Hi,

Been reading a few stories about the ecoboost engines, regarding the wet timing belt.

I have a 2019 plate Vignale 125.

So from what I can see I will need to get the belt changed in 5 years time.

I get it serviced every year with oil and filter change, I've owned it for 2 years.

My thinking is the cost of replacing the belt, against maybe trading it in  now while it still has 5 years till belt change

I do about 6000 miles per year, if belt change isn't too dear then prob keep it. As I guess most similar cars are wet belt these days

 

Very few similar cars use wet belts.  Only the 1.0 EcoBoost and the 1.2 PureTech (Peugeot/Citroen) in Fiesta sized cars iirc.

As you'll have seen, the belts don't necessarily last the 10 year recommended interval.  And I suspect inflation will keep pushing the price of replacement up over the next 5 years.  So it's very difficult to estimate how much it'll cost then, and whether you may feel safer replacing the belt during it's 8th year, rather than risking pushing it to 10.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if the belt change was near £2000 in 5 years time, it's currently around £1000-£1500 depending on where you go and how much additional work you have done.

If it is any use my daughters Fiesta at 9 years old had its wet belt, oil pump& belt, water pump and leaking bearing seal replaced last year for £1600. If your car is in good nick and you are happy with it it might be worth giving it another couple of years and then think about getting the belt done.

You say you do about 6000 miles a year which would indicate short journeys. Would advise oil and filter change every year.

28 minutes ago, jsk said:

If it is any use my daughters Fiesta at 9 years old had its wet belt, oil pump& belt, water pump and leaking bearing seal replaced last year for £1600. If your car is in good nick and you are happy with it it might be worth giving it another couple of years and then think about getting the belt done.

You say you do about 6000 miles a year which would indicate short journeys. Would advise oil and filter change every year.

Thanks @jsk

Yes it's in fantastic nick tbh, and I suppose if I flogged it and bought another car I would no doubt lose money anyway, it's been ultra reliable and I love driving it, it's loaded with features.

So So'm thinking of in 3 years when it will be 8, and I spend upto  £ 2k on belt replacement, given it's a great car I think it would be less cost than the drop in resale value. Thanks also, yes I always get oil and filter change every year after seeing that advice on here,👍

 

Just hope she doesn't have any other hidden age related common defects 🙂

Thanks too @TomsFocus for your helpful input 👍

 

I see no reason why the wet belt needing eventual replacement should make you get rid of it prematurely. Lots of - if not all - cars will need work doing on them at some point in their lives and you've just got to accept that's one of the many costs of ownership which vary from car to car. Our Fiesta is 10 years old now (75k miles) and hasn't missed a beat. We still love driving it, does everything we want it to and now that the belt has been done I see no reason why it won't give us another 5-10 years of hassle-free ownership which would be a perfectly decent innings for any car.

Remember that there's very little to say or discuss when you don't have a problem and so the likes of me and likely millions of others just like me represent the silent majority that you won't really hear much from. It is all too easy to not recognise what is a rather skewed picture painted by those poor soles that have had issues (and that I sympathise massively with) and the echo chambers they end up speaking in. There are at least a couple of Facebook groups that effectively discuss nothing but Ecoboost wet belts and my finger-in-the-air view is that a 1/3rd of people have had an issue and 2/3rds are there just whipping up hysteria. There are also an increasing number of people that I can only describe as vultures hovering around paying lowball prices to take cars off distressed car owners hands rather than pointing them down other avenues that would likely benefit them far more overall (and that said vultures will actually be going down themselves).

My biggest recommendation - for any car but particularly a turbocharged one - is simply to stay on top of oil changes. Everyone's view is different mine is 6000 miles / 12 months tops, and do it yourself.

Thanks @MJNewton makes sense what you say.

Car ownership is new to me having just retired from being a lifelong company car owner who never kept a car for more than 3 years, and never truthfully cared what was fitted and why.... until now that is

Thanks.

 

54 minutes ago, SteveStrat said:

Car ownership is new to me having just retired from being a lifelong company car owner who never kept a car for more than 3 years, and never truthfully cared what was fitted and why.... until now that is

Yes, back to reality once you get kicked out of the golden wheels club as we used to call it!😀.

Some good advice there so far, and there is the added factor that smallish, manual, petrol hatchbacks simply won't be available in a few more years if that is what is wanted.

Many cars with "dry" cam belts have replacement intervals of 4/5 years at dealer replacement costs of £450 and upwards, so over an extended ownership period the Ecoboost is not that bad, just a big pill to swallow in one go.

There are still quite a few unregistered 125ps Fiestas of various specs in dealer stock on AutoTrader  if you did want to pursue the "swap it now" option - they would have the revised engine with chain cam drive,  but still have a belt to drive the oil pump with a 10 year/150,000 mile recommended change interval.

They would be the facelifted Mk 8.5 versions though - the Vjgnale was dropped some time ago and Ford progressively reduced specs towards the end of production, so you would lose out on "goodies".

 

7 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Only the 1.0 EcoBoost and the 1.2 PureTech (Peugeot/Citroen) in Fiesta sized cars iirc.

The Corsa was the best seller of the "Fiesta sized" hatches last year, and as Vauxhall is now part of the Stellantis empire also has the Puretech wet belt engine, which a lot of people don't seem to know. Some friends of ours certainly didn't!😀

 

Thanks @Eric Bloodaxe I didn't realise dry belts ( Is that the chain?) Needed replacement after 5 years, that makes the wet belt problem appear a little more palatable.

Yeah that golden wheels club was great, shame I only truly appreciate it now 🙂

Thanks for your great input Eric 👍

16 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

The Corsa was the best seller of the "Fiesta sized" hatches last year, and as Vauxhall is now part of the Stellantis empire also has the Puretech wet belt engine, which a lot of people don't seem to know. Some friends of ours certainly didn't!😀

 

Ah, I knew Vauxhall was now part of the PSA group but hadn't twigged that they'd be using the PureTech engine.  That certainly makes the Corsa & 208 EV's look more appealing!

 

15 hours ago, SteveStrat said:

I didn't realise dry belts ( Is that the chain?) Needed replacement after 5 years, that makes the wet belt problem appear a little more palatable.

A dry rubber belt is very different to a metal chain.  Chains should last the lifetime of the car in theory.  (Although some are fitted with weak plastic tensioners that fail.)

VW group used to specify that their dry belts needed replacement at 4 or 5 years...however they have since revised that upwards.  A cynic could suggest it was mainly done to make their dealerships more money.  Most dry belts are recommended every 8-10 years and in my experience will generally last that long.  I've seen dry belts at 12-15 years that still look new when replaced!

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

VW group used to specify that their dry belts needed replacement at 4 or 5 years...

Yeah, we "stretched" ours (pardon the pun) on the Mii to 7 in consultation with our servicing garage. I've noticed VW group seem to specify different intervals in different markets, e.g. non-UK members on Up/Mii/Citigo forums have reported much longer intervals or even "for life" in their countries.

So the cynic might be right about the dealership money making aspect!😀

 

 

 

4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Ah, I knew Vauxhall was now part of the PSA group but hadn't twigged that they'd be using the PureTech engine.  That certainly makes the Corsa & 208 EV's look more appealing!

 

A dry rubber belt is very different to a metal chain.  Chains should last the lifetime of the car in theory.  (Although some are fitted with weak plastic tensioners that fail.)

VW group used to specify that their dry belts needed replacement at 4 or 5 years...however they have since revised that upwards.  A cynic could suggest it was mainly done to make their dealerships more money.  Most dry belts are recommended every 8-10 years and in my experience will generally last that long.  I've seen dry belts at 12-15 years that still look new when replaced!

Indeed. On that last point, the dry timing belt (top belt) off my MK2 (2005) Focus 1.8 TDCi looked almost brand new when it was replaced at 14 years and 145K miles (the Fomoco markings were still visible).

 

I definitely wouldn't trust a wet belt to do half that to be honest!

I'm struggling to find a reliable small car, which is not hybrid TBH. And has chain for timing rather than wet belt

Honda Jazz comes out top for reliability

Toyota Yaris good for reliability but all Hybrid afaik

Hyundai I10 chain drive and petrol but dunno about reliability.

 

Whatever I do, my Vignale Fiesta value has dropped to about £10,000 I bought it for £17,000 just over 3 years ago, so selling it would mean more of a loss than say the £2000 to replace the belt in 3 years time, I guess.

Problem is I want a car but only really use it for short journeys with say the odd 600 mile round trip once a year.

1 hour ago, SteveStrat said:

I'm struggling to find a reliable small car, which is not hybrid TBH. And has chain for timing rather than wet belt

Honda Jazz comes out top for reliability

Toyota Yaris good for reliability but all Hybrid afaik

Hyundai I10 chain drive and petrol but dunno about reliability.

Getting difficult. VW group 1.0 triples (see my post above) are dry belt and found in various power outputs in VW Polo/T-Cross, Seat Ibiza/Arona, Skoda Fabia and Audi A1. Reasonable replacement cost at an independent (ours was £300 a couple of years back) and a further advantage is the water pump is at the opposite end of the engine so doesn't automatically need precautionary replacement at the same time as the belt.

Jazz and Yaris both hybrid as you say, (unless you go for the 253bhp 4WD GR Yaris which is rather tasty but a bit OTT for pottering about!). Honda and Toyota hybrids are very good, though, if you can live without a manual box.

Hyundai seem to have a good reputation reliability wise and 5 year warranty of course. (I was seriously considering the i20N as a Fiesta ST alternative but gave up after trying unsuccessfully (for 2 years!) to get a test drive.)

I've seen positive reports on recent Renault Clios which I believe have swung between chain and belt (dry) over the years. They were going 100% hybrid but recently re-released  a non-hybrid 1.0 as a lower cost option. Could be worth a glance.

Thanks Eric great info, will take a look cheers,👍

Genuinely nice to see some positivity on the forum (I also totally sympathise with members who have suffered with wet belt issues), but I definitely believe that the Fiesta is a truly great driver’s car. I currently run an ST, but have previously run a 1.4 Edge, a 125 PS Zetec S, a 140 PS Zetec S Black Edition (which was genuinely like a junior ST) and a 140 PS ST-line. All have been fantastic fun, and that to me is the most important aspect of a small hatchback (I completely understand that some people prioritise other qualities). Also they’ve all been on PCP deals, so I haven’t had them long enough to suffer from reliability issues, which I totally understand isn’t everyone’s experience.

I’ve just switched to a Dacia Sandero Stepway which is a 3 cyl turbo with timing chain (engine is a Tce90). good reports of that engine and the car new was a fraction of the price of the equivalent spec Fiesta (active x ish).

4 hours ago, Smartd00d said:

I’ve just switched to a Dacia Sandero Stepway which is a 3 cyl turbo with timing chain (engine is a Tce90). good reports of that engine and the car new was a fraction of the price of the equivalent spec Fiesta (active x ish).

I've heard good reports about that model, must admit I've been looking at cars with  chain driven timing this week, but each time I see one I like I discover it has other faults. hope you enjoy the car.

4 hours ago, Smartd00d said:

Dacia Sandero Stepway which is a 3 cyl turbo with timing chain

Keeping an eye on that myself as a future possibility. From what I've seen Renault/Dacia seem to have flipped between dry belt and chain over the years.  Has the engine changed recently? According to the Dacia site it's now belt:

TCe 90

Super versatile

 

Available with a manual gearbox, this latest generation 3-cylinder 90 hp turbo engine is more environmentally friendly and offers incredible responsiveness and driveability. With its timing belt, you can save even more and reduce your daily maintenance budget. So clever!

 

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Keeping an eye on that myself as a future possibility. From what I've seen Renault/Dacia seem to have flipped between dry belt and chain over the years.  Has the engine changed recently? According to the Dacia site it's now belt:

TCe 90

Super versatile

 

Available with a manual gearbox, this latest generation 3-cylinder 90 hp turbo engine is more environmentally friendly and offers incredible responsiveness and driveability. With its timing belt, you can save even more and reduce your daily maintenance budget. So clever!

 

Oh that's a bummer, my juices were just starting to flow about the Dacia

It was starting to tick some boxes, I wonder if they've switched to belt to add 1 or 2  mph to the figures 🙂

13 hours ago, SteveStrat said:

Oh that's a bummer, my juices were just starting to flow about the Dacia

At least it's a dry one. I've not gone into it in depth, but from what I've seen its a fairly normal belt/tensioner/water pump job at 5 years/70k. There's actually some quite useful maintenance/servicing info on Dacia's website.

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

At least it's a dry one. I've not gone into it in depth, but from what I've seen its a fairly normal belt/tensioner/water pump job at 5 years/70k. There's actually some quite useful maintenance/servicing info on Dacia's website.

Yes I was looking at the website last night after I posted my earlier reply, tbh I've been looking at many car websites this week, and have to say the Dacia one is the best I've ever seen, plenty of info, only thing I wasn't able to find was belt info.

Some sites say chain some say belt, but not many saying what 2014 gives us.

I know dry belts have been out for a long time, hopefully changing them is a lot easier and thus cheaper.

Another car I'm giving some serious attention to is the Kia Creed, but need to find out a bit more about the belt situation.

One thing I've discovered since doing all this research is the general hatred for Ford these days, lack of care for the customer.

I see in the states they've had to act, I think mainly down to the fact Americans don't put up with crap, unlike us oh so British 😉

 

I can't help but think you are putting way too much significance on wet vs dry belts and letting it unnecessarily dictate your options and possibly final selection. Don't think for one moment believe that chains are immune from potential issues, not to mention all the other components of a car/engine which don't appear to be being factored in (I recognise that they might of course, but just not being discussed). 

41 minutes ago, SteveStrat said:

One thing I've discovered since doing all this research is the general hatred for Ford these days, lack of care for the customer.

Lol, yes that is quite noticeable, putting it mildly! Ironically, as I've mentioned in various threads, one of the things that's kept me with Ford for the last few years has been the very good service from my (independent, family owned) local dealer.

Unfortunately now Ford have culled the models which were most popular with their customers, I can see them switching franchise (Dacia, perhaps?😀) or going out of business altogether.

 

7 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

I can't help but think you are putting way too much significance on wet vs dry belts and letting it unnecessarily dictate your options and possibly final selection. 

Yes, some engines have had pretty serious issues with chain tensioners for example. Probably not much chance of getting a wet belt now though, apart from the Stellantis group Puretech which has already been flagged.

Unfortunately it does seem that simple, robust engineering went out of the window some time ago in the search for lower emissions and cost reductions.