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Mondeo Problem Help !


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#1 cliffy 71

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

first of all hello to everyone and thanks fo taking time to read this.

i have a 53 modeo 20l tdci with 130 duratorque engine.

i have just fitted a new secondhand engine and cannot get it to start.

i got a local garage to come out and re code the injectors and pump,he also had to re code the key for some reason. (they used a snap on diagnostic tool.)

she still wont start ,

i got the car towed to the same local garage and they had a look at it and brought up a cam sensor fault ,which they re placed with a new one .

she still wont start. they said there was no more they could do  so now im stuck ,can anybody suggest what my next step would be thanks .



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#2 bladeage

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

I would say you have checked the obvious.....fuel getting to injectors, glow plugs working, crank angle sensor (gearbox), crank angle sensor will stop it working altogether so check it is getting a signal.

 

If you sit turning it over for 15 seconds is there any sign of smoke out of the exhaust at all?



#3 bladeage

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

What was wrong with the original engine?



#4 cliffy 71

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:14 PM

What was wrong with the original engine?

the original engine had a knackered bottom end but ran the second hand engine ran too.no sign of any smoke on start up but engine starts on easy start spray briefly. I swapped the three piece clutch as well I dont suppose the fly wheel could be in wrong position could it.

#5 bladeage

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:31 PM

I am really not sure about the flywheel being in the wrong position and am not aware this could cause the problem but I did have major problems with a crank angle sensor that kept picking debris up (sticking to the magnet) and cutting the engine, the sensor is on top of the gearbox. Not showing mam how to suck eggs etc but it is worth a try, also whilst it is out test you have a signal to it with a multimeter.

As silly as it sounds are all the engine earths sound?



#6 cliffy 71

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

Have already tried two crank sensors the earths seem to be in the correct places but there dosnt seem to be any fuel pressure as iv said it will start up on easy start for a second or two the only things I can think of is 1) the fly wheel in wrong position so crank sensor not picking up signal ,but I think it had a dowl to locate it so can't be wrong. 2) when building new engine back up I thought I could get round the pump having to re coded so I swapped the two electrical parts from the original pump . Every thing
was recoded anyway and no faults were brought up on snap on diagnostics.what are your thoughts on these things please everyone .

#7 stef123

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

The engine running on easy start isn't really proving anything apart from you have compression - it's probably igniting due to this.

Have you checked that you don't have an airlock in the fuel system and that you are getting fuel to the pump?

#8 cliffy 71

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

How do I bleed fuel system please as my Haynes says its self bleeding thanks.

#9 stef123

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

How do I bleed fuel system please as my Haynes says its self bleeding thanks.

Does your car have a pump in the tank? I know some do..

I would start by making sure the filter is brimmed with fuel. Your car will be the metal canister type? Remove the lines from it and fill it with diesel until its right at the top. Refit and try that.

The flywheel only fits in one position as there is a locating dowel on the crankshaft - to answer what you said above

#10 BOF

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

... but there dosnt seem to be any fuel pressure as iv said it will start up on easy start for a second or two...

 

If there isn't any fuel pressure, that'll be enough to prevent the engine starting. I'm not sure that there is any point in worrying about dowels and stuff until you get some fuel pressure. Also, the engine running on the easy start briefly seems to agree with  idea that fuel supply is the problem, so, even if you do have another problem you have to do something about fuel pressure, otherwise it will be no go.

 

My feeling is that the fuel pump coding and ECU is a possible source of the problem, and that the system, not having authenticated the pump against the ECU is in anti-theft mode. So, what exactly did you do to get around the re-coding problem?



#11 FOCA

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:56 PM

Ok here goes - the injectors have to be coded to the ECU, because you have changed the engine, it will have different injectors on it, pre 2002/3-ish injectors/ ECU injectors are a "nightmare", can be very difficult to code  and different from post 2002/3-ish  injectors, there are many different types of injectors and different ECUs pre/ post 2002/3 pre 2003 may not be OBD11 compatible  

 

The lift pump (at the tank) if it has one, does not have to be coded, the main pump as far as i am aware, does not have to be coded to the ECU, thats the TDDI (the injectors need to be on the TDCI though)

 

You might have to get the ECU (to match the "new" engines injectors) the control module, all the locks and the keys off the car that the engine was in to get it to start/ work,  

 

Alternatively you could use all the electrical parts (including the injectors) off your old engine, 

 

Im not sure if recoding has made this not possible now - im not convinced the recoding was sucssesful anyway due to the problems recoding the injectors to the ECU on this particular year of car  

 

What fault codes do you get now?



#12 cliffy 71

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

the garage is not getting any fault codes and as iv said the injectors etc have been re coded to car by the same garage using a snap on gadget.by the way the injectors were off the old engine,changed over to the correct cylinders.   the car is still with the garage at the mo and iv give them your advice about fuel air locks( which i admit the aluminuim filter in the engine bay was totally empty when we connected it up ) as the good old haynes said it was self bleeding! i will up date you all as thing happen cheers guys.



#13 FOCA

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:16 PM

Yes its "self bleeding" but the battery will probably go flat long before the system is bled (you have to turn the engine over for "ages") even if you fill the fuel filter with diesel - i always use a second car + jumpleads or a high power booster etc to bleed the system (and thats just after a fuel filter change)

 

hope you get it sorted    



#14 cliffy 71

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

I really hope it's that simple cheers .will keep you posted

#15 cliffy 71

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:40 PM

Hi all finally got it going where the garage failed ! It was the crank sensor was slightly too high . Now it is only running on 3 pots ( 2nd from timing belt off ) and smoking like hell I would welcome your thoughts on that and best way to test it thankyou.

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