Exhaust filter limit reached - on petrol car?

[Botus]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:47 AM, Wookie Monster said:

Petrol particulate filters are now becoming a thing, mainly due to the switch to direct injection and tighter emissions limits on the latest engines. Same procedure applies to clean them out- good blast down a motorway to get things hot and burned off.

just read about this for motorbikes,

didn't say why but direct injection on petrol's causes more particulate matter, also blocks up the inlet ports (nothing washing the rot off) and means they can't make big revs.... they are developing 7250 PSI pumps to let bikes rev out... until then Kawasaki patents doing direct for low revs and inlet port injection for high revs... and maybe play mix and match depending on what's going on

one benefit of direct injection, is with the fuel squirted at the right point, it cools the combustion chamber allowing the engine to run higher compression (with associated extra go)

[Eric Bloodaxe]

21 minutes ago, Botus said:

didn't say why but direct injection on petrol's causes more particulate matter,

This article is quite interesting:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/under-skin-why-more-pressure-means-cleaner-petrol-engines

[Peter K H]

I have had a MK4 Focus for just over 7 wweks, bought with less than 7k on the clock done about 800 miles the GPF full warning has now come up 3 times after the first 2 times I gave it a blast for it only to come up again about a week later, needless to say car now booked into the dealership. I previously had a MK3 diesel with no DPF issues.

[Minstrel]

Have just had the required 2 year service and brake fluid change (5% water content) for the sum of £309 !!! on my Mk4 Focus, did not even change the plugs.

I asked if there were any software updates to hopefully stop the PPF from warning me of the need to "Drive now to clean" as soon as the air temp drops below 8 degrees C, needless to say "NO" was the answer, in other words Ford seems not to care about all the complaints and just turns their back on the issue.

Thanks Mr Ford.

[iantt]

Spark plugs changed at 4 years or 36k miles. 

[Betamax_man]

On 9/2/2020 at 3:38 PM, Minstrel said:

Have just had the required 2 year service and brake fluid change (5% water content) for the sum of £309 !!! on my Mk4 Focus, did not even change the plugs.

I asked if there were any software updates to hopefully stop the PPF from warning me of the need to "Drive now to clean" as soon as the air temp drops below 8 degrees C, needless to say "NO" was the answer, in other words Ford seems not to care about all the complaints and just turns their back on the issue.

Thanks Mr Ford.

My brother bought a MK4 Focus ST Line 1.0 Ecoboost from Lawtons and had the same error message. Driving it did not fix the problem, so he took it back to them. They performed a software update and the error message has never appeared again. Maybe your dealer couldn't be bothered to perform the required update.

[Minstrel]

Here we go again, temperature this morning 7degrees C had driven one mile and guess what came on the display "Filter at max Drive now to clean", completed my journey and returned to my car 4 hours later temp at 8 degrees C and as soon as I started the car the same warning appeared "Filter at max Drive now to clean".

Mr Ford get your act together and sort this out.

[iantt]

9 minutes ago, Minstrel said:

Here we go again, temperature this morning 7degrees C had driven one mile and guess what came on the display "Filter at max Drive now to clean", completed my journey and returned to my car 4 hours later temp at 8 degrees C and as soon as I started the car the same warning appeared "Filter at max Drive now to clean".

Mr Ford get your act together and sort this out.

Have they not updated your pcm since new? 

[Minstrel]

No, I asked at the first service (3-9-2020) about software updates and was told that there were none, and there were no call backs.

 

[Gueron]

Hi all,

just signed in to give some information on gasoline particle filters and regeneration. I have had this issue on my VW polo 1.0tsi engine. First time after 5000 miles. There is a discussion here : https://www.uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=73177

I had to taake it into the dealership to get a static regen done. Active regeneration mode just started back again (driver messge to keep revs up by driving in lower gear). There is a good description of the gpf in the document vag ssp-558 : https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-558-close-coupled-petrol-particulate-filter/

Back into regen again (after a further 5000 miles) and need to do quite a few miles to clear. I have bought an ODB dongle to get engine data readouts to follow what is happening.

In a nutshell particles build up during the cold start, so worse in winters. Once warmed up, if car driven economically there should be no soot build-up because best fuel burning conditions. My polo has always seemed stranged by always running at 1400 revs/min at start for first short distance, and this threby helps getting the temperature up quickly. Regeneration, particle burn-off, only happens when the exhaust is warm and oxygen flows through the exhaust. Normally even when driving fast the exhaust contains very little oxygen (stoeichiometric burning). Two ways to do this - use the cruise control, engine management then runs alternatively rich/lean to allow more oxygen (on the flat you can see changes in instantaneous fuel consumption). Or use the foot to press down (gently..) /then take off the foot so essentially doing the same. Also true when coasting downhill with no gas. During regeneration VW owners see maybe 20% more fuel use during their drive. GPF regeneration is quite different to DPF. Diesels produce more soot , run lower exhaust temperatures, but always have excess oxygen in the exhaust.

[Tizer]

10 hours ago, Gueron said:

Hi all,

just signed in to give some information on gasoline particle filters and regeneration. I have had this issue on my VW polo 1.0tsi engine. First time after 5000 miles. There is a discussion here : https://www.uk-polos.net/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=73177

I had to taake it into the dealership to get a static regen done. Active regeneration mode just started back again (driver messge to keep revs up by driving in lower gear). There is a good description of the gpf in the document vag ssp-558 : https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-558-close-coupled-petrol-particulate-filter/

Back into regen again (after a further 5000 miles) and need to do quite a few miles to clear. I have bought an ODB dongle to get engine data readouts to follow what is happening.

In a nutshell particles build up during the cold start, so worse in winters. Once warmed up, if car driven economically there should be no soot build-up because best fuel burning conditions. My polo has always seemed stranged by always running at 1400 revs/min at start for first short distance, and this threby helps getting the temperature up quickly. Regeneration, particle burn-off, only happens when the exhaust is warm and oxygen flows through the exhaust. Normally even when driving fast the exhaust contains very little oxygen (stoeichiometric burning). Two ways to do this - use the cruise control, engine management then runs alternatively rich/lean to allow more oxygen (on the flat you can see changes in instantaneous fuel consumption). Or use the foot to press down (gently..) /then take off the foot so essentially doing the same. Also true when coasting downhill with no gas. During regeneration VW owners see maybe 20% more fuel use during their drive. GPF regeneration is quite different to DPF. Diesels produce more soot , run lower exhaust temperatures, but always have excess oxygen in the exhaust.

Thanks for posting the link to the manual @Gueron. I prefer to use my gearbox and accelerator intelligently as per Ford's instructions (1500-4000 rpm) rather than cruise control because I feel that it will bring the temperature up much quicker and as a consequence of driving like that you will still get the oxygen on the overrun, but cruise control may be better for a long run or if the filter is very clogged.

From the posts on this Forum it seems that it is only the 1.0 engines that give problems, the 1.5 ones seem the cope with the GPF better. 

[ianincheshire]

Quote

From the posts on this Forum it seems that it is only the 1.0 engines that give problems, the 1.5 ones seem the cope with the GPF better.

The 1.0 is solely Direct Injection , whereas the 1,5 is partially Direct and partially port injection. Port injection generates less particulates than direct. The positioning of the GPF  Is also likely different on the 1.5 , it may be closer to the exhaust and thus gets hotter more quickly and regenerates more easily.

[Tizer]

49 minutes ago, ianincheshire said:

The 1.0 is solely Direct Injection , whereas the 1,5 is partially Direct and partially port injection. Port injection generates less particulates than direct. The positioning of the GPF  Is also likely different on the 1.5 , it may be closer to the exhaust and thus gets hotter more quickly and regenerates more easily.

My thoughts also, plus I would imagine that because the Dragon engine is a newer design it is likely to be more efficient and the designers probably had GPF's in mind at the design stage.

For info I have never had any warnings about my GPF on my 1.5, even throughout last winter. 

[CAMERON250310]

Have this problem with my Focus ST Line, been told by Arnold Clarke to take it for a 20-30 minute run at 50mph in 3rd gear. It’s due to short driving distances. Have also taken this up with Ford UK, who are not too happy with dealer response, they are going to book car in for a check.

[Morty1977]

What year did these start appearing on petrol models?

[ianincheshire]

Since about Sept 2018

https://www.onlyrevo.com/blog/gpf-gasoline-particulate-filter-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-do/

https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/features/gasoline-particulate-filter-gpf/

[CAMERON250310]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:16 PM, CAMERON250310 said:

Have this problem with my Focus ST Line, been told by Arnold Clarke to take it for a 20-30 minute run at 50mph in 3rd gear. It’s due to short driving distances. Have also taken this up with Ford UK, who are not too happy with dealer response, they are going to book car in for a check.

Made no difference. Spoke to Ford UK who asked that I book car in for check up. Contacted Arnold Clarke who tried to fob me off with various nonsense; 1. Try during st 30mph. 2. Have you followed procedure in owners manual? There’s nothing in manual about this. 3. The warranty does not cover this because you have been doing short distances.

Booked the car in for Friday and emailed Ford UK with latest. 

[iantt]

56 minutes ago, CAMERON250310 said:

Made no difference. Spoke to Ford UK who asked that I book car in for check up. Contacted Arnold Clarke who tried to fob me off with various nonsense; 1. Try during st 30mph. 2. Have you followed procedure in owners manual? There’s nothing in manual about this. 3. The warranty does not cover this because you have been doing short distances.

Booked the car in for Friday and emailed Ford UK with latest. 

There is a section in the owners manual, but you may have an older manual by mistake when new. 

[CAMERON250310]

1 hour ago, iantt said:

There is a section in the owners manual, but you may have an older manual by mistake when new. 

Thanks for that.

[Guy Heaton]

So since march I have hardly done any miles, just short school runs, and I got this today.  I'll take the car for a run down the motorway at lunch and see if that helps.

[CAMERON250310]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:24 PM, CAMERON250310 said:

Made no difference. Spoke to Ford UK who asked that I book car in for check up. Contacted Arnold Clarke who tried to fob me off with various nonsense; 1. Try during st 30mph. 2. Have you followed procedure in owners manual? There’s nothing in manual about this. 3. The warranty does not cover this because you have been doing short distances.

Booked the car in for Friday and emailed Ford UK with latest. 

They did a static regeneration. Soot level was 267%, is that a lot? Customer service girl thought that was a software update. Awaiting email giving details of what they did.

[LeeJ]

I have a quick question with this, I too have this pesky message keep coming up. Does the warning disappear after a set amount of time or when the management system sees the filter as clean.

[iantt]

Warning will stop when the filter has cleaned to a sufficient amount. 

[Guy Heaton]

I had it Thursday. Took my car for an hour down motorway and A roads.  Message has gone but as I'm not doing any other long journeys  I think I'll need to do this every couple of weeks.

[ianincheshire]

Quote

3. The warranty does not cover this because you have been doing short distances.

That's an interesting comment from the dealer!. Does it state anywhere in the warranty a minimum distance/period ? I would be very surprised if it did.