Mk3 degas hose leaking

[BMNZ]

Hi,

 

Not sure whether this can be merged with any of the other degas hose issues, but I'm looking for some advice on a leaking degas hose I just found.

I have a 2014 Titanium Navigator, bought with 25k miles in Jan 2018, now has 54k miles.

Just went to top up my washer fluid and noticed my coolant tank well below minimum:

The engine was still hot at this point having just done 1hr driving back from work.

I then noticed what appeared to be fluid on the radiator shroud and a few other places.

 

Looking at the hoses I seen some bubbling and the cause:

 

I have a video, and basically putting pressure on that hose is showing a leak.

 

Each time I wash my car, check the oil etc I have been taking a photo of the coolant tank for this exact reason. The last I checked it and took a photo was 23/08/2019, so exactly 3 weeks ago and it looked fine:

 

I currently have a Ford Protect Gold Warranty on it for what it's worth.

 

A few questions I could do with help on:

1) Is it possible the engine has already been damaged?

2) What is the actual coolant to top up with and anywhere to buy it? The manual states Motorcraft SuperPlus Anti-Freeze (WSS-M97B44-D), assuming that's it, where can I buy it - was hoping to use amazon since I can't really drive to a Ford dealership and the usual is 1hr each way by bus?

3) Should I be using the warranty on this, and if so should I be attempting the repair (temporarily), topping it up and taking it to them or telling them to collect?

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

 

[isetta]

I have seen posts on this forum before where it is leaking in the same place as yours. If it was mine I would not drive it like that. It could suddenly get a lot worse. These engines are well know for suffering major damage in the blink of a eye when they get a coolant leak.

If your fluid reservoir was not empty (I think you are saying it was low but not empty), I think it is very unlikely that any damage has occurred so far.  , it's been said many times on this forum that the best thing to do is put mk3.5 pipes on it which are better design. 

[isetta]

 

[JW1982]

This is the classis degas hose problem.You should not drive the car until the degas hose is replaced. If the hose ruptures the engine will be scrap within 2 minutes without even noticing.

 

On the MK3 the degas hose assembly consists of a plastic line and 2 rubber hoses that are connected by a plastic T-piece. The connection between the plastic line and the plastic T-piece suffers a lot from vibrations and heat from the turbo. The combination of the vibrations and heat causes the material of the plastic line and the plastic T-piece to deteriorate prematurely. Most failed degas hoses or degas hoses that are changed as a preventive measure show signs of discoloration and ageing of the plastic material near the joint of the plastic line and the plastic T-piece. 

Another problem is that the plastic line is poorly connected to the plastic T-piece. During production of the degas hose the plastic line is heated and installed onto the hose tail of the plastic T-piece. This installation method already causes deformation of the material of the plastic line during production. This joint is basically the weakest link of the complete degas hose.

The MK3.5 plastic line suffers from a lot less heat and vibrations. Next to this the MK3.5 plastic line has quick connect connectors at both ends of the plastic line. These quick connect connectors are plastic welded onto the plastic line using the ultrasonic plastic welding technique. This connection is a lot more durable than the connection of the MK3 plastic line.

Apart from this the MK3.5 design hoses were used for about 4 Years (2014 -2018) without changing the design or any known problems. The MK3 design hoses however were only used for 2 Years (2012-2014). Within these 2 Years the design changed several times because of the known issues. 

 

To prevent most cooling system problems on a Focus MK3  1.0 ECOboost you can basically go 2 different routes:

1: Replace the MK3 degas hose about every 3 Years and inspect it regularly. There is a huge demand for this type of hose (it is out of stock quite often). Because of the huge demand the price of this degas has increased drastically. The price tripled within the last Year.

2: Convert the cooling system to MK3.5 specs. by changing 2 hoses. This is currently the cheapest option (and in my opinion also the best option). 

 

Converting the MK3  1.0 ECOboost cooling system to MK3.5 specs. is very easy:

1.0 ECOboost cooling system:

This part of the cooling system is identical for both the MK3 and MK3.5  1.0 ECOboost.

 

 

MK3 specific 1.0 ECOboost cooling hoses:

 

 

MK3.5 specific 1.0 ECOboost cooling system pipes and hoses:

On the MK3.5 the degas hose is integrated in the expansion hose. The thin plastic hose/pipe is no longer part of the degas hose but a seperate hose/pipe that runs directly from the coolant reservoir to the engine.

To convert the MK3 cooling system to MK3.5 specs you only have to change the following parts:

Finis 1855418
Finis 2122838

I paid less than €50,- including P&P for these parts which is cheaper than the single MK3 degas hose.

[BMNZ]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm definitely not driving it until the hose is replaced and the coolant level back where it should be.

As you can see from the pictures, the level is almost an inch below the minimum line with some still sitting in the higher section (car's on a bit of a lean where it's parked). In the 3 weeks since I last checked the coolant level I've probably done around 1k miles. I'm not sure exactly sure when it started leaking but I have hopefully caught it in time.

Small split:

 

The Ford Protect Gold warranty doesn't cover hoses or any consequential damage from them so no help there.

 

I also don't like the look of the expansion tank so will replace that as well:

 

I'm sure I read there is an updated tank cap as well? Is there some trick to removing the cap? It doesn't seem to want to undo even with a fair bit of force...

 

I'm currently trying to decide whether to get it taken to the dealership and have them do the work, or to buy the hose, tank and cap and do it myself. Unfortunately I only have on-street parking so I'm reluctant to replace the lower hose as part of the Mk3.5 upgrade.

 

Thanks again!

 

[BMNZ]

Actually another question - assuming I carry out the work myself to replace the hose with another Mk3 one and a new tank - how much coolant would I need to buy?

[0shiny1]

These infamous pipes seem to be getting more and more (bad) attention on this forum..

The caps can be stiff AF you just need a dry rag to gain more grip and eat some spinach for extra power, twist anti clockwise with all your might.

You won't loose much if replacing with another MK3 hose, just pull the tank up and off its mounts, disconnect the tank outlet hose and have a container ready to catch the remaining coolant out of the tank.  A 1 ltr bottle of coolant will be more than enough for top up once done. 

I replaced mine with MK 3.5 hoses and only needed a 1 ltr bottle of coolant for top up even though I lost a bit from pulling the bottom engine hose, the only partly difficult bit with replacing with MK 3.5 hoses is getting to the bottom hose clip, if I could have found my right angled long pliers it would have been a lot easier.  Really I'd recommend JW1982's advice and fit the 3.5 hoses for peace of mind, if you're not that confident and have a mate that's not bad at mechanical work that can help you that would be ideal, it's not that hard to do and won't take long.

[BMNZ]

3 hours ago, 0shiny1 said:

These infamous pipes seem to be getting more and more (bad) attention on this forum..

The caps can be stiff AF you just need a dry rag to gain more grip and eat some spinach for extra power, twist anti clockwise with all your might.

You won't loose much if replacing with another MK3 hose, just pull the tank up and off its mounts, disconnect the tank outlet hose and have a container ready to catch the remaining coolant out of the tank.  A 1 ltr bottle of coolant will be more than enough for top up once done. 

I replaced mine with MK 3.5 hoses and only needed a 1 ltr bottle of coolant for top up even though I lost a bit from pulling the bottom engine hose, the only partly difficult bit with replacing with MK 3.5 hoses is getting to the bottom hose clip, if I could have found my right angled long pliers it would have been a lot easier.  Really I'd recommend JW1982's advice and fit the 3.5 hoses for peace of mind, if you're not that confident and have a mate that's not bad at mechanical work that can help you that would be ideal, it's not that hard to do and won't take long.

I bought the parts and just installed most. I think the old cap may have been cross-threaded.

I can't seem to get the old tank off, that rear clip really doesn't want to let go of it. I also don't think I have a pair of pliers wide enough to get that bottom retaining clip off the hose so I thought I would just use the new hose and cap for now.

The coolant I bought (Ford Super Plus Premium) seems to be the right spec per the manual (WSS-M97B44-D), but is seems more of a yellow colour whereas what's in the tank now is more orange. Does this seem right? Does the coolant change colour at all or is it a different spec currently in the system?

 

 

[0shiny1]

Getting the old tank off can be a bit tricky, a flat bladed screwdriver between the metal clip and the plastic opening and a case of wiggling while pulling upwards and it should come out, I found swearing at it helped.

The clip on the bottom of the tank?  They also require a bit of force because if its been on there for a while, a decent pair of pliers pinching the clip together and pull and wiggle it off.

The coolant you've got should be fine, from reading this: https://parts.vospers.com/genuine-ford-super-plus-premium-anti-freeze-coolant-1ltr.html in the description it says:

Quote

This antifreeze was always red/pink in colour, Ford are now producing this in different shades, it will mix with your existing coolant. This Anti-Freeze is suitable for the majority of Fords but there may be some exceptions.

 

[0shiny1]

Sorry I just remembered I think the clip on the bottom hose to the tank is joined in some way to the rubber pipe or they fuse themselves on, so you have to squeeze the tabs of the clip and pull and wriggle the pipe from the tank.

[BMNZ]

On 9/14/2019 at 3:23 PM, 0shiny1 said:

Getting the old tank off can be a bit tricky, a flat bladed screwdriver between the metal clip and the plastic opening and a case of wiggling while pulling upwards and it should come out, I found swearing at it helped.

The clip on the bottom of the tank?  They also require a bit of force because if its been on there for a while, a decent pair of pliers pinching the clip together and pull and wiggle it off.

The coolant you've got should be fine, from reading this: https://parts.vospers.com/genuine-ford-super-plus-premium-anti-freeze-coolant-1ltr.html in the description it says:

 

Yeah it's rather limited space at the back of the tank and I couldn't get a screwdriver to free it, and least not without risking damage to the tank. There seems to be a barb on that clip. Since I can't yet get the hose off I have left it for now. Will probably look to do the tank swap in the next few weeks. I bought 3 x 1L bottles of coolant so should have enough.

I found that same link saying those coolants could be mixed so have gone ahead and done that for now.

[0shiny1]

This isn't exactly identical but the same technique as in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umo-LN4TA8I and also towards the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7qEoI-anK0  You wont damage the tank because the screwdriver wont be near to the tank itself, just the outer hole/tab.  Its easier to get the bottom tank hose off when the tank is off its mounts (better access).  The second vid will hopefully give you some tips.

[BMNZ]

Resurrecting my own thread just to add that I've now replaced the reservoir. Until recently I was doing a fair few miles each day and I started to notice the coolant level was very slowly creeping down. When I ran my hand under the bottom of the reservoir there seemed to be some coolant there, and also in the top of the engine mount underneath. The back mount that stopped me replacing it when I did the hose was a bit of a nightmare to get off. Couldn't easily get a screwdriver behind it like in the videos linked by 0shiny1.

 

Not definitive, but looks like there are signs of cracks/splits in some of the weld lines and elsewhere:

 

Unfortunately I'm not doing many miles at the moment to be 100% sure this was the cause but thought I'd add the information in case it helped anyone else.