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Mk2 2.0 Zetec Engine Woes?


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#1 Blackie_No1

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

Do these engines use a hydraulic tappet system? Think I have a sticking tappet which is causing my misfire


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#2 Blackie_No1

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:45 PM

I've just found out that the '98 on models used the Zetec-R engine which used conventional shim-type tappets in place of the hydraulic tappets used on the Zetec-E engines as used on the '93-'98 models


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#3 Blackie_No1

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:01 PM

Further to the above it seems my car was built in '98 and registered '99 so my car has the Zetec-E engine with the hydraulic tappets.


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#4 BOF

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:50 PM

What is the symptom that you are getting, and when does it happen?



#5 Blackie_No1

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:46 AM

Ticking noise from top of engine, No.3 cylinder misfire on and off, lack of power until at about 5k revs, then it's like a turbo kicks in, then as long as you push the engine hard between hear changes the power is still there.


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#6 BOF

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:03 PM

Could also be a high voltage breakdown, so have a look at the underbonnet area in a pitch black condition (as you'll see if the leads are breaking down) and could also be the coil pack.

 

If it genuinely is a sticking tappet, then it gets messier. You seem to be saying stuff is wrong at low rpm and it is ok  at high rpm (is it really the case that the ticking noise goes when the power kicks in - you don't say).

 

This would be the case if oil pressure took a long time to come up, and that could be bad oil, or, maybe your engine is junk (if the oil pressure doesn't come up fully 'till ~5000 rpm, the big ends are probably history - it could also be that the valves have not been returning to their seats, leading to one or more valves or their seats burning out - this would lead to a lack of power at low rpm, but would at least be the kind of thing that could be cured for a reasonable cost and a fair amount of sweat - it would also lead to a loss of fuel economy, as would anything where the valves don't seat correctly).

 

Given that some of the things that it could be are quite serious, you might want to ensure that you've got good fresh oil and maybe even a can of the 'hydraulic tappet' additive from Wynns. This kind of engine surgery is quite a pain, and you don't want to indulge in it unless you are certain and there is no alternative.



#7 Blackie_No1

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:44 PM

The ticking doesn't go away at high revs, and today it didn't come onto all four cylinders at high revs :(

It only looses cylinder no.3, oh and I've fitted a new coil pack, leads and plugs!!


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#8 BOF

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:13 AM

Well, it does now sound like grit in one of the hydraulic lifters, presuming that the work on the coil pack leads and plugs has eliminated the possibility of a problem there.

 

When was the last oil change, what oil was used and did it change at all then? In any case, nice clean new oil is worth trying, but if oil and maybe oil additives doesn't work, it will probably be 'off with its head'.



#9 Blackie_No1

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:22 AM

Don't know when the oil was last changed, looks fairly black, admittedly it was just below the low mark on the dipstick when I brought her home (I've only had it a few days, got it cheap cos I was cocky and was sure it was the coil pack) and I topped it up with all I had in the shed, which was 10w/40, which I know is too thick, but as I say I got it cheap because it was doing this and I was cocky thinking I could fix it on the cheap :(

First on the agenda today is as you advise is an oil change for the correct 5w/30, with an oil flush first and the valve additive also


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#10 BOF

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

...looks fairly black...

 

If you don't know the history (presumably, whatever paperwork doesn't detail the last service, or what oil was used), then you need to get the oil changed.

 

...admittedly it was just below the low mark on the dipstick when I brought her home (I've only had it a few days, got it cheap cos I was cocky and was sure it was the coil pack) and I topped it up with all I had in the shed, which was 10w/40, which I know is too thick...

 

I would definitely say don't use 10w/40. I've topped up a v6 with 5w/40 (and that's a viscosity allowed, as a top up, in the manual) and that was too thick, cold. Now, 5w is the same nominal cold viscosity as standard, but the tappets still pumped up and the car wouldn't start in colder weather (to be fair, it did look thicker at ambient temperature, but the manual did suggest it would be ok, but it wasn't, and I wasn't using as much as you would have used). 

 

Now, in that case, once you had got it started, even for a minute or two, it was ok, because that thinned the oil enough, but winter starting could be a real pig.

 

The right oil isn't that expensive; Halfords had an offer on their 4 litre packs recently (not sure if that's now gone totally, or perhaps my local has just run out of stock); someone like this lot should have a Ford-spec oil reasonably cheaply (there are places that have ford-branded oil cheaply, but you'll need a search for that, because i can't remember who; also, even someone like Asda have a fully synth oil quite cheaply).

 

My only questions are:

  • are you going to change the oil once or twice: if you were going for twice, to flush it, you'd probably go for the cheapest stuff you could find that met the spec for the first change
  • what about the 'lifters' stuff; I'd try just the oil first, but if you were in a hurry to get it going, you might try throwing everything at it


#11 Blackie_No1

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:12 PM

I've just thrown everything at it, flushed the oil, replaced it and filter using 5w/30, and then added the lifter stuff and still the same, I really think it's head off time :(


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#12 BOF

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:12 AM

Just need to clarify - when I said off with its head, I was being a bit flippant, in that you may be able to do what you want by removing the cam cover. And when you look inside, it could be a collapsed follower, it could be a badly damaged cam lobe or it could be a knackered valve guide, or even a spring with a dropped coil - you won't know until you have a look.

 

If you want, you can probably locate the problem a bit more accurately before you take the cam cover off with the old 'screwdriver stethoscope' trick. using the big plastic handle against your ear, by trying the business end of the screwdriver against various positions on the cam cover, you can probably narrow down the location down to the cylinder and whether it is an inlet or an exhaust valve that is at issue. If the cam cover is coming off anyway, maybe this is of limited use, but it can confirm what you think is going on.



#13 Blackie_No1

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:23 AM

I forgot about that stethoscope model!! Lol, it's been 18yrs since I've seen it in action lol.

Yea will give that a go today, if not then yea lift the cam cover off


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#14 Blackie_No1

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:04 PM

Cam cover off, seen the two lifters on the exhaust side of cylinder 3, we're not touching the cam, pumped the up and down for a while until they were touching the cam, ran on all four cylinders for a while, took it a run and then it dropped no.3 cylinder again :(


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#15 BOF

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

OK, at least we are somewhat clear what we are dealing with now. There are still two possibilities though:

 

What you describe is classic 'tappet collapse' (it could have been 'pump up', but this is the opposite). normally you'd expect that the hydraulic lifters had worn, and oil was just passing through them so fast that they would just 'deflate' as soon as they came under pressure. The alternative -usually, less likely- explanation is that one of the oilways has got clogged, and there is no oil supply to the tappets.

 

Now, as these are two tappets together, there is a distinct possibility that there is one oilway that feeds the two tappets and if that is clogged, then that is one explanation for the two problems, and that might be more likely than two completely separate problems. OTOH, if there is no oil feed to the two tappets, maybe that causes the two tappets to fail, and there is still one root cause.

 

Did it look as if oil was seeping around the tappets (ie, there was an oil supply behind the tappets)? 



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