56 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Heads should roll over the electric car fiasco

I'm saying nothing 🙄

Oh wait a minute, I might have something in my signature line that covers it 🤣

Meanwhile, I see the figures for the first 6 months of the year show progress to date against the 22% EV sales target.

Only Smart, Polestar, BYD and Tesla have comfortably exceeded it, BMW, Cupra, Jeep, MG, and Volvo have just made it.

The rest - including Audi, Citroen, Dacia, Fiat, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Land Rover, Lexus, Mazda, Mercedes, Mini, Nissan, Peugeot, Porsche, Renault, Seat, Skoda, Suzuki, Toyota, Vauxhall and VW are largely miles away.

Whatever you think to EV's, this scheme does seem an odd way to stimulate sales. At present, for whatever reason - price, type of vehicle, range anxiety, charging facilities**, etc - customers simply don't want to buy the product. 

If you had a similar situation in the world of groceries, would you be fining Tesco, Aldi et al if customers weren't buying enough cabbage or potatoes?

(** I've often commented on charger availability and keep an eye on my nearest, which is at the Park and Ride site. I've noticed that the same 2 of the 8 there are usually in use, and the others not, so wandered in to investigate the other day.

I found that the 2 popular ones are equipped with tethered cables with a choice of connectors, plus they accept contactless payment cards. The other 6 are "bring your own cable" and payment by app. So that's one barrier which could (and should already have been) easily removed.)

40 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

I found that the 2 popular ones are equipped with tethered cables with a choice of connectors, plus they accept contactless payment cards. The other 6 are "bring your own cable" and payment by app. So that's one barrier which could (and should already have been) easily removed.)

Surely it's about time that some governing body decided that there was just one universal charging cable in the same way that phone cables are now all USB C? Imagine if petrol/diesel cars had different sized/shaped filling nozzles? 🤷

12 minutes ago, Turvey said:

Surely it's about time that some governing body decided that there was just one universal charging cable in the same way that phone cables are now all USB C? Imagine if petrol/diesel cars had different sized/shaped filling nozzles? 🤷

They do, to stop idiots putting petrol in a diesel and diesel in a petrol. But some folk still manage it. 

41 minutes ago, Turvey said:

Imagine if petrol/diesel cars had different sized/shaped filling nozzles? 🤷

The thing is, that at least when you're filling your car with fuel, your hand is permanently on the pump nozzle, and you are in attendance for the duration. With an EV, you plug it in and wander off for hours. Hence the cases of wanton vandalism on cutting cables, even just removing the charger are now rife. Boys will be boys...

To stop EV owners being at a disadvantage compared to petrol/diesel owners, the government  is going to have all the rubber hoses removed from pumps and drivers will have to provide their own. 🤣

That's one more EV disadvantage sorted 👍

2 hours ago, unofix said:

To stop EV owners being at a disadvantage compared to petrol/diesel owners, the government  is going to have all the rubber hoses removed from pumps and drivers will have to provide their own. 🤣

That's one more EV disadvantage sorted 👍

Or to please the petrol car owner, every owner gets there own petrol pump at home that automaticaly dispenses fuel at 11p a litre while your doing something more interesting. 🤣🤣

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by iantt

33 minutes ago, iantt said:

that automaticaly dispenses fuel at 11p a litre

It would be an excellent idea, but I'd want to be able to fill the tank 100% full and in under 8 minutes rather than 8 hours 🤣

1. The EV market is actually in collapse right now. It’s not “imminent”. It’s happening. The industry has too many problems to address and the EV market is simply not going to “takeoff” given the buyers resistance and the price of the vehicles. Taxpayers increasingly despise the EV because they are paying the subsidies that are being paid to buyers. So many of the costs of owning EVs are dispersed into the economy and are not being counted as a expense out front. Plus the current administration never has added any capacity to charge EVs. Solar panels and wind turbines. Intermittent at best the people who have been making Joe Bidens lips move have scammed the country. The car companies were told to build EVs or face being forced out of business. It all stinks of corruption at the highest levels of government and industry!

9 hours ago, unofix said:

It would be an excellent idea, but I'd want to be able to fill the tank 100% full and in under 8 minutes rather than 8 hours 🤣

Your a rare breed who fills up there petrol or diesel car full from empty every time. 

I spend those 8 hrs topping up asleep at night once a week( I do sleep without topping up the other 6 nights. ) 

There is  major downside owning an Ev   in my particular case .

My partner has taken a liking to using it on long trips to see her mum ( saving her £40 in fuel every time) so I'm left with her  petrol manual car for work. Even worse it's a vauxhall. 😭😭😭😭

She helped herself yesterday, and is again Tuesday night to Friday night . 

 

3 minutes ago, iantt said:

Your a rare breed who fills up there petrol or diesel car full from empty every time.

Not that rare, I too 'full up' every single time, can't see the point in not doing so. It's a chore to me, I'd rather do it the least number of times possible...

Just now, StephenFord said:

Not that rare, I too 'full up' every single time, can't see the point in not doing so. It's a chore to me, I'd rather do it the least number of times possible...

Most people top by X amount in £ , £20, 30, just enough for the week 

1 minute ago, iantt said:

Most people top by X amount in £ , £20, 30, just enough for the week 

I simply don't see the point - over a year, the spend on fuel is exactly the same...

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

I simply don't see the point - over a year, the spend on fuel is exactly the same...

Yes, exactly. Your not Mr average commute though. 

10 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Not that rare, I too 'full up' every single time, can't see the point in not doing so. It's a chore to me, I'd rather do it the least number of times possible...

I haven't done it for 2 years. The time I've saved. 🤣

The greatest benefit of filling the fuel tank rather than running it on the bare minimum level of fuel is that the only thing that cools the fuel pump is the fuel! If you don’t have much fuel in your tank then the fuel pump will run warmer and eventually it will become noisier and then it will will quit working. This was the situation with many five liter Mustangs that had been running around on minimal fuel levels. It became easy to predict the death of the fuel pump just by listening to the sound of the pump.

modern, throttle by wire fuel pumps are very expensive compared to the old return fuel system that the Mustang used in the 1980’s.

 

This video adds nothing new ... but is nevertheless a neat summary of where we're at presented against the background of a drive through the lovely Sussex countryside on a beautiful summer's day.

 

4 hours ago, Linds said:

This video adds nothing new ...

This video demonstrates perfectly on this one issue alone why the EU should be disbanded immediately, and why we should all be fearful of government interference in our lives. That stat of only ONE in ELEVEN of UK EV sales being to genuine private customers says all. The other 10 go to company/contract customers to gain various tax benefits. The general public don't want them. Above all, we should be given the choice to have them if we do, not forced by government!

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Above all, we should be given the choice to have them if we do, not forced by government!

I've always hated being forced to do anything. Even as a youngster I hated having to go to school. When the ICE cars disappear, I will stop driving!

2 hours ago, Linds said:

This video

That's a very good, well-balanced summary of the situation.

Afaik, though, the ZEV mandate doesn't actually specify that a ZEV must be battery electric, just that it must be zero emission?

At present though, EVs are probably the only way of achieving that at an economic (?) cost. Other technologies would be permitted (e.g. hydrogen) but are insufficiently developed at this point in time to meet the timescale that governments have set.

The guy in the video makes the point that we (or some of us) have elected these people. As we were commenting earlier in the thread however, no credible party offered an alternative, more sensible, policy, leaving many of us with no options other than voting for policies we disagreed with, spoiling our paper, or just not bothering.

I was reading an interview with the head of Suzuki UK the other day. They are bringing their first EV to market in the next 12 months but will probably get through the first year of ZEV mandate by horse trading carbon credits, etc. They have already axed several ICE models, not because they don't sell, but to prevent people buying them and achieve the necessary ZEV ratio going forward. 

 

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

That's a very good, well-balanced summary of th we were commenting earlier in the thread however, no credible party offered an alternative, more sensible, policy, leaving many of us with no options other than voting for policies we disagreed with, spoiling our paper, or just not bothering.

There was one political party at the recent general election that ran on a policy to immediately abolish all 'net zero' targets. They got over 4 million votes...

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

There was one political party at the recent general election that ran on a policy to immediately abolish all 'net zero' targets. They got over 4 million votes...

Yes, it was a shame the "credible" bit took rather a hit this time around, due to some rather dubious candidates. I know several people who were put off.

And, in a constituency near me, the candidate was dead.........

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/24244879.reform-uk-called-york-candidate-inactive---died/

26 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

And, in a constituency near me, the candidate was dead.........

He'd still have been better than what got in. Though Starmer should be congratulated. Normally it takes government years to reach this level of incompetence, he reached it in 20 days!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd16pej1n2go

Now, I'm supportive of help for Ukraine, but I find this one a little odd. Won't the carbon from these vehicles still.go into the same worldwide atmosphere, or have TFL found a way of ring fencing the UK?

Still, with all the missiles currently being lobbed around the planet, any of this green stuff does look a little futile at present.

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd16pej1n2go

Now, I'm supportive of help for Ukraine, but I find this one a little odd. Won't the carbon from these vehicles still.go into the same worldwide atmosphere, or have TFL found a way of ring fencing the UK?

Still, with all the missiles currently being lobbed around the planet, any of this green stuff does look a little futile at present.

I wonder if Sadiq has retained the right to tax these vehicles that were donated?? 😂