And the other bits to put in context. 

"New registrations of the vehicles dropped by 10.8 percent, with shrinkage in countries such as Germany (down 36.8 percent) offsetting gains elsewhere."

That's due to the anticipated end of subsidies/ grants. So customers holding back understandably for now in Germany. 

UK still acceptable growth. 

"there was a healthy 10.5 percent increase in BEV registrations year on year"

Any other products that sold 10% more than previous year would be applauded . 

This is all before the cheaper end of market vehicles in the pipeline are on sale. 

Some countries are having 52 new cars launched in 2025 in a whole spectrum of prices. 

 

8 hours ago, iantt said:

Some countries are having 52 new cars launched in 2025 in a whole spectrum of prices.

If the market hadn't been totally strewn with draconian government interference in banning ICE cars, do you think consumers would be drawn en masse to EVs? (or as I suspect, it would remain a very niche market)

If the market was left to its own devices, customers would be free to choose whatever best meets their needs and preferences, just as in the past I have moved from petrol to diesel and back again as my usage has changed.

At present, there are no EVs on the market that attract me, with the possible exception of the Cupra Born but even that is a bigger car than I really need these days. That situation could well change over the next couple of years with the introduction of cars like the Renault 5 and the VW Group ID 2 family and I would happily consider them if I was satisfied with the charging situation.

(As I've mentioned before, I think I could cope pretty well just by relying on public chargers locally, but I often find myself in places where things are not so good at present. Hopefully that will also change.)

What I don't like, and I think this is Stephen's main point also, is being told how to spend my money by often ill-informed politicians and/or unelected officials, whose current focus on one particular solution may preclude, or delay, other, possibly better, options which may evolve.

 

3 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

What I don't like, and I think this is Stephen's main point also, is being told how to spend my money by often ill-informed politicians and/or unelected officials...

Perfectly expressed. I've said before, sadly all the key decision makers in the UK live/work in London, where you can get a tube every 3 minutes, a bus every 4, and often a tax payer funded ministerial driven car. They think the whole country is like that. It's not. I live in a village where there are 4 buses/day to the main city (no trains!) For most Britains, we need our cars...

For example, do you think for one second that Sadiq would have pushed through stricter ULEZ legislation if he didn't have daily access to a £400,000 chauffeur driven, bomb proof V8 Range Rover?

Having a car isn't a luxury for most of us, it's a necessity...

I see there's a programme on Channel 5 8.00 pm Wednesday "Petrol vs Electric Cars: Which is Better?"

I'll probably record it to watch later as we enjoy "Repair Shop" which is on at the same time. (We keep wondering if Jay Blades' team could do anything to repair us........😀)

14 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I see there's a programme on Channel 5 8.00 pm Wednesday "Petrol vs Electric Cars: Which is Better?"

Already set to record on mine. Pretty resigned to the conclusion that an EV would be 'better', I just don't want to be forced to buy one 🤣 In the same way that BetaMax was proven to be 'better', but the general public went for VHS. Also, the way Sony MiniDisc was better than CD, but it failed miserable because we all liked CDs LOL

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

Pretty resigned to the conclusion that an EV would be 'better'

We shall soon see. I did spot a review of the programme somewhere which said the conclusion was "surprising" but I guess that depends on your own preconception of what the conclusion might be!😀

54 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

We shall soon see. I did spot a review of the programme somewhere which said the conclusion was "surprising" but I guess that depends on your own preconception of what the conclusion might be!😀

Yeah, you only got to Google this topic and see each investigation comes to different conclusions depending on the bias of the reporting no different to any other controversial views on any other subject. 

Quite amusing really when you look at the reporters doing these topics are experts in completely different fields. What a  BSc and PhD in Pharmacology has to do with cars in don't know. 🤣 Another one , Microsoft ecosystem reporter. 

https://www.techspot.com/news/104515-tesla-cybertruck-ignites-after-crashing-fire-hydrant.html

The incident highlights the challenges in putting out EV fires.

 

 

Don,t shoot the mesenger. Think about it, would you like to be an emergency worker at one of these incidents involving an EV on fire with all the dangers involved?

I'm surprised the cybertruck uses NMC batteries. Most of teslas now use lfp which are pretty much impossible to catch fire. 

Lfp are now used in many new EVs, mainly due  being cheaper though.

Does LFP sand for "Literally Fire Proof"  🤣 🔥🔥🔥

15 minutes ago, unofix said:

Does LFP sand for "Literally Fire Proof"  🤣 🔥🔥🔥

Nearly.  Lithium iron phosphate 

Higher temps required for thermal runaway. 

Moral of this article is don't drive over a water hydrant, or don't be a ***** and drive a  pig ugly truck ( not that that's likely to happen fortunately in the UK. ) 

Channel 5 tonight (04/09/24) 8pm Petrol vs Electric cars...

No doubt it'll be on catch-up later on.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/bmw-explains-why-it-will-sell-hydrogen-fuel-cells-in-2028/

Chicken and egg comes to mind. Cars first or hydrogen filling stations . Doubt BMW have the funds to install all the filling stations just for a few cars. 

When you take the process costs into account,Hydrogen is fairly expensive on a per btu basis. It is clean. But CNG is more plentiful and has a more established infrastructure than hydrogen. Those of us who are over the age of sixty will have a much greater chance of having a CNG fueled vehicle than ever living long enough to see a hydrogen infrastructure.

This made me chuckle. 

A well-known energy systems analyst described the Toyota/BMW hydrogen partnership yesterday as "Tying two rocks together and throwing them in the water, hoping they will float". Quite apt.

 

2 hours ago, iantt said:

Toyota/BMW hydrogen partnership

What was his reasoning for that Ian?

The Supra/Z4 collaboration seemed to go quite well (though that doesn't run on hydrogen of course!)

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

What was his reasoning for that Ian?

 

Dementia? 

BMW had a go some years ago. 

 

One for you iantt.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/the-2025-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-is-the-antidote-to-boring-electric-cars/

1 hour ago, eddie eastwood said:

One for you iantt.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/the-2025-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-is-the-antidote-to-boring-electric-cars/

Thanks, carwow did a drag race.

https://youtu.be/QT2e1J0v_A4?si=LOZi57Kpx14ApEhR

I've driven the mache e  GT 480 hp and thats quick enough. 

20 hours ago, iantt said:

BMW had a go some years ago. 

Ah, that old efficiency thing again. Maybe they'll do better with Toyota's help.

Hydrogen might get a boost in future. All the wind turbines that Ed Millipede is going to put on any land not built over by the Dancing Queen's housebuilding, will produce so much electricity we'll need a way to store the surplus!😀

 

That Ioniq 5 N is a very impressive bit of kit -Autocar rated it highly:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/hyundai/ioniq-5-n

Just need them to come up with an equivalent to the I20N (Ioniq 2 N perhaps?) for under £30k!

The Ioniq 5 generally is, I think, a clever bit of styling. Taken in isolation and from a distance, it looks a bit Golf-like, get closer particularly parked next to another car, it seems huge.

On 9/8/2024 at 5:23 PM, iantt said:

I've driven the mache e  GT 480 hp and thats quick enough. 

The GT version of Mach E is the only one that has some retail customer demand. I have driven both versions and I can see why the GT version would have some appeal. Not unlike the plaid version of the Tesla but with a more traditional design interior. It would be a attractive option for someone who wants a car with Mustang design elements that has four doors and is fast. But the GT version has a much higher price tag and is simply not a viable car for people who need an economical vehicle to live with as a daily driver.

The first time I drove a Mach E I stepped out of it thinking “ my God, for a tenth of the investment in this thing Ford could have made a shooting brake version of the Mustang and had a practical body style offering that would have actually made them a profit and increased their market share”. But then I realized that the Mustang marketing image was the only thing that mattered to Ford. 
Ford was willing to dilute the Mustang brand and image for the Mach E, not to sell a more practical version of the actual Mustang product.