Twitchy acceleration - 1.6 Ti-VCT

[pky]

5 minutes ago, Adey1981 said:

I noticed when checking the MOT history online, it showed that the car failed in 2013 due to "EML".  So maybe the light was 'bypassed' to get it through it's MOT?

Something else to note, when I bought the car and got the documents, I noticed that the previous owner (before the dealer) bought the car in January this year.

So she had the car for 1-2 months and then got rid. 

This is all starting fit together isnt it? Oh dear. I'm gonna mention all this to the garage, hopefully they will piece it together and do what the car really needs, at least I wont be paying for it.

Starting to wish I'd kept my 2000 Xsara.....maybe.

Cheers guys!

I'm a total cynic. So yep to me it looks like it's tampered with and is suffering the fault related to the DTC. I don't know what I'd want it fixed or my money back. When you bring all this to the dealer I would hope they offer either option. I don't see how a dealer could miss something as simple as the EML been disabled. Are these guys totally trustworthy? Isn't tampering with a car to get it through an mot test a criminal offence?

I'm feeling for you mate. Hope it gets sorted how you want it to be regardless.

 

[pky]

7 minutes ago, iantt said:

car wont fail on eml.

You know, that's something I always presumed would cause it to fail. Cheers for that.

[Adey1981]

Ah yes, you're quite right Ian, it was an advisory, not a fail. Cheers

[iantt]

ha ha, i know all there is to know about what passses or fails. :)

[artscot79]

starting to sound like a vct solenoid or cam issue now once the ti vct kicks in the eml would light up to show an issue the dealer clearly knows all of the above trust me they knew when they sold it so don't accept any rubbish from them you have the evidence if they were going to fix it they would have already

[Adey1981]

Yep, I'm gonna explain all this to the garage, and hopefully they will not monkey around. If I get a sense that I'm being fobbed off I'll be talking to trading standards/CAB etc.

The dealer is a one man show, not your typical Del Boy wheeler-dealer type though. Seemed mild-mannered, and respectable enough. But, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Cheers chaps!

[Adey1981]

Well It's been into the garage. The guy took it for a drive (without me) and said that he didn't notice any problem. He scanned it and it did show error P000A, but he said that this is a very vague code and doesn't really tell him much. I mention to him about the engine light not being on, and the previous EML MOT issue, and my concerns that it might have been fiddled with. He seemed pretty understanding. So, he asks me to take it for a drive with him in the car, and sods law, the symptom didn't show up (except maybe ever so slightly, not noticeable to a passenger), although the roads are so  bumpy in that area, it was hard to tell. Basically the upshot is, he is going to contact the dealer and arrange to get the EML sorted, and if I still continue to have the juddering issues they will look into it further. The mechanic did speak to the dealer after the scan, and the dealer said to assure me that he will sort any problems out at his expense.

 

So who knows, maybe once the eml is fixed and I try better fuel it could all be fine. Or I could have a lemon.

 

 

 

[ChrisM41]

So similar to mine. I get no codes but have somewhat intermittent twitching. I had codes for a rich mixture initially, which were cleared and havent come back, but my long term fuel trim is heading negative again, about 15% right now. Over 25% and the codes will return.

[artscot79]

The mechanic knows zip about cars then p000a the reasons for this are simple and require investigating in order first oil is it the correct viscosity 5w/30 fully synthetic

second check the vct solenoids are functioning correctly if he had the knowledge he would have done it a faulty vct cam or incorrect timing itvwont go away it will get worse

[Adey1981]

Tomorrow I'll ring the dealer and relay all this info to him, and hopefully sound like I know what I'm talking about. I'll try and push for a Ford specialist visit, because I'm not sure that the garage I was sent too was either impartial or knowledgeable enough. The guy in the garage suggested that I might be having buyers remorse and 'hunting' for the symptom i.e being hyper-aware. Then I mentioned about the error code, the lack of working EML and the oil dripping out of what looks like to me a oil pump? (It's a cylindrical thing near the oil filter that has a wheel and belt attached up to the engine)  and he just said "yeah" in that really dopey, clueless, teenager-y way (guy was about 45).

 

Guys seriously, I dunno if I could of made it this far without the advice, information and support you've all given me, It means a great deal to me, I'm so grateful, thank you all so much. 

 

[artscot79]

its what the forums for mate we've all been there at some point

[pky]

7 hours ago, Adey1981 said:

Tomorrow I'll ring the dealer and relay all this info to him, and hopefully sound like I know what I'm talking about. I'll try and push for a Ford specialist visit, because I'm not sure that the garage I was sent too was either impartial or knowledgeable enough. The guy in the garage suggested that I might be having buyers remorse and 'hunting' for the symptom i.e being hyper-aware. Then I mentioned about the error code, the lack of working EML and the oil dripping out of what looks like to me a oil pump? (It's a cylindrical thing near the oil filter that has a wheel and belt attached up to the engine)  and he just said "yeah" in that really dopey, clueless, teenager-y way (guy was about 45).

 

Guys seriously, I dunno if I could of made it this far without the advice, information and support you've all given me, It means a great deal to me, I'm so grateful, thank you all so much. 

 

This bloke you're dealing with would make my blood boil in 2 seconds. Suggesting you're having buyer remorse and looking for problems. Just keep to the facts and do not be swayed. He's sold you a car with a pre existing fault which ultimately could render the car unusable if not fixed and to boot the EML light that's there to indicate such things is not operating. I'd insist on a Ford specialist like you are planning now.

I have never used the torque app but is it as specific as Forscan? If you look at my previous post where I had posted up my error report. Does torque give you a similar description of the fault? My error code with Forscan wasDTC P000A-E1. If I'd read it with torque at the time would it have been as specific or would it have shown as just P000a? 

 

[Adey1981]

As far as I'm aware Torque is not specific to any a particular Make, so I'd think Forscan would be more of a detailed scan than Torque.

The car is going back into the same garage on Tuesday to address the EML, P000A and oil leak issue (ran the dash test and EML doesnt come on there either).

The dealer effectively said that he cant act, based on what people say to the customer on the internet, and to a point I can understand that from a general POV. He say's that he's not a mechanic so he has to trust the garage in their ability to either fix it or if needs be, pass it up to Ford to sort. He said, that because he sold the car, I have to let him try and fix the car first, and technically, he is at the moment, trying to fix it. But I guess we'll see.

The reason I have to wait until tuesday, and I think the reason they did nothing 2 days ago, is because of Easter, so, ok.

 

Afterwards I rang Trading standards, just so I could find out exactly where my legal position is. And apparently the 30-day return period 'pauses' once the dealer accepts to fix the problem, and commences again when I get the car back from the garage. So this at least buys me some time. The nice lady also said that, it wouldn't apply to "reasonable wear and tear, due to age". And she explained that that would be for things like tyres etc. I said that the car was sold to me as being in well running order and asked if that offers me any leverage and she said it does.

 

So, It looks like I have to grind this out for a few days first, and see how it goes after Tuesday and take it from there. 

[pky]

I think you'll end up with the result you want, a car that works. 

If you've got a pc with bluetooth or go buy a USB Bluetooth adaptor  you could give forscan a go.

[Adey1981]

Guys, some good news!

 

Rang the garage to see how things were going, and he told me that it needs a new cam and solenoid. I asked if they are going to put a new cam belt on (as you're supposed to) and they are. So I'm getting my VCT system 'renewed', and I'm getting a new cam belt!

I'm so glad I didnt listen to my friend who said it was probably normal, that would of cost me big time down the road. But instead the dealer has to take the hit, I feel bad for him a bit, but at the same time, he should of spotted all this in the first place (maybe he did?).

So guys, again, thanks so much for your help, it really spurred me on to get this sorted, I'm really not sure I could of done this without you (seriously).

This wont be my last post btw, I've spent about £100 on touch-up/detailing kit, so provided I don't wreck the car, you might some pics being put up at some point.

 

Cheers!

 

[artscot79]

good news make sure they do an oil flush and new 5/30 fully synthetic oil the also do the timing belt with a new cam bolt and tensioner very important those two are done and reset the fault codes when done with the cam done it should be good for a long Time

[pky]

As Arthur says make sure they do everything he's listed. Heading towards another 100,000 miles since mine was done. So hopefully you'll have a good motor for as long as you need. 

Glad you got it sorted and good luck with the wedding.

[montyburns]

Wow - I have read this thread with interest! I put a thread up last week (not sure if you can check that via my user name..)? and am now left wondering if I have the same issues..? 

[F1r31c3r]

Normal sound abnormal sound. The alow response code is a sure sign that the exhaust VCT phaser pully is worn out and it does start to go out around 100k miles. So change them at the same time as the cam belt. 

Timing tools to lock cams, pulls and crank are imperative to set timing perfect.

Spark plug gap can effect ignition timing by as much as 10 degrees per 0.5mm. On old engines without computers ignition  timing when fine tuning was done not oy with the distributor but the spark gap. Larger the gap the longer the dwel time before it jumps the gap, shorter the faster the dwell time etc. 

Bad leads will cause longer or shorter dwell times too depending on high or lower resistance in the wire, heat and cold will affect them. 

If you hear a rattle and you are concerned about it with your timing you need to connect a oscilloscope and back probe both knock sensors. First test them by lightly knocking the fastening bolt of them and see you vet an ac signal. The generate their own voltage no need have the car running however, once you confirm the sensors are good and there are 2 of them so you can compare results keep them background and start the engine. If the knick is piston or conrod related these sensors will show a spike on every knock.

If the are a clean straight signal your rattle is elsewhere which is hard to find seen as it will echo through the entire engine sounding different at different locations. Could be clutch could be sticking valves could be leaking exhaust manifold and the knock is from a slight backfire. 

If the knock occurs when you are adding fuel not when decelerating computer cuts off fuel during this condition then it could be a leak in you exhaust system close to the manifold or cat. 

 

Hope that helps