Bad First Car Buying Experience - Or The Norm?

[firstcar]

Hi everyone

I've just bought my first car and am really disappointed (and actually quite upset) with the whole experience. I really just wanted to find out if my experience was typical for a first time (female) car buyer.

Briefly, I went to my local "TrustFord" last Friday to browse. I was attentively attended to by a sales rep and ended up going on a test drive. I really liked the car but left without having left a deposit as I was not comfortable buying the first car I'd seen (and also wanted a friend, who knew about cars, to view it).

On Monday I went to look at other cars with my friend and early evening (5pm) was back at my local "TrustFord" for another test drive. This led to me wanting to purchase the car and a price was agreed, with the manager knocking off £300 off the stated price if I collected the car before the end of the month i.e. the following day. I agreed to this and the sales rep took various details from me to make an application for finance.

I was then presented with an "Order Form" which I was told by the sales rep the manager required I sign. I asked what this form was and was simply told it was an "Order Form". When I read the document, it was clear that it was a Contract.

At this point it was around 6.30pm and on the second page there were the terms and conditions. I said I would like to have a copy of the Contract so I could review the terms and conditions overnight and sign the following day. I was informed the manager did not agree to me taking a copy of the Contract home with me and required me to sign the Contract there and then.

I said I was not prepared to sign the Contract without having had the time to review the terms and also without knowing the finance would go through (although I would have paid cash if the finance had not gone through). There was then a stand-off with the sales rep reiterating the manager required me to sign there and then before the finance paperwork had gone through and did not agree to allowing me to take a copy of the Contract home. Is this intimidating and unethical behaviour common practice at Ford or elsewhere????

I am accept that as a female with very little knowledge of cars I am an easy target for sales reps but surely this is going too far especially for a company such as Ford?

Anyway, I stood my ground and left it with them that they would process the finance overnight and I would come in before 10am the following day to sign various papers.

My finance went through and I went into the dealership the following morning as agreed and signed up on the finance documents, after reading everything they put in front of me.

I left them on the basis that they may be able to process the finance paperwork that day and if they did so, the car would be available around 4 or 5pm that day for collection.

At 5.10pm I received a call from the dealership saying the car was ready to be collected. However, I was otherwise engaged by then as it had not been certain the car would have been ready to be collected and I had wasted most of the day hanging around in case it was ready earlier. I then received a call saying the manager basically demanded that I collect the car that day (they close at 6pm) and if I could not do that they would park it in my drive or leave it outside my house. None of these options were available for various reasons and I agreed to collect the car the following day.

Having collected the car, there are various aspects of it I am not happy with:

1. The paintwork touch up is visable and lumpy

2. There appear to be additional/new scratches on the car

3. There is dust, some grime and what looks like pet hair on the inside

4. The carpet on the passenger side is curling up

5. I was barley given enough petrol to get me to the nearest petrol station

Does anyone know what kind of standard I should expect the car to be handed over in?

Regarding the Contract, it was clear to me and my friend (who does know a lot about cars) that the intimidation/demands being made of me were coming from the manager and I believe the sales rep was not at fault here. The entire conversation took place right outside the manager's office and the sales rep was in and out of the manager's office. Further I was the only one in there at that time and it was quiet otherwise. It would be good to hear Ford owner's views on the above because as it stands, it is my opinion that the car has been delivered in an unsatisfactory state due to the manager's vindictiveness towards me due to me not having collected the car before the end of last month (and possibly because he was not able to bully me into signing the Contract).

I look forward to hearing!

[firstcar]

Sorry that ended up way longer than I had expected - and I missed out a few bits - like them agreeing to touch up the paint work such that it wouldn't be visable unless you knew it was there!

[Marks12]

first of all in my opinion you should have ripped the contract up and through it at the manager and went else wear. Second they aren't supposed to treat any customer no matter what there knowledge of cars is like they treated you. If Ford knew they had people like that treating there customers the way they treated you they would be out of a job before they could say boo. I am not sure how the system in England works but in Ireland there is an ombusman that with complaints like this it would be his job to investigate the matter further. Maybe you should contact a lawyer about this matter get some legal advice. If I was you i wouldnt agree to do the touch up myself i'd demand they do it. A car should be sold in an immaculate condition and anything that is wrong with it should be repaired or replaced.

I do hope you rang them up to let them know of your dissatisfaction with the way it was delivered too you. I know you think the sales rep wasnt at fault and it was just the manager but the sales rep could have done something about it he could of stepped up to the manager and told him/her to stop if he or she had a heart they wouldnt have allowed that to happen. In the eyes of a sales man there customers are number 1 with out them they wouldnt have an income. Im sitting here wondering if there is a fords complaints number you could ring too let ford know of your experience maybe write ford a letter. As for the contract i am not too sure about policies the ford have regarding there contracts but i dont see anything wrong with allowing you to read it at home

[jeebowhite]

Welcome to the family Sharmilla,

This post is long, but I hope its as informative as its long and I hope it offers you some confidence for your next encounter with these idiots.

First off, I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. I will say openly, that whilst dealers can be a bit heavy handed in persuasiveness to meet their criteria, I have only heard one other story worse than yours, and that was a bad one. I have heard a few, and so your situation as far as I am concerned is the second worst I have heard in my (perhaps few?) but 7 years of driving.

The tactics displayed by these people are exceptionally underhand, and whilst I agree there are circumstances of contract you agreed to, their attitudes and behaviours are anything but acceptable to anyone.

First off, you did agree to the discount of £300 if you were to collect the car the following day. That was in essence a verbal contract between you and the dealership, but those terms where made on the basis that all was signed and sealed the day before. This should have been accomodated, if not reiterated after the change of circumstances when you were unable to (unwilling - and rightly so!) signing the contract blind without a chance to read it. If they still wanted you to collect the car the following day after you signed the papers they should have made you aware this was still expected and should have allowed you the opportunity to make alternative arrangements to accomodate this agreement.

The fact they would not give you a copy of the contract to read overnight is not uncommon, however they should be willing to accept their behaviour in the matter was almost bullying you to buy that car, and that would I believe make any contract null and void. They should have allowed you sufficient time to review the contract, confirm your satisfaction and proceed with the purchase at a mutual pace. Their behaviour has directly violated the Unfair Trading Regulations of 2008. The behaviour you saw was a fairly clear example of Agressive Selling Techniques and you have rights under which you are protected.

The fact they then forced the car upon you with so little fuel is also unsatisfactory, that would (although not be an instant breach of any code of conduct) be seen as aggressive behaviour furthermore for the fact they are in essence punishing you as part of the purchase. This is standard trade etiquette, and whilst you dont expect a full tank of fuel, you should be given sufficient fuel so you can comfortably drive to a filling station and ensure you get enough fuel without worrying your about to break down at any moment.

with regards your point of concern:

1. The paintwork touch up is visable and lumpy - If they promised you the vehicle would be returned in a state you would barely notice the repairs, they have breached their agreement. I would be looking to get the repair done correctly and reasonably.

2. There appear to be additional/new scratches on the car - I would be questioning where these came from and why, whilst buying a used car you are not expected to recieve it in factory finish, but, you do expect the vehicle to be delivered as it was seen in the showroom. If you made notes of any scratches and can present these to the dealership, they should as a matter of course repair these. I will get onto this further shortly.

3. There is dust, some grime and what looks like pet hair on the inside - You would expect a higher standard from a dealership, whilst there are no rules on used car sales and the quality of any finish, you would expect the selling party to make more of an effort. I have had better experiences with a clean car from a back street garage selling a CAT - C vehicle, along with my latest purchase from an independant trader - who again offered a showroom finish on the car.

4. The carpet on the passenger side is curling up - This could be for a number of reasons, it may just need reseating, but again, its a detail they have failed to acknowledge so they could rush it through in order to make their quota and get more money in the bank.

5. I was barley given enough petrol to get me to the nearest petrol station - Again, you dont expect an unlimited supply, but you shouldnt be in a position you are worrying you are going to break down at any point.

The first thing I would be doing is calling up the dealership, identifying the name of the salesman and his manager. I would then be looking to ensure the service manager is a different person. If this guy was the service manager, skip to the next paragraph, otherwise - write a letter of complaint. Naming each individual in the process, giving details of timelines as to when you came to look at the car, the agreements that were made and the behaviour you experienced. Detail and explain that agreements where made based on your satisfactory signing of the contract at the time of the sale (i.e. the day before they asked you to collect it) and given you took this away to think further and turned up the next day to sign the contract, no one mentioned this was still affective. I would also state that you had a family emergency which meant you were unable to initially continue with the agreement at the time, and detail the aggressive phone calls recieved by the manager, and state you had to seperate from your family emergency due to the unnecessary and unfound agressive behaviour of the manager. In this letter you should also detail the additional complaints as I have commented above, detailing you wish for resolution to each of the affected area's and you expect this to be completed to a high quality and satisfactory finish, one expected and entitled to under the Ford Dealership name. State in writing that you wish to recieve a reply within 72 hours of the letter being recieved and also a letter detailing the steps to be made to rectify this situation. I would also be requesting additional compensation for the fact you were treat so badly and I would be asking for acts of good will from the service manager in order to keep your business, along witha full investigation into the behaviour exhibited by his employees, along with a satisfactory conclusion. Advise them that if they do not do this you will be rejecting the vehicle under the "Sale of Goods Act" due to an "unsatisfactory quality of goods and services" as was promised, along with the fact you know you were unfairly treated which you are protected under the "Unfair Trading Regulations 2008". I would then either post this via Royal Mail recorded, or hand deliver this to the manager and get him to sign a receipt of exchange for the letter, acknowledging the date and time at which you provided the letter to him. This will offer you later protection should you require it.

Should you find these are one and the same person, I would then skip that and send it straight onto Ford Head office. Contact their customer relations department (the details are under the general Ford Discussions forum), call them and explain the situation, follow it up with an email and/or letter as you would have sent above to the dealership Service Manager.

I can guarantee you, either way they will resolve the issue, and if they fail to do so, I would take the vehicle back and reject it, as either way you have given them sufficient notice. "The Dark Knight" on this forum is a solicitor specialising in consumer protection and he is a great guy. Dave will happily help anyone and I must admit I have asked him several questions over recent car purchases, and as far as a handy resoruce is concerned, its great to have him around! if you need advice on completing a rejection he will be able to detail exactly what rights you have, what section of the SOGA or UTR you need to quote as you politely shove the keys up the Service Managers southern orrifice to make sure you get all your money back, if not compensation for the manner in which you were treated.

To summarise,

> Contact the dealership, get the names of the salesman, the manager who was pressuring you and the service manager.

> Write an extremely detailed letter of complaint, even if you have to detail the rediculous tie the manager and salesman where wearing at the time of the disputes - the more detail you provide - the more it proves that you paid attention to the situation and it makes your argument stronger.

> Request contact within 72 hours, either verbal or a letter of reply (I would go for both!) detailing how they are going to make this right.

> State that an unsatisfactory reply will result in you contacting a solicitor for further advice on how you may reject the vehicle and recieve a full refund by means of the Sale Of Goods Act and the Unfair Trading Regulations protection offered.

Keep us in the loop, I want to see you wipe the floor with these guys :D

If you have any other questions, drop them below :)

[Maxxxykins]

Bought my first car and second car from a Trustford in Enfield, never got service like this. The guy I speak to (Kevin) is great, any questions he can answer them no issue, when I was looking at my titanium I noticed there was two paint chips, he got them sorted the same day and also the allows were kerbed and get that solved as well.

Usually they clean the whole car before giving it to you as well.. sounds like you've been mistreated if I'm honest!

[firstcar]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I cannot tell you how relieved I am to finally have some support in this car buying experience.

I have been in contact with Ford Head Office but have not found them particularly helpful, until this morning.

I initially contacted them last week prior to collecting the car (as I had anticipated issues) to see if they could arrange for the pre-collection checks to be done/re-done by another dealership. Whilst they were interested to hear of the intimidation (and they have made a note of this and I need to contact them with details for them to look into the matter) they were not much help with the other matters - the advisor saying he needed to speak to the sales manager I was complaining about to see if my concerns could be addressed! He said that if that manager refused to address my concerns there was nothing else I could do as the dealerships are franchises.

I spoke to them first thing this morning (not expecting to hear from anyone on this forum and certainly not so quickly! :-) ) and was again fobbed off with Head Office saying the standards cars are handed over are up to each franchise - which I find hard to believe! I was also told that as it was a used car it was sold in the condition the previous owner had supplied the car in and therefore that if it wasn't cleaned when they received it, I couldn't expect anything more when receiving it. When I asked if I should expect to buy a dirty car if, for example, the previous owner had used it to transport rubbish to a skip/been used as a builder's work car, I received no answer and was transferred to servicing and warranties!!!!!!!!

Fortunately the lady there was helpful and said I had been transferred straight to South Africa when I had called when I should have gone through to the UK customer service team and she put me through to them. Thankfully the UK based lady was also more helpful than the rest and whilst she was not able to say what Ford's general guidelines are for handing over cars, she did say I should raise the matter with the General Manager and also reluctantly said if he was not responsive to refer back to them and they would pursue the matter through other channels.

So I have sent an email to the General Manager basically setting out why I am unhappy with the state of the car and asking if I should expect used cars to be of this standard. I have also informed him I do not wish to deal with the sales manager as I am considering making a formal complaint against him. I await to hear.

James - your response is far more than I'd even hoped for - a real big thank you for your reply! :)) Ideally I would like to keep the car so I have decided to try and deal with both matters separately. I am also reluctant to lodge the formal complaint due to the situation this would put the sales staff in who seemed decent/ethical (another one made a comment which leads me to believe my experience was not un-common one there). At the same time I would like to do what I can to ensure other customers do not have to go through a similar experience. I will need to give it some thought.

I will keep you updated!

[jeebowhite]

Good luck and I wouldn't hold back on any complaint. As part of your complaint I would personally mention the salesman was seemingly only saying the words put in his mouth by the managers.

So the complaint, make it formal and they have to take it more seriously

[firstcar]

Noted. Thank you...

[Celticfan]

I wrote another thread about my treatment at the hands of TrustFord Eltham.

I actually found the car. I collected on Monday from TrustFord Alperton.

The difference in the two branches was amazing. Where as Eltham seriously mucked me about and lied to me from day one Alperton kept me happy. Test drove the car on the Friday, collected at the agreed time on the Monday. Manvir contacted me a couple of times over the weekend to make sure nothing would delay the collection.

Eltham have staff I wouldn't p**s on if they were on fire, Alperton I would recommend without hesitation.

Sharmila, , sorry you seemed to have caught a very poor bunch of staff at the Trustford site you went to. My car was serviced and had a full valet. And I could see it was valeted because a few marks I noticed on the test drive were gone on collection, and carpest had ben hoovered. I even got some Focus mats :-)

Are you planning on naming and shaming at any stage.

[firstcar]

Hi whoever is reading this!

By way of update, I tried to have things resolved directly with the General Manager and it seems he is aware of the bullying of customers by his sales manager and tried to cover up the whole situation in my dealing with him and have essentially "fobbed me off".

I am now going to head office.

I have a couple of queries before I do and wonder if anyone can help:

1. The gear change in my car was very noticeable from the day I picked it up. As part of trying to resolve matters with the GM, I was given a courtesy car, a Focus, I think it was 2009. I had not driven an automatic before so do not know how it should be but the Focus was a lot smoother changing gears and in fact was barely noticeable, whereas with my car, it would judder. So I asked the dealership why this was and I was told it was because mine is a 4 speed auto and the Focus was a 6 speed auto. Is this true? I ask because when I got my Fiesta back, the gear change is now a lot less noticeable, even when picking up speed quickly, so I'm guessing it can't be true - and I was lied to again.

2. Should the above have been picked up as part of the pre-collection checks they do? I recall being told they do a quality and safety check before cars are handed over to customers.

Bill - Thanks for your reply and good to hear of the satisfactory resolution. Re the naming and shaming, I think I'll see how I feel after Head Office's involvement.

Sharmila

[MattDRX]

what type of finance arrangement is this? it will say at the top of the agreement, either fixed loan sum agreement or Hire Purchase agreement.

Will help a lot more in terms of what you can do.

Although to ask, what out come do you want from all this? them to sort the car or take it back?

[MattDRX]

Also yes they do have to do a checklist on the car and I believe give you a copy of it all, this is when they take the car in and not when they hand it over to you iirc

[firstcar]

Ok well I wasn't given a checklist at any stage although would they do this even if I was dropping the car off pursuant to a complaint?

My finance agreement wasn't HP but the one where you get the base price when you hand the car back/pay off the loan.

In the first instance basically I want to have a car in the state and condition I would have got it in had the dealership had managers that acted properly. I will separately deal with the behaviour of the managers.

[MattDRX]

Ok, so you have a HP agreement, do you have it in writing what the amount is to pay at the end of the agreement or hand the car back? I don't need the figure just trying to work out what the agreement is.

If it does have that, I'd simply take the car back now and tell them where to go, it's secured on the vehicle and not a loan which isn't secured on the car / no interest on the car.

Upon taking it back they'll do whatever it takes to fix it then, but it needs to be HP and secured on the vehicle.

[firstcar]

Yes it gives the figure on the "Vehicle Order Form" and also, less obviously, on the "Customer Statement of Cash"

To be honest I'm not going to get anywhere with the dealership as I've already tried that. I'm looking to have the matter resolved by head office and am looking to find out whether I'm asking for something I should not have expected had I dealt with a different set of managers.

[Peterjones]

Doesn't sound right. It can be difficult and a tense game of poker at times over price, if your haggling over this but for a NEW car that isn't correct. You should reject the car under SOGA if it is not "fit for purpose". It sounds like they have not treated you correctly and maybe your best going to the media with the story as they will sit up and take note I'm sure.

[MattDRX]

don't bother with managers, they all used to be salesmen a few years back, write to the company directors, and say; ( in a better form of wording )

Car when being viewed was in X condition

Car on collection, was in a worse condition, it's evident that X, Y, Z had happened whilst it was in your care and I was rushed.

I expect this to be fixed / rectified by yourselves, other wise I will take legal action via a small claims court ( if the car is less than I think 10 or 20K only ) or under the Sales of goods act, I will reject the car and have the car handed back to yourselves and a full refund of all monies paid, judgement on this to be made via the courts.

Wait a few weeks, leave your number on the letter and see what happens, if not then let us know and I'll point to some people who start the ball rolling, managers wont care, but NO company director wants a CCJ on their name and will fix it when pushed I promise you, when diplomacy fails, intimidate. usually works.

When I bought my old Clio for 3K I ended up sueing them for £1.5k after they "misold" and minor cat D and non cup model when it was advertised as a Cup, it can be done.

[TomsFocus]

It isn't just Ford....I had massive problems with Marshall Peugeot earlier this year.

I couldn't view or collect the car for health reasons at the time, bought it using their website listing then phoned to order, pay and have it delivered asap. Not something I'd usually do but being 9 months old I wondered how bad it could be...

Long story, short, I sent it back for a full refund less than a week into ownership due to being mis-sold on about 5 different points and turning up several days late!! Extremely disappointed tbh.

I'm sure there are some good ones about (where I bought my Focus for a start!) but it seems most salesmen are just that unfortunately, they're not interested in you or the car, just the sale and commission they'll get out of it!

[firstcar]

This is all very interesting and an eye opener.

So head office won't do much? I had had conversations with the behaviour and they were all over the place - spoke to 3 people and got 1 who seemed to know what she was doing and was slightly more prepared to help.

I'd expect this from a tin-pot company but from not from an authorised dealer. That's what I find shocking. If this is what the big players are like what are the tin pot places like?! I feel like I walked into a lion's den and now a bit adrift at sea.

Well this is a learning exercise for me. Hopefully I'll be better equipped with my next car purchase.

As for my car, it's a used one. I'm not looking to kick up a fuss over matters that would one should expect with a used car, as I accept I've paid for a used one, but due to my limited knowledge don't know what I should expect of one and the fact they wouldn't confirm to me the safety checks had been carried out worries me. Plus I was clearly fobbed off with the explanation of the noticeable gear changing.

[TomsFocus]

Main dealers seem to be worse in my experience.

But one man trading from his house isn't necessarily great either (I've had good and bad experiences there).

I've found small independent dealers to be best, especially one that's local to you that other people could recommend.

And that's my experience from buying about 22 cars so far lol.

[Peterjones]

I'm not sure how true it is but I was told by my dealer that Trust Ford (former Polar) are part of Ford motor company and as such can give better margins if they choose. So if correct your dealing as close to the top as possible.

[Celticfan]

Trustford are comprised of several dealerships including Polar Ford and Dagenham Motors. There may be a couple of others. Group created a few months ago. They advertise through Ford online. And if you look on the site the prices are generally the same depending on the car you are looking at. So a 2013 car at one dealers will be the same cost as a similar car at another site. There will be several cars at a price point but may be at different dealers.

My original dealings were with Trustford Eltham and frankly the Sales Manager there was, in my opinion, as big a con man as the salesman I had the misfortune to have to deal with. Total lying barstewards all the way. Yet Trustford Alperton were totally different. No qualms whatsoever. Sales man was true to his word regarding service, valet and collection. Sales Manager made sure I was happy with the service before I left with my car.

Unfortunately, unless you can get someone from Ford itself to help you are not going to get a lot of luck with the stealership you are dealing with.

And if Trustford Eltham think I've moved on from their lies etc. they are very much mistaken.

Did I mention Trustford Eltham are a bunch of lying barstewards?

[firstcar]

I am literally flabbergasted by Ford.

I sent HO an email ydy basically saying I wanted the car to be checked over by another dealership and mentioned why. They asked for the registration number which I gave.

Today I got an email from Jade asking 7 questions - when was car purchased, last time it was serviced, mileage - what does that have to do with my issue? Any in any event she has my registration number so surely she could get that herself?

Further she said I could go to another dealership for a second opinion but I would have to pay for the cost of doing so! She offered to intervene, by going back to the dealership I brought the car from even though I told her the GM had been trying to cover up the bullying!

I am waiting to hear from her supervisor failing which I will write to the directors, and now I'm so furious I may even try and reject the car. I certainly won't be a second ford car owner. I might even write to Watchdog. Would be great to see them caught in the act.

[rosef1981]

How did you manage to sort out this issue. If trust ford are not interested then who do you go to?

[jeebowhite]

If the dealer isn't listening then raise a complaint to the customer service team. Contact details are pinned in the general Ford forum