Supercharger Or Turbo?

[n4th4n1993]

Hi, this has probably been asked before but i have a 1.8 focus zetec s 2010 and i just want more power out of it whats the best thing to do supercharger or turbo it? Also i cant afford a ST because the insurance is too high as im only 20. Thank you :)

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[bry0586]

once you declare that your car is turbo'd/supercharged surely your insurance will shoot up anyway, possibly even more than getting an ST because its modified from standard?

[salsheikh]

i'd stick to just a nice looking car for now until your insurance comes down. then get an st170 (mk1) or an ST (mk2/2.5) and enjoy it properly.

[jeebowhite]

Agree entirely. You can double your insurance at the mention of adding a turbo, you go super and you can triple it.

[bry0586]

as said id stick with just a nice looking smaller engine car, build up your ncb for a few years :) ive got 10 years ncb and still paying alot for my 1.6 tdci, i do live in the ghetto though haha

[martyntdci]

here

:-

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi, this has probably been asked before but i have a 1.8 focus zetec s 2010 and i just want more power out of it whats the best thing to do supercharger or turbo it? Also i cant afford a ST because the insurance is too high as im only 20. Thank you :)

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Hi,

If you wanted an insurance quotation for this type of modification then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[n4th4n1993]

But if i wanted to put a turbo on my car could i use the one of a diesel or is it completely different?

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[mecmark]

first off dude i like where your coming from but unfortunately your engine block is not equipped to take a turbo there's no oil feed port or drain to the sump. !Removed! loads of work oil pump up-grade intercooler & hoses not forgetting to mention you will have to remap the ecm n possibly change the head gasket to lower the compression ratio etc

honestly if you wanna go fast buy a car with a powerful engine n grin

[n4th4n1993]

Ahh that sucks :/

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[Rick984]

I have looked into doing this myself and got as far as getting quotes. Have a look at these guys http://baileyperformance.co.uk/?p=228 they said they'd do mine for approx 3.5k

[Rick984]

http://baileyperformance.co.uk/?p=228

[n4th4n1993]

Just a quick question would an turbo from an ecoboost turbo fit on my car or is it a complete different engine all together?

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[b1g_dav3]

Any turbo will fit on any car so long as there is space, a turbo is just a turbo. The main task is making manifolds, oil lines, etc.

[n4th4n1993]

Ahh right cheers mate :)

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[FOCA]

With a supercharger you may get less lag (if set up properly) but tends to have less potential power than a turbo - so its used where instant response is more important than ultimate power (eg - sprint races etc)

A turbocharger is basically the same as a supercharger but the supercharger is a belt- driven compressor (directly off the engine, hence less lag, but has parasitic losses ) and the turbocharger is basically a compressor driven from the exhaust of the engine via a shaft, it needs the ehhaust pressure to build up hence more lag but -

Because the turbocharger utilizes the waste heat/ power from the exhaust, it is more efficient so can produce more potential power + better economy than a supercharger - thats why most car manufacturers favor turbochargers over superchargers and there is a lot of development of turbochargers and not so much superchargers -

they both force more air at a higher pressure into the engine - producing more power

I agree you are probably better off waiting a bit for / saving up for an ST or the like

[troy45]

My brother took me through the pro's and con's of each when he was helping a mate decide what package they were going for on a Hayabusa drag bike being built.

Supercharger - Boosts even at idle speeds so lot less lag, on the other hand this can also make starts harder to control as you're getting a lot of boost at lower revs

Mechanically driven which can make it difficult to incorporate into an engine not originally designed for this. Plus of course this introduces power losses taken up driving the supercharger through belts etc. More difficult to vary boost characteristics, typically achieved by physically changing pulley ratios.

Turbocharger - pretty much the opposite to the pro's and cons of the s/c - more lag low down, can be addressed with smaller turbo but then this sacrifices top end performance. no mechanical drag like on a s/c but of course you often need a lot of plumbing both exhaust and inlet to get the system installed. Lot easier to vary boost performance with software through boost controller etc. Also a lot more choice of kits available, while that doesn't always mean they're better (i.e. VHS vs betamax) it saves the pain and expense of being a guinea pig for a less well developed package.

Course for oem applications there will be more advanced systems & controls which eliminate some of the drawbacks/compromises and I've probably not covered everything.

Turbo won in the case of the Busa if you hadn't already guessed ;)

[FOCA]

My brother took me through the pro's and con's of each when he was helping a mate decide what package they were going for on a Hayabusa drag bike being built.

Supercharger - Boosts even at idle speeds so lot less lag, on the other hand this can also make starts harder to control as you're getting a lot of boost at lower revs

Mechanically driven which can make it difficult to incorporate into an engine not originally designed for this. Plus of course this introduces power losses taken up driving the supercharger through belts etc. More difficult to vary boost characteristics, typically achieved by physically changing pulley ratios.

Turbocharger - pretty much the opposite to the pro's and cons of the s/c - more lag low down, can be addressed with smaller turbo but then this sacrifices top end performance. no mechanical drag like on a s/c but of course you often need a lot of plumbing both exhaust and inlet to get the system installed. Lot easier to vary boost performance with software through boost controller etc. Also a lot more choice of kits available, while that doesn't always mean they're better (i.e. VHS vs betamax) it saves the pain and expense of being a guinea pig for a less well developed package.

Course for oem applications there will be more advanced systems & controls which eliminate some of the drawbacks/compromises and I've probably not covered everything.

Turbo won in the case of the Busa if you hadn't already guessed ;)

Agreed - but you have missed some important points out - the power requirements of the supercharger are high, the parasitic losses are significant enough to reduce the power output of the engine -

Working on a project and considering supercharging/ turbocharging, two appkications that were studied were the A series Vizard -tuned turbo and supercharged versions, and the g40 and g60 engines, on the turbocharged A-series, it produced significantly more top-end power than the supercharged version, on the g-60 the power loss of the supercharger was a significant 18HP (so everything being equal, 18hp less than a turbo could produce)

so the turbo has more power potential than a supercharger

top - fueller dragster still use supercharges, though, the instant response and lack of lag is a big advantage in drag racing, the massive slicks can take care of the torque at low revs and the gearing is optomised (often, they only use 2 gears) to take advantage of the wide power/ torque band - i would say turbocharging is best fore most applications/ people, and supercharging is a bit specialized, for certain applications

high-octane fuel or reducing the compression ratio may be required to prevent detonation, utherwise the boost may need to be reduced (which may make the whole exersize pointless - as you would have the cost/ hassle but not the full benifits/ potential)

[troy45]

top - fueller dragster still use supercharges, though, the instant response and lack of lag is a big advantage in drag racing, the massive slicks can take care of the torque at low revs and the gearing is optomised (often, they only use 2 gears) to take advantage of the wide power/ torque band - i would say turbocharging is best fore most applications/ people, and supercharging is a bit specialized, for certain applications

high-octane fuel or reducing the compression ratio may be required to prevent detonation, utherwise the boost may need to be reduced (which may make the whole exersize pointless - as you would have the cost/ hassle but not the full benifits/ potential)

Fair points there - for the dragsters they'll have the advantage of a lot more grip than a bike would have so they can get that huge amount of power down rather quickly :o

There's obviously street kits which are just bolt-on jobs using standard engine set-up but like you say to maximise the benefits you're looking at lots more boost and that'll mean lower compression as the turbo is in effect already raising the compression ratio for you.

Have helped out with volume calculations when bro has been building an engine and got a desired CR and need to work out how best to achieve that.

Thicker head gasket in some cases but this is also the weakest part of the combustion chamber so not always desirable, lower compression pistons, raising the cylinder block (unless it's integrated into the upper crankcase) and so on. In theory you're then also increasing squish measurement beyond it's ideal but in some cases when he's had to rescue a turbo motor built (badly) elsewhere bigger squish hasn't actually actually lowered performance that much when thicker head gasket has been the only option. Paying someone to do all this for you is where that 'bolt on' kit starts getting a lot more complicated. And expensive!