And I wonder how these things affect passing a driving test. I'm sure when I passed mine you had to either do a hill start or at least show enough control on a hill so that you did not roll back.

I would be interested to hear from any Instructors or Examiners whether Auto hold and Electric Handbrakes need to be disabled to pass.

37 minutes ago, Tizer said:

And I wonder how these things affect passing a driving test. I'm sure when I passed mine you had to either do a hill start or at least show enough control on a hill so that you did not roll back.

I think the Hill start has not been part of the UK driving test for sometime now.

12 hours ago, Tizer said:

And I wonder how these things affect passing a driving test. I'm sure when I passed mine you had to either do a hill start or at least show enough control on a hill so that you did not roll back.

I would be interested to hear from any Instructors or Examiners whether Auto hold and Electric Handbrakes need to be disabled to pass.

I passed a year ago and was told that you can use anything the car has equipped from the factory including electric handbrakes, hill assist, cameras etc but you must still perform observations and stay aware in the “normal” way. 
 

That said, I opted to use the missus’ Fiesta with none of the aids attached. Start as you mean to go on and all that. 

When I was learning to drive the instructor had a diesel (as did most of them I think!).  Imagine my surprise when I bought my own petrol car and tried to hill start on the clutch alone!  

 

1 hour ago, Buxty said:

I passed a year ago and was told that you can use anything the car has equipped from the factory including electric handbrakes, hill assist, cameras etc but you must still perform observations and stay aware in the “normal” way. 
 

That said, I opted to use the missus’ Fiesta with none of the aids attached. Start as you mean to go on and all that. 

A wise move. I think most new cars have Hill Start Assist now even if they don't have the other things, but find it a bit concerning that there must be some drivers who have learned on the dumbed down cars and might roll back into my car if they ever have to drive a non dumbed down one or stall because they have a Clutch that has a biting point. 

55 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

When I was learning to drive the instructor had a diesel (as did most of them I think!).  Imagine my surprise when I bought my own petrol car and tried to hill start on the clutch alone!  

 

That's what I found out when we got the " Noddy car"  no hill hold at all. Back to the old days of handbrake on and give some welly 😄

Tried and tested the Focus in the works carpark today. 

No auto hold on, just the electric handbrake. Opened the drivers  door and it point blank refused to move either forward or back.

There’s one instance where (in the automatic mk4) the auto hold will switch itself off. Drive thru hand car wash. Engine off, minute or 2 back on creep forward a few feet ..same again . Auto holds off every time. 
As for auto hold on steep hills , Glasgow city centre has the steepest of hills , auto hold works every time regardless of how steep or how long in time. 

electric handbrake I switch on myself every time I park, apart from that auto hold does the job. 

2 hours ago, Wino said:

Tried and tested the Focus in the works carpark today. 

No auto hold on, just the electric handbrake. Opened the drivers  door and it point blank refused to move either forward or back.

Must be another failsafe in case someone is standing in the open doorway.

According to the Handbook if the Clutch is pressed in and you give it enough revs the Handbrake could release even if you are in neutral, so if you were on a slope someone could get injured.

On 10/7/2022 at 7:30 PM, unofix said:

However the problem then was that Auto Hold (which was on) then refused to engage, and it was a hair raising moment trying to get the car to reverse uphill

Well it's taken me awhile to test out the reverse hill start with Auto Hold, but today I tried it again. This time with nothing in front of me 👍

Now I've made an interesting discovery. That is 'Auto Hold' is purposefully disabled and not available once you select reverse (automatic gearbox). The instrument cluster ever shows a symbol to tell you that Auto Hold, even though switched on, is not available whilst in reverse. You learn something new everyday !!

However, this brings me back to the original problem. The EPB will not automatically release when trying to reverse uphill, and can only be released by pressing the EPB leaver down while holding the car on the foot brake , or by driving forward (which was not an option in the original situation).

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Well it's taken me awhile to test out the reverse hill start with Auto Hold, but today I tried it again. This time with nothing in front of me 👍

Now I've made an interesting discovery. That is 'Auto Hold' is purposefully disabled and not available once you select reverse (automatic gearbox). The instrument cluster ever shows a symbol to tell you that Auto Hold, even though switched on, is not available whilst in reverse. You learn something new everyday !!

However, this brings me back to the original problem. The EPB will not automatically release when trying to reverse uphill, and can only be released by pressing the EPB leaver down while holding the car on the foot brake , or by driving forward (which was not an option in the original situation).

I presume that is when starting off on a hill as opposed to stopping on a hill.

I have no Idea if it is the same with Manual cars, the way that the EPB is automatically released is by letting the Clutch out while accelerating and I'm not sure about either the EPB or Auto Hold when on a hill. 

Personally I use the EPB switch just like I would use a lever, it's second nature to me. I do know that you can't release the EPB when the car is not in gear unless you press the Footbrake or press and release the Clutch while pressing the Accelerator. 

I don't know if Auto cars have Hill Start Assist, if so then maybe that is confusing matters.

 

57 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I presume that is when starting off on a hill as opposed to stopping on a hill.

If you are moving forward, either going up or down a hill then Auto Hold works just fine. The problem occurs if you have come to a complete stop on a hill and apply the EPB, like when you park.

When you get back in the car and start the engine, if you have to reverse up the hill (to get out of the parking space) then the EPB will not automatically release, (as it would do if you drove forward). Since my car is an automatic the option to engage reverse gear increase engine revs and start to bring the clutch up before releasing the EPB is just not something that can be done.

I have to select reverse while holding down the foot brake. As soon as reverse is selected then Auto Hold is inhibited and the car is held purely by the EPB, and my foot on the brake as well. This is where the real issue begins. I can't begin to reverse as EPB holds the car firm and does not release. I then have to press the release leaver and the parking brake comes off, as you would expect.

Now I'm in a position that I'm holding the car on the foot brake and have to try and get my foot off the brake over to the accelerator in a nano second. Unfortunately because the revs are too low the car starts to roll forward even though it's in reverse (I can't imagine that does the autobox much good).

Only solution that I can find is to use my left foot to hold the brake pedal, and my right foot on the accelerator. Start to build up some engine revs, press the EPB release, and then gently release the foot brake while applying more revs. Sounds simple but not quite so easy when you only have 18" between you and the car in front 🤣

If you got to the end of reading this then well done 👍😀

19 minutes ago, unofix said:

If you are moving forward, either going up or down a hill then Auto Hold works just fine. The problem occurs if you have come to a complete stop on a hill and apply the EPB, like when you park.

When you get back in the car and start the engine, if you have to reverse up the hill (to get out of the parking space) then the EPB will not automatically release, (as it would do if you drove forward). Since my car is an automatic the option to engage reverse gear increase engine revs and start to bring the clutch up before releasing the EPB is just not something that can be done.

I have to select reverse while holding down the foot brake. As soon as reverse is selected then Auto Hold is inhibited and the car is held purely by the EPB, and my foot on the brake as well. This is where the real issue begins. I can't begin to reverse as EPB holds the car firm and does not release. I then have to press the release leaver and the parking brake comes off, as you would expect.

Now I'm in a position that I'm holding the car on the foot brake and have to try and get my foot off the brake over to the accelerator in a nano second. Unfortunately because the revs are too low the car starts to roll forward even though it's in reverse (I can't imagine that does the autobox much good).

Only solution that I can find is to use my left foot to hold the brake pedal, and my right foot on the accelerator. Start to build up some engine revs, press the EPB release, and then gently release the foot brake while applying more revs. Sounds simple but not quite so easy when you only have 18" between you and the car in front 🤣

If you got to the end of reading this then well done 👍😀

I understand now, but I thought that Hill Start Assist was meant to cover that situation but it looks like that is either not enabled if the EPB is enabled or maybe not enabled after you have been parked up. 

20 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I thought that Hill Start Assist was meant to cover that situation

It's an either or thing.

You either have Auto Hold or you have Hill Start Assist, but never both. Most cars now have Auto Hold which is better.

6 minutes ago, unofix said:

It's an either or thing.

You either have Auto Hold or you have Hill Start Assist, but never both. Most cans now have Auto Hold which is better.

So if you started the car with your foot on the Brake, switched the EPB off, switched the Auto Hold off via the switch and put it into reverse would the Hill Start Assist not automatically kick in and hold the car for a few seconds?

My car does not have Hill Start Assist, it only has Auto Hold.

Auto Hold is the newer system which has mostly replaced Hill Start Assist on all automatics as it stops the car creeping forward whilst stopped and the car still in drive.

12 hours ago, unofix said:

If you are moving forward, either going up or down a hill then Auto Hold works just fine. The problem occurs if you have come to a complete stop on a hill and apply the EPB, like when you park.

When you get back in the car and start the engine, if you have to reverse up the hill (to get out of the parking space) then the EPB will not automatically release, (as it would do if you drove forward). Since my car is an automatic the option to engage reverse gear increase engine revs and start to bring the clutch up before releasing the EPB is just not something that can be done.

I have to select reverse while holding down the foot brake. As soon as reverse is selected then Auto Hold is inhibited and the car is held purely by the EPB, and my foot on the brake as well. This is where the real issue begins. I can't begin to reverse as EPB holds the car firm and does not release. I then have to press the release leaver and the parking brake comes off, as you would expect.

Now I'm in a position that I'm holding the car on the foot brake and have to try and get my foot off the brake over to the accelerator in a nano second. Unfortunately because the revs are too low the car starts to roll forward even though it's in reverse (I can't imagine that does the autobox much good).

Only solution that I can find is to use my left foot to hold the brake pedal, and my right foot on the accelerator. Start to build up some engine revs, press the EPB release, and then gently release the foot brake while applying more revs. Sounds simple but not quite so easy when you only have 18" between you and the car in front 🤣

If you got to the end of reading this then well done 👍😀

It is the same on the manual version, easier to rectify as the left foot is on the clutch. I found myself in a similar situation as I'd reverse parked in a Doctors surgery car park space ( uphill gradiant) when I came back out some numpty had parked across the front ov the Focus and an adjacent car and not left enough room for me to swing around. Luckily I had enough room to reverse a good meter or so to give myself room to get out. This is when I found myself in the situation you have. Started the car put it in reverse and it point blank refused to move, tried it a few times to a point where the car rose up at the rear almost to stalling point so I has no option other than to/ too/two/Toooooooooo 🤣 select first gear and move it forward a foot or so and only then it allowed me to go backwards 👍 and I managed to get out ov/ovv 🤣 the tight space and jog on 🤣 home.

 

34 minutes ago, Wino said:

I managed to get out of

Let me help you out. The new 2022 spelling as used by the young'uns (30 and below) is "ov" 🤣

8 minutes ago, unofix said:

Let me help you out. The new 2022 spelling as used by the young'uns (30 and below) is "ov" 🤣

Ah.... so it's either "ov" or "ovv" from now on. 

Corrected my errors ov ways 🤣

The younger generation at our warehouse have started communicating with each other by using the sound ov "ugh" lately. 

Ps ...its taken me 4 attempts to put "ov" instead ov ov ....damn auto correct 😆

1 hour ago, Wino said:

enough room to reverse a good meter

Metre (unless you're a Yank). A meter is a device that measures something .

13 hours ago, unofix said:

if you have to reverse up the hill (to get out of the parking space) then the EPB will not automatically release, (as it would do if you drove forward). Since my car is an automatic the option to engage reverse gear increase engine revs and start to bring the clutch up before releasing the EPB is just not something that can be done.

I have to select reverse while holding down the foot brake. As soon as reverse is selected then Auto Hold is inhibited and the car is held purely by the EPB, and my foot on the brake as well. This is where the real issue begins. I can't begin to reverse as EPB holds the car firm and does not release. I then have to press the release leaver and the parking brake comes off, as you would expect.

Now I'm in a position that I'm holding the car on the foot brake and have to try and get my foot off the brake over to the accelerator in a nano second. Unfortunately because the revs are too low the car starts to roll forward even though it's in reverse (I can't imagine that does the autobox much good).

Only solution that I can find is to use my left foot to hold the brake pedal, and my right foot on the accelerator. Start to build up some engine revs, press the EPB release, and then gently release the foot brake while applying more revs. Sounds simple but not quite so easy when you only have 18" between you and the car in front

How horrendously complicated!! Is this supposed to be progress? As I've said before, just give me a simple, old-fashioned, conventional handbrake.

3 hours ago, mjt said:

Metre (unless you're a Yank). A meter is a device that measures something .

I used my measured meter to measure the metre I needed. One simple stride is all that was required 🙄

There is a software bug.  On my 2019 Focus.  If I parked the car turned the ignition off but dont get out of the car.  When you then restart the car, the electronic hold brake turns off.  I know have a 2022 Mk4.5 and the bug is fixed in this model.

 

 

53 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

There is a software bug.  On my 2019 Focus.  If I parked the car turned the ignition off but dont get out of the car.  When you then restart the car, the electronic hold brake turns off.  I know have a 2022 Mk4.5 and the bug is fixed in this model.

Have exactly the same issue

On 10/31/2022 at 11:25 AM, mjt said:

How horrendously complicated!! Is this supposed to be progress? As I've said before, just give me a simple, old-fashioned, conventional handbrake.

Couldn't agree more.  I had a fright the other day, thought I had applied the EHB with a pull of the switch, but car started moving forward when I got out.  Quickly stuck my head back in the car to pull the handbrake lever, which of course does not work when the ignition is off.  Then had to jump into the car, which was picking up speed by this time and slam on the foot brake.  Ended up halfway across the road and no damage done, but couldn't help thinking nostalgically back to having a great big lever to pull and would be sure it is applied properly!