madmole Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Sensors tend to fail totally, intermittent problems are normally down to frayed or worn wires and connections or holes in tubing. They are the things sensitive to movement and temperatureUsing the OBD meter check that the MAF, MAP, HEGO/02, crank sensors are indeed putting out realistic values, if they are then they should be ok. put on logging and go round your roundabout to recreate the issue and see which sensors show problems. if more than one, siuspect battery/voltage issues (connections)Having the cat smell, could the cat be blocked, this would give similar issues. How many miles are on it? Probably going to be a combination of a few sensors past their prime and maybe a vacuum leak somewhere. maybe a blocked breather tube Also as the car takes a while to relearn settings, don't expect a miracle cure when you do fix major items, it will take a while for the car to adjust to the new fuelling conditions, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 54000 on the clock, just very frustrating for a 4 year old car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Bit early for a blocked cat as well!, but the smell says its overheating which means you are running rich and overfuelling Probably a lambda/hego sensor, MAF or inlet sensor then What do they look like on the diagnostics, what sort of values are you getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 I do get a whif of petrol when I start the car cold. My only worry now is I might change all the sensors in the car before I !Removed! find the issue. What's even more annoying us that it's an intermittent fault. I don't think I'm ever gonna sort this out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Definitely over fueling then So it will be one of the sensors that is linked to the fueling algorithm or a leaking injector (the rail is high pressure so the injector empties the rail into the cylinder when engine off, hence a big dollop of unburnt petrol gets dumped into the cat upon start up) Note the values of the sensors at idle, 2500 rpm and 4000 rpm and lets see if they are reasonable Pop the spark plugs and look at the colour and if one is wetter than the others, that will give you a clue as to what injector to suspect (if any) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Ok do you know of any decent live data software I could use that is free my app im using is very limited. But this may help. Much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Im loving Forscan on my laptop, free and pretty good functionally. bit of a hassle with the modified 327 cables an what not so I just purchased a wifi adaptor to help with gathering data. I think there is an iOS version too, nothing for WP or android Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCA Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 is there any way we could test the throttle pedal to eliminate it as a suspect? Yes, you could disconnect it and put a multimeter on it (set on resistance/ ohms) then move the throttle in its range and see if there are any jumps or "dropouts" (sudden loss of continuity) - it should have a smooth progression of resistance in its range/ travel a Faulty/ intermitant fault TPS (throttle position sensor) could cause "kangaroo-ing" (because the ECU "thinks" you are pumping the throttle from the signal it recieves when it is actually a steady throttle opening OP- Overfuelling/ smell of petrol - if one or more of the plugs is not firing (constantly or intermittantly)/ eg missing or running on 3 - it can send unburnt fuel through the non-firing cylinder through the cat and out of the exhaust Checked plugs yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 The plugs are only 1 month old would it be still worth while checking them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Yes, you want to see the burn colour and wetness of the plugs, rather than worry about the plug itself (also check the gaps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Smell of petrol on start of a cold car is not unusual as the auto choke takes a bit to settle into the correct fuelling if youre still getting it 1 minute after start up then its over fuelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I've given in and booked it in with my local ford to dealer for Thursday morning. I'm hoping they sort it out finally managed, or it will have to be a new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic113 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I've given in and booked it in with my local ford to dealer for Thursday morning. I'm hoping they sort it out finally managed, or it will have to be a new car. hopefully they can sort the problem out for you. good luck! keep us posted on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hi, my car has been with ford all day. Only just got the car back,and I can report the car is fixed. They did a full check and diagnosis check and found the engine breather pipe disconnected from the rocker cover to the air box. Feels a lot better now plus I ended up needing 2 new tyres aswell. Everything else they checked was ok like the oxygen sensor and coils. How does this pipe come off as I've had these issues for over a year and what potential damage could I have done. Sent from my iPad using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It clips into the airbox isnt the securest design if you take a look at the pipe out the rocker and trace it down it simply has a set of tabs you push in with youre finger and it pops off i opened up the airbox where you can see the pipes connected and applied a bit of glue to the pipe just a dot on the top of it and pop it back in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Low and behold took the car for a 10 mile spin just and the surging and hesitation has returned. The car felt amazing up yo that point,lovely and smooth. Then I went round a roundabout in 2nd gear.... The car started surging and bucking again and then looses power after that. Ford found no issues apart from the breather pipe, no ecu codes and the 02 sensor and everything else was fine. What can I do now as it looks like it's the end of the road for my car, it's a shame as I don't wanna chop it in. Sent from my iPad using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy45 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Once the car has started hesitating and surging does it stay like that till you stop driving, then repeats on next drive after the same 10 mins or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 It only really does it round slow corners. After it did this the car didn't feel right until I got home which was a couple of miles . it always does this. So in the morning it's a guess to see if it'd gone or still hesitates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy45 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Could it be fuel starvation of some sort, or fuel tank/fuel pump related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Yeah my local indy garage said it could be fuel pump related. Not worth the cost may as well chop the car in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic113 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Low and behold took the car for a 10 mile spin just and the surging and hesitation has returned. The car felt amazing up yo that point,lovely and smooth. Then I went round a roundabout in 2nd gear.... The car started surging and bucking again and then looses power after that. Ford found no issues apart from the breather pipe, no ecu codes and the 02 sensor and everything else was fine. What can I do now as it looks like it's the end of the road for my car, it's a shame as I don't wanna chop it in. Sent from my iPad using Ford OC did you check the pipe has not come loose again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yep still connected. Drove nice all day today. Until a little bit of hesitation and the roughness returned. Arrrhhhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic113 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yep still connected. Drove nice all day today. Until a little bit of hesitation and the roughness returned. Arrrhhhhhhhh I think if ford have not found anything then it may be something simple enough. I would of presumed they would of checked the fuel delivery pressure ect so they would of known if the fuel pump or other was a bit faulty and suggested a repair. Since that pipe was off/slack and it drove ok when you got it back but now its driving bad again I do believe that it may have something to do with the air flow, I would possibly double check all air/vacum pipes for splits or blockages or even small kinks as its seems to me that the car may hesitate and feel under powered when it could be being starved of air intake in some way when under certain driving conditions. do you get this more when driving in lower gears? do you notice this more when engine is cold or warmed up? also is your exhaust/cat in good condition in terms of airflow restriction? I was thinking if the flow of the gases was getting in any way or form restricted it may give you this hesitation when under load (hill driving or maybe acceleration up the gears ect) as they may not be escaping fast enough and in a way chocking the engine like a back draft kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetecShearer1987 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 It's more in Lower round town gears I get the roughness. Cat was checked and ok so was the lambda sensors. It runs smoothly round town until I go round a sharpish corner or turn. How would i test all of the vacuum pipes. Perhaps it is something with the air as when I got it back straight from ford it ran like a dream. Then the hesitation came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Im not a mechanic I'm more of a computer geek, fault finding is more theoretical, then what you can physically observe, With that in mind Isn't the cornering the key part here, slow speed low rpm, hesitation appears? What happens with high speed cornering? What happens with slow speed high rpm? On the same slow corners Can you get a laptop and a elm 327, use forscan and monitor fuel usage on all If it is just slow speed low rpm then what would be affected, air wouldn't unless something physically falling off, out or into its path, liquids on the other hand would be affected by centripetal forces, on the hill gravity should give a similar effect, if its high rpm is fine but low isn't it might suggest one of those forces is reducing fuel delivery, the higher throuput that comes with high rpm might offset this... I'm probably talking crap but perhaps if you can answer those questions it might direct you a bit towards a solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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