1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

When you click the 'agree T&C' with FaceBook, you give them permission to track your movements. Theoretically, this is because they can target marketing at you, hence you get the 'offer' when you walk past a KFC, or fashion store etc. I find the whole 'social media' thing very sinister...

Thankfully I'm not on any Fb or twatter. Stopped watching the news as it's mainly doom n gloom so the BBC can sod off for the TV licence £ as well.

1 hour ago, Tizer said:

I'm sure the car does but I don't know if it still sends the data to Ford or keeps that data in the car. The Crash Data is something that you can't disable as far as I know because it is stored on the car.

I've never had my journeys enabled but I do keep my connectivity settings on. I'm not sure how much that data is saved by Ford.

Yeah  I'm fully aware of the crash data thing in the car. Have no problem with that at all.

@TurveyJust this sentence about BMW,s.

Turn signals have been optional add-ons for decades, mind you.

 

15 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Well thank goodness I voted to leave the EU, bunch of darn controlling morons...

I'm sure they'll be fitted to UK cars in any case..

20 minutes ago, fa13sta said:

I'm sure they'll be fitted to UK cars in any case..

Why are you sure?

I can't speak for all manufactures or all makes of Electric power steering, but I can say with confidence that all electric power steering motors/racks manufactured by TRW for the VW group have have incorporated the crash data recorder for about the last 15 years. It records speed, acceleration (throttle position), braking, and angle of the steering for a period of 40 seconds. The data is continually over written unless the vehicle triggers an airbag or a crash fuse is blown, at which point the data is captured and not over written. 

6 hours ago, unofix said:

TRW for the VW group have have incorporated the crash data recorder for about the last 15 years. It records speed, acceleration (throttle position), braking, and angle of the steering

Forgot to add that in no way or at any time does it record emissions. Allegedly at the request of VW 🤣

On 7/14/2022 at 1:30 PM, StephenFord said:

Why are you sure?

Because we always follow whatever rules the EU agree upon.. 

On 7/13/2022 at 8:22 PM, MarksST said:

This is how Tesla operate.

I recall seeing that even Grant Shapps had been caught by this one. Apparently he wondered why the heated rear seats in his Tesla had stopped working - turned out the free trial had expired and he'd have to pay several hundred pounds to get them back on. I believe he didn't stump up.

53 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

turned out the free trial had expired and he'd have to pay several hundred pounds to get them back on

If this is the future then I see a good business opportunity opening up for enterprising people to find ways around the systems. 

I can't see how this will work practically 🤔

So all cars will be built to the same spec, and therefore price, but you only pay for whatever features you want to use. I can't imagine manufacturers will be selling 'basic' spec cars at a loss so you'll end up paying to install the tech but not necessarily actually pay to activate it 🤷

 

Not sure I'm getting my point across though. 

56 minutes ago, unofix said:

If this is the future then I see a good business opportunity opening up for enterprising people to find ways around the systems. 

I imagine they will - unless the manufacturers have come up with some sort of code in the software which causes the car to self destruct if you tamper, etc!😀

Though BMW, Tesla, etc do seem to be taking this further, it's not that new a concept. I remember some years ago it was very common for VW/Audi specialists to add cruise on cars which didn't have it as standard - just a matter of fitting the appropriate stalk and activating the function in the software.

The BMW story was all over the media yesterday though, so they've got themselves a lot of publicity - whether ultimately good or bad remains to be seen.

5 minutes ago, Turvey said:

I can't see how this will work practically 🤔

So all cars will be built to the same spec, and therefore price, but you only pay for whatever features you want to use. I can't imagine manufacturers will be selling 'basic' spec cars at a loss so you'll end up paying to install the tech but not necessarily actually pay to activate it 🤷

 

Not sure I'm getting my point across though. 

No, I'm with you, Kevin. As I see it also, the cost has already been included in the price of the car when built and I don't see the manufacturers taking a hit for it in the hope that customers shell out at purchase or later. So they get at least two bites of the cherry.

Serve 'em all right if everyone just boycotted the options.

24 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I remember some years ago it was very common for VW/Audi specialists to add cruise on cars which didn't have it as standard - just a matter of fitting the appropriate stalk and activating the function in the software.

I've done a few cruise upgrades for Mk2 Focus owners on here over the years...  And a few more VW/Audi cruise upgrades!

This is a bit different though....they did at least require additional hardware.  

Though things like deflation detection and driveway locking have often just been 'switched off' if not chosen as an option...

There will still be some things requiring additional hardware, climate control for one...  You may be able to choose between single or multi zone, but I suspect they'll continue building really poverty models with basic AC to suit lower budget markets if not here.  The part cost between climate & non climate is still huge.

I also can't see people 'buying' cars much longer.  I certainly wouldn't want to own a modern car out of warranty.  Will all be done on lease so people can chop & change as circumstances do.

45 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

 

I also can't see people 'buying' cars much longer.  I certainly wouldn't want to own a modern car out of warranty.  Will all be done on lease so people can chop & change as circumstances do.

Fair point 👍

 

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I also can't see people 'buying' cars much longer.  I certainly wouldn't want to own a modern car out of warranty.  Will all be done on lease so people can chop & change as circumstances do.

Yes, I agree, particularly with EVs - whatever our personal views, that's what's happening. It seems that every week I read about a forthcoming new development that will reduce weight, shorten charging time, increase range, etc, etc, so I won't be wanting (to use our frequent analogy) to be stuck with Betamax when VHS, DVD and hard disc PVRs have already been and gone!

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Betamax

has gone ?????

Oh, and I'd just decided on which model to buy 🤣

On 7/16/2022 at 3:29 PM, TomsFocus said:

I've done a few cruise upgrades for Mk2 Focus owners on here over the years...  And a few more VW/Audi cruise upgrades!

This is a bit different though....they did at least require additional hardware.  

Though things like deflation detection and driveway locking have often just been 'switched off' if not chosen as an option...

There will still be some things requiring additional hardware, climate control for one...  You may be able to choose between single or multi zone, but I suspect they'll continue building really poverty models with basic AC to suit lower budget markets if not here.  The part cost between climate & non climate is still huge.

I also can't see people 'buying' cars much longer.  I certainly wouldn't want to own a modern car out of warranty.  Will all be done on lease so people can chop & change as circumstances do.

Volvo have been doing it for a while already..

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/

1 hour ago, fa13sta said:

Volvo have been doing it for a while already..

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/care-by-volvo/

Yes they have for at least a couple of years.

The prices have come down a tad though since the first launch.

IIRC the entry level of the XC40 was £632pm now down to £459pm still way more than I'm prepared to pay but each to their own.

On 7/18/2022 at 6:29 PM, Wino said:

Yes they have for at least a couple of years.

The prices have come down a tad though since the first launch.

IIRC the entry level of the XC40 was £632pm now down to £459pm still way more than I'm prepared to pay but each to their own.

Not my kind of thing either, but it looks like the way things will eventually end up unfortunately.. for most people, there's very little point in owning a car outright (PCP has already changed that business model).

10 minutes ago, fa13sta said:

Not my kind of thing either, but it looks like the way things will eventually end up unfortunately.. for most people, there's very little point in owning a car outright (PCP has already changed that business model).

Even more scary for those of us on the bottom feeder of the chain, for what some of you guys spend on a couple of monthly payments, that's what I paid outright for my car! The whole economics of motoring is changing to disqualify the poor in society, the same as they are disenfranchised in so much else...

Long term it might start to change again as if more people are WFH and using the tinternet for Zoom meetings etc etc then is that going to affect the company car sales market in the near future and beyond.

9 hours ago, Wino said:

Long term it might start to change again as if more people are WFH and using the tinternet for Zoom meetings etc etc then is that going to affect the company car sales market in the near future and beyond.

I bought my last new car in 2019, a Mk8 Fiesta ST. It's going to be the last new car I buy, mainly because of the way the market is moving - more automated controls, more tracking, more regulations, more restrictions, electrification - that's not for me.

My Fiesta is my project car as I work from home full time. For anything else, we have a family car that we use. Before this we would have renewed both of our cars every 3 years.

A lot of others have told me they're doing the same thing.

It's not going to work out well for the industry, I think we'll see a few big names disappear over the next decade or so.

18 hours ago, fa13sta said:

I bought my last new car in 2019, a Mk8 Fiesta ST. It's going to be the last new car I buy, mainly because of the way the market is moving - more automated controls, more tracking, more regulations, more restrictions, electrification - that's not for me...

Me too, when it comes to my "last car", which was meant to be the Fiesta Ecoboost I bought last September. Then I discovered the potential problems of the wet-belt, especially with my low mileage. And I suspect my annual mileage will decrease even more. So in two or three years' time, I may start looking for another "last car" - perhaps even a basic Fiesta (though not from the dealer that tried to rip me off with commission-based extras).

https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/11/gm_makes_onstar_addon_mandatory/

General Motors charging mandatory $1,500 fee for three years of optional car features

Don't want the services? You'll still have to pay for them, activated or not

Brandon Vigliarolo Thu 11 Aug 2022 // 17:45 UTC

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19

 

 

Drivers in the US and Canada are in for a bit of sticker shock as General Motors has made three years of its OnStar subscription service mandatory in many new vehicles at a cost of $1,500.

The little-noticed change took place in early June, the Detroit Free Press reported, when new GMC and Buick vehicles being sold in North America had the aforementioned line item added to sticker prices under "options and pricing."

According to a GM spokesperson who spoke to the Free Press, the fee will be charged whether or not the customer activates OnStar Connected Services. When the three years are up, customers have the option to extend the service, but charges will not be applied automatically.

The Register has asked GM for confirmation and additional details, but we've yet to hear back.

OnStar, which is owned by GM, provides a variety of safety services for the automaker and its subsidiaries' vehicles. According to GM, the mandatory OnStar plan provides remote key fob access, unlimited data, vehicle diagnostics, Wi-Fi hotspots, and access to the OnStar Guardian app, which is available for GM and non-GM vehicles.

GM Authority, which first reported the change, provided a table of specific price additions for various Buick and GMC models, which shows the tacked-on fee ranging from $0 in the GMC Hummer EV pickup to $1,675 in the GMC Canyon and Sierra HD. The latter two vehicles have a separate $175 charge for "GMC Connected Service Capability" that GMA didn't associate with other vehicles. GMC Yukon, Yukon XL, and Sierra 1500 buyers will be charged $905; other models retain the $1,500 fee, the table shows.

In our email to GM, The Register asked the automaker to verify the GMA table.

The accelerating creep of à la carte cars

Automakers have been planning to implement subscription services in their vehicles for several years, and chipmakers have been along for the ride, seeing such features as a way to get more money from automotive contracts.

• US car industry leads the world in production cuts over chip shortages
• Apple's secret car team tosses keys to Lamborghini lead
• Software issues cost Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess his job
• Is the Apple car real? These patents suggest yes

Consumer Reports noted in late 2020 that Audi, BMW, Cadillac (a GM subsidiary), Porsche, and Tesla all had plans to add subscription features for certain services. 

GM's $1,500, three-year "add on" makes headlines for its cost and lack of flexibility, but it's hardly the only real-world example – or the priciest. Tesla, for example, charges $12,000 up front (or $199/month) for access to the Full Self-Driving beta.

BMW also recently introduced an online add-on store for its vehicles in several countries, including Germany and South Korea. BMW's options include enabling heated seats for $18 a month, $8.50 for automated high beam switching, and more. These microtransactions only unlock access to capabilities already present in the vehicle.

The Register has tried getting reactions from GM dealerships, but have been unable to find someone willing to comment. Speaking to the Free Press, Sam Slaughter, the owner of Sellers Buick GMC in Farmington, MI, said customers haven't pushed back much on the change, but he expressed dissatisfaction that GM labeled its now-standard OnStar add-on as an option.

"I don't know why they did that, they should have just put that in the MSRP. We've had a couple people say, 'I don't want this.' But it's a forced option," Slaughter said. ®