On 1/11/2023 at 4:38 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

and perhaps someone may come up with a 100kwh battery the size of a button cell that can be charged in 5 minutes to give 750 miles of range.

Roger !!!

Have you been drinking meths again ?? 🤣

1 minute ago, unofix said:

Have been drinking meths again ?? 🤣

Well, you never know, the 3rd generation DeLorean time machine ditched the original Flux Capacitor, and ran on regular kitchen waste! LOL

Whilst this is all good banter the fact is that battery development is continuing with some technologies potentially offering the same energy density as fossil fuel so it's entirely feasible that EV range will eventually equal or even exceed ICE. Research is also ongoing into the causes of battery degradation which, if successful, would mean the risks of buying a used EV would be a lot less. Prices of new EVs are still too high though. I considered going for an EV when I traded in the Ecoboost (I must admit I do find the instant massive torque available from an electric motor very tempting) but that put me off.

One point that's often missed when discussing running costs is the much lower servicing costs of an electric drive train. It's so much simpler that servicing must be almost unnecessary other than an occasional change of transmission oil, some brake pads and a pollen filter.

When you consider all the junk that has had to be bolted onto IC engines to try and reduce running emissions, with all the attendant problems they've caused, it's obvious they are never going to compete with EVs.

Very good points, Mike, and as I jokingly mentioned we can't discount the possibility, however remote  it might seem now, of a new deve!opment taking us all by surprise.

When you look at the problems that get raised on this forum, many of them are indeed not related to any inherent deficiency in an i/c engine, more the various measures which, as you say, have been added to it to deal with the fuel we put in it.

It does seem to many that a little more R&D into cleaning up fuels (e.g. synthetic) would have bought us a significant reduction in emissions fairly quickly, buying us much more time to evaluate and develop the alternatives which would probably include EVs for some applications anyway.

Unfortunately we won't find out (or not for a considerable time) what the best solution(s) may be, because of the rush to EVs now.

I've chatted to the lads in my local garage (who service my Mrs's car) about EV servicing as they now have several customers bringing in things like older Nissan Leafs (Leaves?). It is, as you say, basically a matter of everything not engine related with perhaps a higher incidence of prematurely rusty brake discs (which don't get used much because of regen braking). 

They have seen the odd failure of components such as inverters which they just have to swap, but as I mentioned earlier, it's a bit soon to predict whether this kind of thing will be rare or commonplace.

But it is nice to have a bit of banter!

 

 

Certainly technologies like capturing CO2 and creating synthetic fuels from it, or producing hydrogen from renewable energy, would make IC engines pretty much carbon neutral although you might still have the problems of particulates (accepting that these would still come from brakes and tyres on EVs as well). Even so IC drivetrains are very complex compared with an electric motor. Why go to the trouble of having a multi-ratio gearbox (manual or auto) and clutch (manual or fluid flywheel) when you can have a single-ratio drive direct from motor to wheels? In the fullness of time I predict each wheel will be driven by it's own motor which will give simple 4-wheel drive whilst dispensing with the need for differentials and allow ABS and ESP to be implemented without needing to use the friction braking system.

I already have the problem of rusty brake discs because since retirement our cars can spend several weeks sitting unused, especially during the winter. During the lockdowns the discs on our Mk3 Ecoboost got so rusty that they didn't properly self-clean when the car was used again and the brakes felt really rough right up to the time I traded it in. They were nearly new discs too. I agree that's going to be a major problem with regenerative braking but I suppose the upside is less brake dust. Maybe if it proves to be a big enough problem the manufacturers will have to adopt non-corrosive materials.

I have no argument with the properties of electric motors, as demonstrated by their almost universal adoption in the field of railways, for example.

The issue is where the electricity comes from. In the case of a railway with a fixed network, catenary or third rail is a practical option. 

For road vehicles, apart from the odd scheme to string wires over motorways, we are basically left with batteries or fuel cells, which to many of us seem to be the better option.

Yes, the hydrogen needs to be produced using "green" electricity, but the same argument applies to BEV charging it it is to be truly emission free.

I'm not arguing for one to the exclusion of the other - I think there are roles for both, and probably other solutions as yet untried - but jumping wholesale for BEV now may delay ultimately better solutions. 

Not had any brake dust on my wheels since Oct . There not even getting much general dirt either. Wheels are designed for aerodynamics so assume air flow is having some effect on why they stay so clean.

Got plenty of caustic and non caustic wheel cleaners in the garage. Might as well tip them down the drain 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4062705/wyoming-proposes-stop-sale-electric-vehicles-2035?utm_id=17ab95aa3dca11352b2ddf93425bcb20

3 minutes ago, eddie eastwood said:

https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4062705/wyoming-proposes-stop-sale-electric-vehicles-2035?utm_id=17ab95aa3dca11352b2ddf93425bcb20

Interesting that they want to phase EVs out 'voluntarily', but our nutters want to introduce them by mandate...

'Phasing Out New Electric Vehicle Sales By 2035' — that urges citizens and companies in the state to reduce the sale and purchase of EVs voluntarily.

Well that will be interesting 🤔

So does the state of Wyoming think that there will be enough people in just one state for a whole car industry to restart making petrol and diesel engine cars just for them ?

Something seems wrong !

If Wyoming are genuinely concerned that there won't be enough petrol and diesel vehicles about to use all the oil they have. Then they could build some oil fired generating stations, produce lots of cheap electricity and solve all their worries in one simple move.

 

I have just watched episode 10 of, 'Mike Brewers World of Cars' dedicated to EVs. No matter what your politics are towards them, they are technically very impressive!

One custom maker of EVs has actually replicated a VW display down to so much detail that he has added 'dust' into the indicator display as apparent every vintage VW indicator has speckles of dust in it!

Apparently quite a few 'million mile' Teslas knocking around now on original motors (not batteries!).

Like I said when I started this thread, I'm not against EVs, just against government making them compulsory...

https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/17/wyoming_electric_vehicles_ban/

Wyoming's would-be ban on sale of electric vehicles veers off road

11

Like crude oil and water, cowboys and EVs don't mix

On 1/16/2023 at 9:36 PM, StephenFord said:

Interesting that they want to phase EVs out 'voluntarily', but our nutters want to introduce them by mandate...

'Phasing Out New Electric Vehicle Sales By 2035' — that urges citizens and companies in the state to reduce the sale and purchase of EVs voluntarily.

I saw that last night and had to re read it as I thought they had got the title wrong. Money talks?

I will be honest though, I do love petrol engines, the sound, smell and everything. There is something about them, like Vinyl Records making a come back too.

Electric Cars I agree are the future, but they all sound the exact same, just with a different body on.

Petrol engines are the heart of the car and all sound and act differently. Each has its own DNA.

May be just me getting old in my old age lol

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For gazers of the supermarket magazine shelves, very interesting article in this weeks Autocar. It makes quite a convincing argument that the best thing environmentally would be to keep cars longer. 

The financial/environmental model on which the article is based is a 20-25 year life cycle on a manufacturer lease basis for the first 20 then either resold to the private market for its remaining useful life or dismantled and recycled. Major refurbishments would take place at 4/5 years intervals.

The argument is that an ICE car to Euro 7 regulations could have twice the useful life of an EV with a lower overall emissions footprint

A very interesting read, whatever your views on ICE vs EV.

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

The financial/environmental model on which the article is based is a 20-25 year life cycle...

So my 18 year old car (2005 Mk2) is right on target then LOL

Hydrogen is rolling ever upwards and onwards as a genuine 'green' fuel of the future, ensuring that when we look back the green evolution, EVs will be the 'betamax' of car development. Wrightbus here in NI is a fantastic innovator, and is backed by JCB. I love seeing their new buses pass me on the trip to their new owners in the UK and abroad...

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/wrightbus-planning-to-invest-millions-in-new-green-hydrogen-project-in-ballymena/666981416.html

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Hydrogen is rolling ever upwards and onwards

Ford are developing a new hydrogen engine to replace the Ecoboost. It's going to be known as the Hydroboom 🤣

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Ford are developing a new hydrogen engine to replace the Ecoboost. It's going to be known as the Hydroboom 🤣

It'll certainly go like a bomb!😃

I guess that hydrogen could be viable for delivery truck fleets that have dedicated routes and a central home base.

But, I have seen first hand what is involved in the generation, process and storage of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel. I didn’t see anything about it I would call “green”.

Frankly, compressed natural gas is a much less complicated alternative vehicle fuel than hydrogen. But, it suffers from being a petroleum product and the fact that it is a true “point of use zero emission fuel” causes the petrol haters to cover their ears and begin yammering to drown out the reality of the situation is just a symptom of the political mental illness that is rampant today.

42 minutes ago, Scottman said:

But, I have seen first hand what is involved in the generation, process and storage of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel. I didn’t see anything about it I would call “green”.

There's not much 'green' about the production of 1000Kg EV batteries either LOL And it would certainly make more sense to distribute hydrogen for refuelling into the existing network of fuel stations rather than trying to build a futile network of electric chargers...

6 hours ago, StephenFord said:

EVs will be the 'betamax' of car development

Surely the Video 2000 of car development, as Betamax was technically superior? 🙂

I think it's a great idea. Fill your car up with water and away you go 😉

According to various posts on here, many Fords fill themselves with water automatically!