I don't see any harm in using lights during the day - motorbike and volvo style for example.

Anything that increases your visibility on the road is a good thing as far as I'm concerned - however, it's certainly not essential.

I didnt mean that they cause harm, was just trying to point out that its totally unnecessary. Also thats its not correct practice to have lights on in clear daylight. Maybe if its dim with storm clouds or heavy rain then yes: put them on!

I didnt mean that they cause harm, was just trying to point out that its totally unnecessary. Also thats its not correct practice to have lights on in clear daylight. Maybe if its dim with storm clouds or heavy rain then yes: put them on!

... or let the car decide.

Jonny, no offence, but you really don't know what you are talking about re the lights.

... or let the car decide.

Exactly :) and trust me it wont stick your lights on in clear daylight!

Jonny, no offence, but you really don't know what you are talking about re the lights.

erm.. what?

All I've said is that lights are not necessary in broad daylight.

You now need to tell me why I'm wrong.

I'm open minded, so if you give me a legitimate reason then chances are I will change my mind.

so go for it FMC!

erm.. what?

All I've said is that lights are not necessary in broad daylight.

You now need to tell me why I'm wrong.

I'm open minded, so if you give me a legitimate reason then chances are I will change my mind.

so go for it FMC!

They are necessary to be seen with - exactly the reason why daytime running lights are being made compulsory for new cars from next year.

When driving on a motorway statistics will show that a car travelling with headlights on is far more likely to be seen by a car in front than a car without lights, and this will often prevent accidents when drivers fail to notice a car approaching in the outer lane and pull out into the path of that car to overtake. The lights will catch the eye of all drivers, whether they are looking in a mirror, or facing an oncoming car (or truck, bike, bus, etc)

So for that reason, they are absolutely necessary, It's about safety! :)

They are necessary to be seen with - exactly the reason why daytime running lights are being made compulsory for new cars from next year.

When driving on a motorway statistics will show that a car travelling with headlights on is far more likely to be seen by a car in front than a car without lights, and this will often prevent accidents when drivers fail to notice a car approaching in the outer lane and pull out into the path of that car to overtake. The lights will catch the eye of all drivers, whether they are looking in a mirror, or facing an oncoming car (or truck, bike, bus, etc)

So for that reason, they are absolutely necessary, It's about safety! :)

If its broad daylight then you can see cars easily enough, if they put their lights on you can still see them. no difference really. What "statistics" are you pointing to exactly or are you making that up to support your flimsy argument? If you look for the cars you will see them regardless of wether they have their lights on or not.

Still not sold on this one FMC. sorry...

I love how you feel the need to highlight certain words to emphasise them lol

I'm not bothered that you are not sold on it, i'm not expecting you to buy into it. As for statistics, these have been mentioned to me on safety and advanced driving courses, but i don't have sources to quote, so i concede on that point. I'm sure if i, or even you were to look, you'd find them.

It's is a fact though, like i've mentioned when referring to the DRL legislation from next year. Next time you see any car with DRLs or headlights on during the day, just think how much easier they are to notice!

Another stat for you (unfounded again though) - silver cars have more accidents than any other colour car, becasue of the fact they blend into the background a lot easier, other drivers don't see them! :P

I always thought that was dark green cars but can see how it could be silver ones.

Interesting about the DRLs - didn't know it was becoming mandatory.

I always thought that was dark green cars but can see how it could be silver ones.

Same reason Man Utd claimed to not see their players when wearing "that" infamous grey kit when they got stuffed by Southampton.

They are necessary to be seen with - exactly the reason why daytime running lights are being made compulsory for new cars from next year.

When driving on a motorway statistics will show that a car travelling with headlights on is far more likely to be seen by a car in front than a car without lights, and this will often prevent accidents when drivers fail to notice a car approaching in the outer lane and pull out into the path of that car to overtake. The lights will catch the eye of all drivers, whether they are looking in a mirror, or facing an oncoming car (or truck, bike, bus, etc)

So for that reason, they are absolutely necessary, It's about safety! :)

Whilst I accept your point I wonder once every car has DRL whether this might lessen the ‘stand out’ effect during ‘normal’ day light.

I’m also concerned whereas currently bikers using their headlights stand out

But will motorbikes once again become invisible amongst all those cars with DRL?

Whilst I accept your point I wonder once every car has DRL whether this might lessen the 'stand out' effect during 'normal' day light.

I'm also concerned whereas currently bikers using their headlights stand out

But will motorbikes once again become invisible amongst all those cars with DRL?

I suppose there may be some effect of all cars being the same, but a bright light on anything moving is definitely a good thing for visibility IMO (to be seen with, rather than to see with)

sorry all for starting an argument back there...if it was me....

As to Johnny, I expect you had some old bloke teach you to drive who became an instructor back in the day...its sad to say but many don't keep up wit current reg's and training...thats not me saying that, thats the DIA and DVLA!!!

There is NO problem with having lights on during the day...I do same on me bike...

But the statistics do show its better with...like yellow cars get hit less than other colours.

I think the DLR lights will just be sidelights...motorbikers are trained to use headlights (dipped).

and as to reducing accidents....why do I even bother...an accidental thump from a fist won't kill someone are paralyze them or take a parent away from their children...having an accident in your car coz your brain is on thinking on other things will.

If you are focusing on what needs be, lights, wipers, speed, signals, mirrors etc, then you don't have the oppotunity to take your focus off the road (excuse the pun to all Focus owners!! he he!)

:)

anyone fancy going back to topic????

Electrics are a convenience factor, make no bones about it.

I wouldn't say they are pointless though! Winding down a window while driving could be tricky - one-touch windows are far easier. Central locking on a three door ... in the rain? My passenger doesn't want to get wet waiting for me to get in and pull the handle. Other people drive my car from time to time, so electric mirrors (heated too) are fine by me. Power steering is great for heavy cars and performing tight turns at slower speeds - I'd never want to have a car without it.

Personal preference really - people do indeed seem misled by "auto" equipment, which can be frustrating (more so if you are a dealer I bet!).

I can see your point if there are multiple drivers with the mirrors but what's wrong with opening the door for your passenger first which is simply good manners and negates the need for central locking?

I can see your point if there are multiple drivers with the mirrors but what's wrong with opening the door for your passenger first which is simply good manners and negates the need for central locking?

Well while I'm sure my GF would be very grateful, she'd call me a tit for being the one that gets wet.

Do you open the door for your passenger first, then get in? Or rather, get in, and make your passenger wait in the rain? Central locking is a god-send!

Same reason Man Utd claimed to not see their players when wearing "that" infamous grey kit when they got stuffed by Southampton.

Yet Liverpool managed to win the league when their second strip was silver. ;)

I can see your point if there are multiple drivers with the mirrors but what's wrong with opening the door for your passenger first which is simply good manners and negates the need for central locking?

If I wanted a job as a chauffeur I'd get one. I wouldn't dare patronise anybody by feeling the need to do such a simple task as opening a door.

If I wanted a job as a chauffeur I'd get one. I wouldn't dare patronise anybody by feeling the need to do such a simple task as opening a door.

I’m also concerned whereas currently bikers using their headlights stand out

But will motorbikes once again become invisible amongst all those cars with DRL?

I remember back in the day when I had a small motorbike reading the bikers magazines and there was a lot of concern regarding daylight running lights.

Basically there was scientific evidence that the human eye cannot easily define the speed, shape and motion of an object that is shining a light into it. What this means is you are more likely to see it, but you're less likely to correctly judge how far away they are, and how fast they are going because of the light.

I've not heard much about it since though.

I remember back in the day when I had a small motorbike reading the bikers magazines and there was a lot of concern regarding daylight running lights.

Basically there was scientific evidence that the human eye cannot easily define the speed, shape and motion of an object that is shining a light into it. What this means is you are more likely to see it, but you're less likely to correctly judge how far away they are, and how fast they are going because of the light.

I've not heard much about it since though.

Good point! It's far easier to judge a vehicles speed with its lights off.

Good point! It's far easier to judge a vehicles speed with its lights off.

What a load of nonsense!!

And FWIW, it is proven that no matter how experienced a person is, it is not possible to accurately judge the speed of a vehicle coming towards you (with or without lights!)

"When every road user has their lights on, motorbikes are less likely to catch a drivers eye, especially when changing lanes or filtering. It's legislation drawn up entirely with cars in mind" Quote I read by Colin Overland who's the editor of Ride magazine to anyone who cares, RoSPA are also concerned about motorcyclists with the new DRL rules. Personally I think it's a good idea if it provides the reduction in accidents that have been forecast. I'm sure that there's something else that motorbikes could do to stand out amoungst a few LED's?!

Also, I was always taught that sidelights were solely parking lights and that if you deem it to be dark enough to necessitate the lights being on then you should got straight to dipped headlights? Or was that just me because no-one else seems to do that.

Piggy, I take your point over focusing on the road. I don't necessarily believe it, but I understand it. I think like many things, these features are a double edged sword from whichever perspective you're looking at it. Personally though I like these features, and I could certainly never give up central locking, I remember when I was a kid having to wait for my dad to get in the car and pull the 'snib' up before I could get in... how !Removed! annoying in the rain that was. :D

What a load of nonsense!!

And FWIW, it is proven that no matter how experienced a person is, it is not possible to accurately judge the speed of a vehicle coming towards you (with or without lights!)

Its perspective. The closer you are to something the bigger it gets, if it is obscured behind a light source you can't judge the size, thus how far away it is

The faster then increase in size, the faster the speed of the vehicle. It doesn't matter what the speed is, as you would also then need to know its exact distance to work out how soon it would be with you. What matters is how quickly something comes towards you.

Think about it, when you see a bike in your mirror you dont start doing maths based on distance and speed to work out how much time it will take him to get to you - because you dont know the speed or the distance. What you do is percieve the size of the bike, then when the image has doubled in size it has covered half the distance. ie: you dont have a clue how fast he is going on the bike, but you do know how long it will take him to overtake you. based on that you know wether or not its safe to pull out.

Edit: sorry I have highlighted words again, I forgot you dont like it, honest :)

lol

Also, I was always taught that sidelights were solely parking lights and that if you deem it to be dark enough to necessitate the lights being on then you should got straight to dipped headlights? Or was that just me because no-one else seems to do that.

My driving instructor told me exactly the same thing.