts at their cost not the customers regardless of warranty on the car.

This whole situation has put me off buying another Ford especially from the dealerships I have dealt with.

Regards

Allister

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Have you tried trading standards and vosa if a car can cut out in the middle of say a motorway with a known fault from manufacture surely they would be liable for any injuries and damage caused and god forbid the ultimate price .

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I have tried via Fords head office repeatedly however they dont care i raised it during the warranty period. The lady from the complaints team in a round a bout way said its the dealerships fault as they should have raised it with the customer care team, thanks that helps me now how????

Well I have spoke to VOSA about it but they dont seem to think the issue is for them to look at as he said a misfire is a warning to pull over. I disagree as its mirfiring due to below standard parts causing potential saftey issues.

I have contacted my citezens advise, they said the below: please not it says my mother as she had the car from new and I now have taken over the ownership so inital reports to Ford were in her name.

"Your mother may be able to make a claim against the trader who sold her the car, under her statutory rights as a consumer.
The
Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that when you buy goods from a trader
they should be of satisfactory quality. This means that they should be
free from faults, last a reasonable
length of time, be fit for the purpose they are made and be safe.


In this case,

if the vehicle is faulty due to the problems with the injectors, your
mother may argue that the trader is in breach
of this legislation since the goods can be argued as being not of a
satisfactory quality. Your mother would look for the trader to supply a
suitable remedy within a reasonable time. This remedy is usually
repair, replacement or refund. If the repair has
already been undertaken, you may be looking for the trader to
contribute towards the repair costs. If the garage your mother returned
the vehicle to under warranty is not the same garage she purchased the
vehicle from, they may argue they were not given the
opportunity to provide a remedy, and this could potentially weaken your
argument.


Please note, when considering a claim relating to a second hand vehicle, factors such as the age and mileage

of the vehicle, the price paid, the nature of the fault and when the fault occurred may all be taken into account.
There are some vehicle faults that will occur as a result of
normal wear and tear on the vehicle over time and a trader may argue
that they are not legally liable for such faults."

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I think my car has this fault! How do I find out if mine r the faulty ones??? Please will you email/ pm me the info too.

Vee

Sent from my iPhone using Ford OC

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Mine are so rusty you cant see anything, cant believe how rusty all the components are under the bonnet of a car with 52K on the clock.

Ford have told me the new injectors end in the number 5. Apparently the original injectors were made by Siemens however Siemens have since sold off this branch to VDO. I contacted VDO but they didn't seem aware of the issue. I tweeted Siemens however they just stated the information about VDO now owning that division.

I wonder how many people have been affected by this fault and how many customers have paid Ford over £1000 to replace them?

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Note to newby (I've already been in contact with pezza371887) - my injector codes end in 3 (1.8 TDCi 09) and I had one fail after intermittent problems, but car has done 146k miles so not that bad. I'm not defending Ford but I would hesitate to agree these are necessarily 'faulty injectors'. As the Americans say "your mileage may vary" :-) so actually what is your mileage?

Ford dealer replaced the faulty injector, with a 'new' one ending in 2, then straight away another injector failed, this was also replaced with one ending in 2 by another garage. Now wondering about having calibrations updated as this hasn't been done.

Something that caused me some confusion, and I think I've resolved - I believe the Siemens injectors on cars built from around 2006 onwards are NOT individually coded, but the PCM does have calibrations set for them. I am interested whether they can be set differently for each injector as I have mix of xxxxx2 and xxxxx3 injectors now. Not expecting a reply on that one on this forum...

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i've emailed ForScan about this, (their application can re-calibrate the MK1 1.8 tdci injectors) and they have told me that there is no coding required:

Hello,

Focus Mk1 TDCi has Delphi fuel equipment that requires injector coding. Focus Mk2 1.8 TDCi has Siemens fuel equipment, that doesn't require injector coding. But if you replace ALL four injectors (not one or two but all four), Ford recommends to reset the Knock Sensor learned values. This service function is not implemented in FORScan yet (as nobody asked about it yet), but we can add it in one of neareset versions if you need it. Please let us know.

Regards,
FORScan Team

Resetting the Knock sensor learned values is not implmenented in their latest version

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@ Jim_C

I have had problems since I bought the car in feb of this year - it only had 34k on and now has about 40??? I described it as a hiccup - 1 single hiccup at 60mph/2000 revs when naturally decelerating - I took the engineer out in it with a Laptop connected and I couldn't get the !Removed! thing to do it!!!!! They said if I have any problems with it to take it back - I have spoken to trading standards for advice when the warranty was coming to an end who said there was nothing to worry about - the garage had accepted the car back twice to fix it - I got my wheels rebalanced the first time and the second time they replaced the fuel filter (and both times cleaned the car ) but still the fault is there!!

If I can go in and say these injectors are known to be faulty I will sit it out till they sort it!!!! I know someone who will look at the injectors for me next week then I'll be on the phone!!!! Tbh it doesn't bother me that much - I have learnt to live with it but I'm guessing its likely that something else will go if I just leave it!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Ford OC

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I have tweeted Siemens about the injectors, see whether they respond. A friend tweeted them before however they just responded by saying they had sold the division to VDO.

Its interesting some Ford garages are still fitting injectors with the batch number 2 as from what I was told by my local dealership the new ones end in 5.

TBH I feel my focus is not fit for purpose, the injector issue is not the only safety concern I have had with this vehicle. I have also suffered from the wink wink uncommon wink wink glow plug wiring melting. You can see the pictures of this on another thread I posted at some point. This almost sent my car up in flames and has actually caused this in other peoples focus's on here. This is also being investigated by VOSA currently. This with the dodgy injector batch with causes hiccups and loss of power without warning has made me loose all faith in my Focus and also Ford as a car manufacture.

Ford are aware of both of these issues however they will not recall the vehicles or fix the issues when raised. I had a bill for almost £600 to replace the wiring loom and now they want another £1500 for faulty injectors they fitted from new..... what a joke.

I hope that by raising these concerns on this forum more of you will complain to Ford and make them aware this is affecting a lot of owners and were not happy to foot the bill for their faulty parts. I would keep emailing Mark at the email address above until Ford start listening to their customers.

When I went into my local dealership when I initially complained about the injectors the customer services director had the cheek to ask me whether I would trade it in for a new Ford.... errrr no fix this one first.

Words fail me with the customer service from Ford, not sure I will be buying another

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i've emailed ForScan about this, (their application can re-calibrate the MK1 1.8 tdci injectors) and they have told me that there is no coding required:

Hello,

Focus Mk1 TDCi has Delphi fuel equipment that requires injector coding. Focus Mk2 1.8 TDCi has Siemens fuel equipment, that doesn't require injector coding. But if you replace ALL four injectors (not one or two but all four), Ford recommends to reset the Knock Sensor learned values. This service function is not implemented in FORScan yet (as nobody asked about it yet), but we can add it in one of neareset versions if you need it. Please let us know.

Regards,

FORScan Team

Resetting the Knock sensor learned values is not implmenented in their latest version

We're agreed that Siemens injectors do not require/have individual coding. However, setting ECM calibrations (as covered by Ford TSB 27/2012) is a different matter and is relevant to these injectors.

@ pezza371887 - re latest ones being xxxxx5 - that may be the case but actually we want the correct injector versions for our 2008/2009 models, not the latest ones, so i'm happy with xxxxx2 in principle. But if the calibrations can only be set in the PCM for either xxxxx2 or xxxxx3 for all 4 injectors it gives people like me a problem where I have a mix of the two types.

@ Newby - good luck sitting it out, if all you're getting is the odd hiccup I don't think they'll be doing £2400 (at full/inflated main dealer price) worth of work for free

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Hey James,

Totally agree it's a problem when you have a mix which bring me back to the original issue at Ford should be replacing them all.

The way they are trading forces us to do all 4 as I have only had error codes on 2 cylinders however all my injectors end in 3. So in theory you could replace the 2 that have given errors then down the line the other 2 play up.

What Ford are not counting on is us finding out about the Tsb. Out of all of us on here I haven't seen anyone say Yea I took my car to ford with this issue and they told me about the tsb. No they just say your injectors are faulty and you have to replace them all.

My advise to everyone on here is email Mark. The more people that complain the more chance Ford we listen to us.

Allister

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The problem here is that the TSB hasn't been a common occurrence, as you said it only affects cars between 2008-09, which is why there hasn't been a recall.

The TSB also mentions about a PCM update, is this something you have already done?

My Injectors are starting to play up too (im on 138k) and the diesel specialist i go to said he will be sending the injectors off to be tested and they only replace the faulty injectors, not the whole set.

if you cannot get any further with the warranty side of the discussion, I dont think you will get very far by asking for a free replacement, its similar to the issues with Dual Mass Flywheels which some cars can be destroyed less than 100k.

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I know it only affects cars in a year range however I imagine this runs into the thousands when you see the TSB effects the Focus, C-MAX, Mondeo and Transit Connect.

I have had the PCM applied only after I found out about it and raised the issue with Ford. The applied it free of charge only after countless arguements with the Ford head office. I have had a 2 hickups since the update which leads me to think its still not resolved the issue.

Ford are going down the route that because all 4 of mine end in '3' they need replacing, even though I only faults on 2 they are saying the others will more than likely go so do them all.

I wouldnt be surprised if it only affects a number of injectors ending in '3' and not all of them, there was obviously a bad batch which they have correlated into the batch ending 3.

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@ IINexusII - will be very interested what they find with your injectors. I'm not tempted to have my working ones taken out...

I've not had PCM update done yet, not sure about it with my "mixed batches".

The thing I was most unhappy with was that injector 1 failed immediately after injector 2 was replaced (by Ford main dealer). The failure was confirmed by another independent garage who then changed no. 1 (2nd failure). And also that they didn't do the PCM update as part of the £580 injector change.

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@ IINexusII - Also very interested to see what the actual faults are with the injectors as I havnt been able to find any actual infor on whats wrong with this batch of injectors.

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Evening All,

My piece of !Removed! focus went into limp mode, "Engine Malfunction" 4 times this evening after doing a 35 miles motorway journey on the M27/M3. The car did the first one after getting off the motorway and then driving up a semi steep hill. Pulled over turned ignition off waited and cleared so carried on.

Repeated the process 4 times all in all getting home in a 1-2 miles stretch from the motorway to my house. Have taken a little vid on my phone of noise and dash so will upload to youtube and post on here so other can see what happens.

Question to you others that suffer from "engine malfunction" errors, do you get the orange light in the vid which I believe is stability control come up?

Allister

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Hey Guys,

Hers some more pictures, also found an error on the ABS. Do the Idle readings and ones sat at 2K RPM look right?

Focus Live Data 2K RPM

Focus Live Data Idle

Focus Cluster DTC Codes

Focus ABS DTC Codes

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That's how mine went like, however, I suspect all the visible/audible symptoms (one injector/cylinder disabled?) are just standard 'limp home mode' (i.e. engine protecting itself) including the ABS/traction control light. The codes are different to mine, which were P1202 and later P1201.

Something I've just remembered reading about before is a possible issue with the wiring once the engine warms up and maybe some insulation melts or something else happens, try looking it up just in case. Yours is showing "open circuit" error so a chance it could be a bad connector or faulty wire? As people have said, your mileage is very low for injectors to have worn out.

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Hi James,

I had thought the same myself. Ford told me they had tested the loom last time it was in for diagnostics.

The car in very low mileage for 4 injectors to wear however with the TSB there must be some underlying issue here.

I think from memory I have now had codes on cylinder 1,2 and 3 on different occasions, just 4 to play up now.

Will be keeping the f-super2 lead in the glove box.

Wish me luck on the way to work.

Regards

Allister

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