32 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

It just occurred to me that the phone industry totally transformed in the other direction! When my old Nokia was getting low in charge, I simply slid the back off, and inserted a fresh recharged battery. Now, they are all sealed and people spend an age charging the darn things up, wondering if they have enough juice to last a day - a replaceable battery was so much more simple!

And, with the Nokia, you could get a larger capacity battery that just clipped into place (just like rechargeable power tools).

There has been efforts. But, some realities intervened. The subject “package “ is highly reactive chemically. It’s also fragile. Placing that into a rolling chassis introduced several different and potentially competing issues.

first is safety. Can the battery be kept in a stable condition? Should the containment of the cells be part of the body structure? What technology is required to quickly recharge the battery module without causing a significant lifespan degradation of that battery (the most expensive single component of an EV). How many cycles are a reasonable expectation of battery life?

crash worthyness. What should the structure do to protect occupants and battery?

serviceability. What must be compromised to get a vehicle with an easily accessible battery? Would it be passenger comfort ,driving range or something else?

the idea of a removable battery is attractive but the upfront cost of creating the exchange infrastructure is very daunting. I would guess that they could make it attractive if they were to sell or lease the vehicle separately from the battery as part of a “use and exchange agreement “. This tactic would have the effect of shifting the cost of the battery to it’s own business plan and lowering the build cost of the vehicle which could drive onto the shipping method to the sales point on a temporary, very limited range and functionality battery. That source would be replaced by a full service package upon delivery to the end user. That is just a “guess it could work” kind of postulation.

 I view the entire electrified vehicle concept as only being viable for short or limited range use. I don’t believe that it is really very “green “ or that it is cost effective in a broad sense of the expense of the supporting infrastructure to make it more viable for widespread use. 
I am just a technician that has been working within the industry in Metro Detroit for twenty two years. Advances are happening. But, I am afraid that the industry and government are not going to have the revolutionary epiphany that is required to make it a viable reality. 

 

 

 

Under pressure from Berlin, the EU relaxes its ban on combustion engines after 2035

https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/25/under-pressure-from-berlin-the-eu-relaxes-its-ban-on-combustion-engines-after-2035

 

26 minutes ago, YOG said:

Under pressure from Berlin, the EU relaxes its ban on combustion engines after 2035

https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/25/under-pressure-from-berlin-the-eu-relaxes-its-ban-on-combustion-engines-after-2035

 

I'm shocked - just when we leave, the EU appears to have some common sense! I'm sure other extensions will follow as the world realises that banning a century of car engineering so quickly causes more issues than St Greta ever could foresee, though she's still awfully young to have any proper worldly experience...

20 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I'm shocked - just when we leave, the EU appears to have some common sense! I'm sure other extensions will follow as the world realises that banning a century of car engineering so quickly causes more issues than St Greta ever could foresee, though she's still awfully young to have any proper worldly experience...

Let's be honest, the EU is Germany!

From what I have seen, I don’t believe that Britain has actually left the EU! 
If The Parliament can make policy that basically allows EU law to override British common law, what is that called? 
My attention has been diverted by the odd lack of action or interest our own government seems to have regarding the equal application of several of the most fundamental laws and principles in my own country. We are living in strange times!

4 minutes ago, Scottman said:

... We are living in strange times!

We are indeed, oh, and Britain did technically leave the EU, but accidentally left us in Northern Ireland behind LOL

Coincidentally I was reading a very interesting piece about Porsche producing synthetic fuel in Chile, with the conclusion that they had at least proved that it was technically possible. No doubt the Germans have used this in their argument.

Drawback is that it is approx twice as expensive to produce at present as fossil derived fuel but that could of course change.

All getting very interesting though. I wonder how our lot will react?

I’m guessing that synthetic fuels will only be used on the race track or by rich folk. It’s not for us plebs. 

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I'm shocked - just when we leave, the EU appears to have some common sense! I'm sure other extensions will follow as the world realises that banning a century of car engineering so quickly causes more issues than St Greta ever could foresee, though she's still awfully young to have any proper worldly experience...

Momentums starting!

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ferrari-ceo-welcomes-eu-decision-e-fuels-2023-03-27/

 

Can’t wait to replace my Focus with a Ferrari 

1 minute ago, alexp999 said:

Can’t wait to replace my Focus with a Ferrari 

Didn't know Ferrari did an EcoBoost LOL

Just now, StephenFord said:

Didn't know Ferrari did an EcoBoost LOL

They call it an EcoBoosto

14 hours ago, alexp999 said:

They call it an EcoBoosto

But will it go EcoBoomo 💣💥💥

I'm puzzled as to how the exemption to the ICE ban for vehicles running on e-fuels is going to work.

From my understanding of the stuff I've read about synthetic fuel, the end product complies with the same standards as normal petrol, produces identical performance and can be used 100% or blended with existing fuels to reduce the carbon content, in the same way that ethanol has been added. 

So any ICE vehicle would be exempt on that basis? And if existing fuels are still available, what's to stop it being used in an "exempt" car. Are we going to see different size filler necks/pump nozzles as with petrol/diesel. Or should I just have paid more attention in science lessons? It's probably not an issue at present due to the cost differential, but things can change, of course.

I did see today various reports of backlash against this from the "greens". The theme seemed to be this will "delay decarbonisation" and "slow the shift to electric".

But hang on a minute. If e-fuel is carbon neutral it's not delaying decarbonisation and as long as we're doing that, does it matter how we do it? One might begin to suspect there's a pro-battery conspiracy going on. 

 

6 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

But hang on a minute. If e-fuel is carbon neutral it's not delaying decarbonisation and as long as we're doing that, does it matter how we do it? One might begin to suspect there's a pro-battery conspiracy going on. ..

There are numerous large infrastructure projects over the years where government has got it so wrong, but get in so deep, very quickly, it's 'politically' expedient just to carry on. HS2 had an initial budget of £31 Billion - now, still nowhere near completion with a predicted finishing budget of £120 Billion. 

COVID squandered £37 Billion on a track & trace system that never worked, and many of us professed it was totally unnecessary in the 1st place. I'm sure when government 1st started on their banning of ICE and mass conversion to the population to use battery cars, they may have had a figure in mind, but I feel confident that figure is now blown out of the water. But, we're in too deep to stop, and governments never want to admit they were wrong.

Battery cars have very little to do with saving the Earth (mass production of 1000Kg Lithium Ion batteries would tell any person with a modicum of common sense on the ridiculousness of them), much more to keep the political wheels of power in motion...

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

governments never want to admit they were wrong.

Indeed. Don't know about you, but I'd actually have more confidence in them if they did. 

2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Indeed. Don't know about you, but I'd actually have more confidence in them if they did. 

Well, there is one example, but it took 40 odd years, and a £200 Million enquiry before Cameron finally did (2010). Won't quote it here as I don't want to over politicise the post...

This is a lengthy video ... but the compensation is a pleasant spin on a motorbike while Stuart Fillingham get his various points across!

 

This topic has started to degenerate into a bun fight and will be locked yo avoid further degeneration.

A lot of us on these forums have differing views on the pros and cons of different energy sources for our cars - ICE, BEV, MHEV, FHEV, PHEV etc. and I'm sure have some interesting thoughts to share.

Is the country's charging network good enough yet and do you think it ever will be? Should the government be investing more in EV infrastructure, given that purely ICE driven cars will be banned within 8 years???

5 hours ago, alanfp said:

A lot of us on these forums have differing views on the pros and cons of different energy sources for our cars - ICE, BEV, MHEV, FHEV, PHEV etc. and I'm sure have some interesting thoughts to share.

Is the country's charging network good enough yet and do you think it ever will be? Should the government be investing more in EV infrastructure, given that purely ICE driven cars will be banned within 8 years???

Your opening a can of worms here. Lots of headline grabbing  mis information and plain untruths will follow for sure from both divides of the debate. Good luck. 

Welcome back guys...👍

Change of title, 'Energy chat, the future of car propulsion', and a change of location (general chat), but still the same topic... 

On 3/27/2023 at 5:39 PM, YOG said:

Under pressure from Berlin, the EU relaxes its ban on combustion engines after 2035

https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/25/under-pressure-from-berlin-the-eu-relaxes-its-ban-on-combustion-engines-after-2035

 

Grant Shapps, Transport Secretary says, “We are not in Europe, we don’t have to do what Europe does” with regard to EU’s e-fuel ruling.

Obviously too stupid to understand the difference between Europe and the EU!

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6774/2035-petrol-and-diesel-ban-synthetic-fuel-cars-could-be-allowed#gref

I'm sure the Porsche and Ferrari execs will know which palms to grease in the UK.

Plus we may not be directly following EU rules, but global car manufacturers are not going to do UK special editions of things, we are going to get what is designed for Europe regardless.