Well update time, right again Tom 😄

Apologies for the delay, wifes been unwell and half term meant its been left for a bit. 

Cam cover off and 4 rocker springs smashed into bits..... got what i can find out and after slowly cleaning and reassembling i am missing some bits. I can only assume they have gone through the oil holes to the sump which is next to take after and check. 

Any idea if this is determantial to whether i continue or not. I'm assuming that if they are small enough to get out the area they will flush through with some old oil but who knows lol 

 

Valves are all up and appear straight, guessing if they were damaged some would be down so may have landed luckish 😁

 

 

 

Definitely missing quite a few of those needle rollers.  They should all be in the sump though.

I wouldn't be concerned about any further internal damage at this time.

Slightly bent valves won't necessarily stick down.  Ideally need to try to 'eye' the stems for straightness or run them up and down the guides to make sure they don't get tight anywhere.  Would need a valve spring compressor to remove the collets though.  And take care not to let them drop into a cylinder at BDC.  

Honestly, I'd probably just chuck some new rockers on and a new belt and hope for the best now...

On the plus side, those injectors are the cleanest I've seen for a while!

Hahah will update on the rollers soon 🤣

I didn't know you could get a valve compressor that works from above, only seen them that work with head off lol 

They do look ok, but i was going just check sump then risk it with a new belt, water pump and springs.

You being serious or taking ***** on injectors 🤣 i can't quite tell 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

Like Ray I'm curious about how you compress the valve springs from above. Also even if you can then unless there's some way to prevent the valve moving down with the spring as you compress it you still wouldn't be able to get the collets out. Will the piston at TDC hold the valve up high enough?

Even if it is possible it's not something I'd want to risk. Too much chance of losing the valve.

35 minutes ago, mjt said:

ike Ray I'm curious about how you compress the valve springs from above. Also even if you can then unless there's some way to prevent the valve moving down with the spring as you compress it you still wouldn't be able to get the collets out. Will the piston at TDC hold the valve up high enough?

The normal way is to bring each Piston up fairly high and put String in the Cylinder then bring the Piston up as high as it will go with the String taking up the free space.

It was so common at one time that you could easily buy aftermarket tools for Ford OHC Engines and these could be used with other Engines as well with a bit of fiddling.

Well you learn something new everyday lol 

 

 

That looks like a medieval torture device. 

They also come with a large lever handle on top.

 

Not taking the p about the injectors.  They're usually covered in diesel and dirt by this age lol.  Those are genuinely very clean.

I could see that, double up on use even better 🤣

 

Thats good to hear then, did replace 2 not long ago which makes sense lol 

 

Can i ask if the gasket is just a paste or do they sell them as cant find them lol

 

Cam carrier gasket is just liquid.

Will get some of that and have my steady hand on then 😉

Well not looking good, head rebuilt and timing belt on. 

Turning over by hand and its hitting something sounds metal on metal 😐

took belt off and retried but same thing, any ideas at all ?

Ive used the timing holes but is there anything else i have to do with me doing a reset after a snapped belt 

The crank might be one turn out.  Don't forget that rotates twice for every one rotation of the cam.

Was hoping that but still no joy, won't go either way..... 

Walked away tonight before it gets a hammer lol 

Will have a few Madri and try again over the next few evenings 🙃

Surely crank can’t be out by one turn, pistons would be in the same positions. Now that you have tried to turn the engine make sure the a valve hasn’t stuck open.

1 hour ago, KenM said:

Surely crank can’t be out by one turn, pistons would be in the same positions. Now that you have tried to turn the engine make sure the a valve hasn’t stuck open.

Yes, you're right, my mistake.  The camshaft can be 180 degrees out, but the valves would still be 'opposite' the pistons.  Just the fuel would be injected on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke .

So the only possibility here is that a valve is sticking down.  Or the head has broken off a valve and sitting on the piston.  The cam & crank pulleys are both keyed so they can't be in the wrong positions.

Thanks for the thoughts, will have another look over the next evenings but was thinking to check the valves while someone else turns it over slowly to see if the valves are sticking open. 

What is strange is that if i take the belt off both top and bottom rotate freely without any impact so makes me think its something to do with timing but can't see how i can get it wrong with the 3 positioning holes. 

Maybe a slightly bent valve returning up slowly but so many questions running around my head, made worse by the beer lol 😆 

How are you locking the crank out of interest?  Thick pin through the flywheel or thin pin through the crank sensor ring?

**Edit - Just checked, looks like the Mk3 8v uses a totally different flywheel to Mk2 16v.  No locking pin holes.  Mk2 flywheel had 8 different locking holes in it which could have put the timing out if it wasn't double checked at the belt end.

Mk2

Mk3

Are you saying that with the belt off you can turn the crank freely all the way. I would have expected one of the  valves to be open enough to hit a piston.

Interesting thought.  I think all the valves will be closed when the cam is locked in the correct position.  Cylinder 1&4 at TDC on the compression stroke.  Cylinder 2&3 at BDC on the exhaust stroke. 🤔

2 hours ago, KenM said:

I would have expected one of the  valves to be open enough to hit a piston.

Yes I would have thought so. The cam lobes are in pairs set 90^o apart. So two valves open at the 12 O'clock position and then at 3 O'clock etc. etc.

It would seem to me there would be no position of the camshaft that would result in all valves being 100% closed. The best you could archive would be four valves partly open / closed.

Have been trying to find opening and closing degrees for this engine but haven’t found them yet, there is definitely an overlap of vale opening and BDC and TDC but not a large opening. Only one cylinder is on compression stroke and one on exhaust stroke per rotation

14 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

How are you locking the crank out of interest?  Thick pin through the flywheel or thin pin through the crank sensor ring?

**Edit - Just checked, looks like the Mk3 8v uses a totally different flywheel to Mk2 16v.  No locking pin holes.  Mk2 flywheel had 8 different locking holes in it which could have put the timing out if it wasn't double checked at the belt end.

Mk2

Mk3

Hi Tom 

I'm using a small hole through the crank ring sensor aligning with the engine hole at the 12 oclock position. Everything I've watched seems to use this one. 

13 hours ago, KenM said:

Are you saying that with the belt off you can turn the crank freely all the way. I would have expected one of the  valves to be open enough to hit a piston.

Hi Ken 

I'll be rechecking but yes I'm pretty sure nothing hits when rotating the crank with no belt. 

 

Just need the weather to pack it in 🤣

11 hours ago, unofix said:

Yes I would have thought so. The cam lobes are in pairs set 90^o apart. So two valves open at the 12 O'clock position and then at 3 O'clock etc. etc.

It would seem to me there would be no position of the camshaft that would result in all valves being 100% closed. The best you could archive would be four valves partly open / closed.

Thank you, will be relooking at  camshaft with only top cover off and some slow rotations to see if i can see anything more soon 😀