Yet another mk3 timing belt thread

[mjt]

I understand what you're saying Unofix but I did qualify my comment by saying 'the same terms or better'. If the Ford dealership warranty doesn't cover consequential losses I'd still say the indie is worthy of consideration. If it does then it's probably worth paying the extra for peace of mind.

Tom, Unless you're saying a Ford technician will do a better, more reliable job - and can you be sure of that in every case? - there's an equal likelihood of sudden failure.

[TomsFocus]

26 minutes ago, mjt said:

Tom, Unless you're saying a Ford technician will do a better, more reliable job - and can you be sure of that in every case? - there's an equal likelihood of sudden failure.

It's really a question of who you trust.  Some people on here have known their dealerships for years and trust them.  Others have more negative experiences.

Personally I wouldn't trust anyone to do a wetbelt change on a 1.0EB at all.  Genuinely surprises me that people will pay a grand or more to have it done on a 10 year old car that could blow a gearbox the next day.

I regretted changing the belt on the Mk2.  Even though I did it myself, I still couldn't trust it had been done properly.  So the work was pointless as I still didn't have peace of mind afterwards.

[mburdett555]

Other than checking the oil and strainer for bits of belt are there any other symptoms of a wet belt close to failure? If I'm going to let it fail and save a few grand , I could get my local garage to take the engine cover off and check the condition 

[unofix]

1 hour ago, mburdett555 said:

I could get my local garage to take the engine cover off and check the condition 

You can't inspect the condition of the wet belts without taking the engine apart, at which point you may as well just replace it.

[FastandBulbous]

21 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The thing with a timing belt change is that you're only doing it for the peace of mind that it won't (or shouldn't!) fail within the next few years.

If you go for a super cheap price and are then constantly worried about the job not having been done to the best standard, there was really no point having it done at all.

Not suggesting they don't do the best job for a third of the price, but drivers leaving reviews on belt changes don't really know how much has been done or how well...they left the car working, and it still works after, that's all their review is based on.

I've been stung before getting big jobs done on the cheap only to have regretted it later, gut feel is the same would happen with this.

As you say, it's preventative maintenance, forking out so much on a 10 year old car just feels wrong  

[unofix]

13 minutes ago, FastandBulbous said:

forking out so much on a 10 year old car just feels wrong

I can understand how you feel.

You can just leave it and accept the fact that at some point it may well fail. The cost of the preventative work carried out by Ford will be around £1500. This of course only deals with the one potential problem.

The cost of a replacement new engine is currently around £3000 supplied and fitted by PumaSpeed and the whole thing comes with a warranty.

It's place your bets time and hope for the best 😉

[TomsFocus]

41 minutes ago, unofix said:

You can't inspect the condition of the wet belts without taking the engine apart, at which point you may as well just replace it.

Not sure I agree.  The plastic cam cover often leaks on the 1.0EB, it's not a massive job to remove and then you can see a good few inches of cambelt across the top of the cam sprockets.  Should be able to see if there's any degradation on it.  Granted it's not a 5 minute job, but still much quicker than stripping down the main belt cover.

[mburdett555]

17 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Not sure I agree.  The plastic cam cover often leaks on the 1.0EB, it's not a massive job to remove and then you can see a good few inches of cambelt across the top of the cam sprockets.  Should be able to see if there's any degradation on it.  Granted it's not a 5 minute job, but still much quicker than stripping down the main belt cover.

That's the picture I had in my mind not sure how much a few inches would help (although you'd be surprised what a few inches can do 😉 )

Maybe if the teeth are starting to wear down or something then it is a good sign to replace it 

Assume you don't need to replace any parts to see the cams ? Some one said earlier the belt change required a high pressure fuel pipe change , not sure if that would be required if taking the necessary top parts off (it'll be by local trusted indie garage doing this so want to let them know before they get any surprises )

[FastandBulbous]

Mine also needs a service.  When I spoke to Ford they suggested they'd be able to advise on the condition of the cambelt at the same time and give me some advice as to the condition, so I assume you can inspect it to a degree.

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, mburdett555 said:

That's the picture I had in my mind not sure how much a few inches would help (although you'd be surprised what a few inches can do 😉 )

Maybe if the teeth are starting to wear down or something then it is a good sign to replace it 

Assume you don't need to replace any parts to see the cams ? Some one said earlier the belt change required a high pressure fuel pipe change , not sure if that would be required if taking the necessary top parts off (it'll be by local trusted indie garage doing this so want to let them know before they get any surprises )

The fuel rail does have to be removed before the cam cover can be removed.  So that will disturb the pump>rail pipe.  You'd also probably have to replace the cam cover gasket.  And possibly injector gaskets.  It's not a job I've actually done I'm afraid.

Just found this on YouTube.  

 

[mburdett555]

1 hour ago, FastandBulbous said:

Mine also needs a service.  When I spoke to Ford they suggested they'd be able to advise on the condition of the cambelt at the same time and give me some advice as to the condition, so I assume you can inspect it to a degree.

Hmm maybe cheaper to go in via the sump? Then they only need to get some sealant 

[TomsFocus]

33 minutes ago, mburdett555 said:

Hmm maybe cheaper to go in via the sump? Then they only need to get some sealant 

Exhaust has to be removed to remove the sump so that's not a quick job either.  Though you can at least check the oil pump belt & strainer as well from underneath.

[unofix]

... and I stand by statement

12 hours ago, unofix said:

You can't inspect the condition of the wet belts without taking the engine apart,

Lots of ideas here but the fact remains a proper meaning full inspection can not be completed with out major dismantling. Yes you might see a few inches of the cam belt from the top, but I doubt inspection of the teeth would be possible. The oil belt and oil strainer can only be inspected by removing the sump, which is quite an event in anyone's book by the time you've managed to remove the rusted bolts holding the exhaust on.

[TomsFocus]

You can see the teeth using a mirror.  That video on Youtube would suggest there's quite a bit of space at the top as the belt isn't separated from the cam area.  Plenty of space to fit one of these between the sprockets.

Personally I do think half an hour spent accessing the top end would be worthwhile.  Then filtering the waste oil to see if there are any rubber particles in there.

[FastandBulbous]

On 12/14/2022 at 12:58 PM, FastandBulbous said:

Anyone have any experience with these guys?  Ford are quoting me 1500 just for the cam belt.  I also had the same quote as above from Northwest Engines.

If anyone else is looking to get this done I ended up using North West Engines, Ford wanted 2k for what they did for "just" 800:

• Both wet belts
• Water pump
• oil
• Filters
• Cleaned oil pick up

They seem like a really good bunch.  Sent me photos of the engine in bits with the old belt on and another with the new one on.  When I went to pick it up the mechanic was in the office, he'd kept the old belt which, unfortunately for me I guess, had started to crack but wasn't in too bad condition.  

[mburdett555]

13 hours ago, FastandBulbous said:

If anyone else is looking to get this done I ended up using North West Engines, Ford wanted 2k for what they did for "just" 800:

• Both wet belts
• Water pump
• Oil
• Filters
• Cleaned oil pick up

They seem like a really good bunch.  Sent me photos of the engine in bits with the old belt on and another with the new one on.  When I went to pick it up the mechanic was in the office, he'd kept the old belt which, unfortunately for me I guess, had started to crack but wasn't in too bad condition.  

Is yours a 2013? And how many miles had you done when you got it changed for the belt to have started to crack?

[FastandBulbous]

8 hours ago, mburdett555 said:

Is yours a 2013? And how many miles had you done when you got it changed for the belt to have started to crack?

Yeah, 2013 on 72k.  I've attached an image. 

[mburdett555]

13 hours ago, FastandBulbous said:

Yeah, 2013 on 72k.  I've attached an image. 

Thanks for that, and would you say that to your knowledge, the correct oil had been used during a service? This image makes me feel like my times nearly up 🤪

[TomsFocus]

Bending any cambelt back on itself at such a tight angle will cause cracks between the ribs.

[unofix]

1 hour ago, mburdett555 said:

This image makes me feel like my times nearly up 

If you have a 2013 model then your time is up regardless of the mileage. The change interval is 100,000 miles OR 10 years which ever comes first.

Personally I think both advised limits are not very well thought out. Most (but not all) cars with the ecoboost 1.0 engine in the UK will be in the scrapyard long before 200,000 miles or 20 years old. My thoughts would be that a recommended change of 90,000 miles or 9 years would make more sense.

[FastandBulbous]

1 hour ago, mburdett555 said:

Thanks for that, and would you say that to your knowledge, the correct oil had been used during a service? This image makes me feel like my times nearly up 🤪

Yeah, always used the right oil and had it serviced to schedule (I've had it 8 years, the first two years were serviced by Ford).  As I say, I had a chat with the mechanic when I picked it up, he said the condition wasn't too bad.  Most of the wear was on the top of the belt, you could see the compound had started to degrade and that all gets caught up in the oil pick up and ultimately starves the engine of oil.  

If it helps at all (I assume you're wondering whether to get this done) I mulled it over and came to the conclusion I wanted to keep the car for another few years.  This was in part due to the craziness of the second hand car market but also the car itself.  It's given me very little trouble in 8 years of ownership (in that regard it's been the best car I've owned) but it also feels solid, the clutch and gearbox feel good, ride is smooth, no banging or knocking anywhere and it still pulls well.  If it does me another two or three years without anything major going on it I won't mind about forking out for the cambelt.

[FastandBulbous]

5 minutes ago, FastandBulbous said:

If it does me another two or three years without anything major going on it I won't mind about forking out for the cambelt.

Just jinxed it haven't I 😅

[mjt]

23 minutes ago, unofix said:

I think both advised limits are not very well thought out. Most (but not all) cars with the ecoboost 1.0 engine in the UK will be in the scrapyard long before 200,000 miles or 20 years old.

I suspect Ford thought that most would be in the scrapyard by 10 years/100,000 miles.

[FastandBulbous]

6 hours ago, mjt said:

I suspect Ford thought that most would be in the scrapyard by 10 years/100,000 miles.

I think the genuinely thought it'd last the life of the engine which is why it's so difficult and time consuming to replace.

[unofix]

1 minute ago, FastandBulbous said:

genuinely thought it'd last the life of the engine

It genuinely does last the life of the engine !! Once it fails the engine is 100% dead, so you can't say it didn't last 🤣