Focus Temperature Gauge Issue

[artscot79]

The water pump is brand new, it was fitted in Friday.

Day 2 and the fans are still working, :D but I'm not getting any drop in temperature.

I will try a new cap on the expansion tank, could it be that simple? I can only think theres a blockage of some sort or an air bubble.

I had the coolant changed/topped up 3 this year, I'm sure my mechanic knows what he's doing.

theres only 4 possibilities the expansion cap an airlock the rad or the thermostat was put in the wrong way there are holes that have to be lined up and no offence if i had a quid for everytime someone said my mechanic knows what hes doing lol.

try the new cap if you arent getting a hot rad and hot bottom hose turn the heater inside to face and hot and see if youre getting hot, air leave it on fan speed 1 for 5 minutes youre not getting a drop in temp as the fans are trying to cool water thats not in the radiator by the sounds of it personally if the expansion cap doesnt fix it take it back to the mechanic either the pumps faulty or hes not fitted the thermostat properlyit is a two stage thermostat youll be amazed how many times ive taken them apart and that mechanic with 15 years experience hasnt lined the holes up correctly.

When the engine is cold the pressure in the cooling system is equivalent to atmospheric pressure. As the engine warms up the coolant circulates the engine via a two-stage thermostat. A two-stage thermostat allows coolant to actually circulate rather than remain still. This is to prevent hotspots forming and uneven cooling. The coolant warms up with the engine and in doing so begins to expand. The pressure therefore begins to rise. Eventually the engine gets too warm and the coolant can no longer have a cooling effect, and so the thermostat opens allowing coolant to pass through the radiator dissipating its heat into the air which passes through it. The engine now begins to cool again and the pressure falls. If the engine gets too cool the thermostat closes and the process begins again. The pressure in the cooling system is directly proportional to the temperature. The higher the temperature the higher the pressure and vice-versa. If the engine gets too hot the cooling fan cuts in to generate airflow through the radiator. The pressure cap acts as an overall safety valve in the event of the pressure getting too high. Most caps release at about 15psi. The cap has a second valve, the purpose of which is to allow air into the cooling system as the engine cools down and the coolant contracts. If this wasn't the case the cooling system would be a partial vacuum after the car had been stood overnight.

It is the temperature of the coolant that regulates the pressure. If your engine’s cooling system has a high pressure at low temperature then you quite definitely have something wrong.....

[kingfisher1967]

Went out this morning and brought a new cap, fitted it as soon as I got home because we were going out in the afternoon for a meal. I had my fingers crossed all the way but alas the needle still rose as soon as I got a hill. So on Monday morning I'll be ringing Fords and ask them to plug it into their machines and hopefully tell me whats wrong. I shant get them to fix it though, too dear.

[artscot79]

Went out this morning and brought a new cap, fitted it as soon as I got home because we were going out in the afternoon for a meal. I had my fingers crossed all the way but alas the needle still rose as soon as I got a hill. So on Monday morning I'll be ringing Fords and ask them to plug it into their machines and hopefully tell me whats wrong. I shant get them to fix it though, too dear.

ill ay its the thermostat not fitted right or the temperature sensor is faulty but ill hedge my bets on the thermostat or pump

[stef123]

you say you have had the coolant changed and what not... but has the system been flushed through? (sorry if you have mentioned this as ive not read the whole post)

If the water pump and expansion cap are new then it says to me that the hot coolant isn't flowing away from the engine, so its possubly a blockage or the thermostat thats if the temperature sensor is reading correct..

I will doubt very much if plugging it into a computer will return anything...

[kingfisher1967]

After reading the past 2 replies, I still rang Fords, but I asked them if they are able to flush my cooling system through. They recommended that I didn't have that done because ' of the age of the car/ if it causes a leak we would be liable' so they advised me to replace the rad ( yeah, not at your prices). This was after I called my mechanic, he says my hoses are fine. So I'm going to try something,tomorrow when I get home I'm going to pop the bonnet and see if my rad is cold, if it is, then is surely must be blocked? I cant believe I haven't tried this before, for my day job I sell boilers and central heating rads ( shame I cant get one to fit my car) and a cold rad often means a blocked one, DOH!

Ive had a quick look online, and they're not 'that' dear.

The fans aren't working again, but they have been, so thats probably a loose connection, the working fans also mean that the temperature sensor isn't duffy ( one less thing to change).

I really do appreciate everyone help with this. Hopefully ( as the government says ) lessons will be learnt.

[kingfisher1967]

LOL, there arent many places on a focus to grope a rad

The radiator bottom hose was cold, the top hose was hot. On the expansion tank, the hose leading from the rad was cold and the one leading from the engine was hot,and where I could feel, like the hoses, the top of the rad was cold and the bottom was hot.

So, another call out for my mechanic, another new part and a forth helping of coolant, PLEASE let this be it...

[jeebowhite]

Kingfisher, out of curiosity, how much has this pain in the a*se problem cost you so far?

[kingfisher1967]

WHEN! its fixed, I'll total the cost up. not sure how much the new rad is gonna cost, but for some reason rads for auto boxes cost more than manual

[stef123]

WHEN! its fixed, I'll total the cost up. not sure how much the new rad is gonna cost, but for some reason rads for auto boxes cost more than manual

do they have an ATF fluid cooler as part of them?

[kingfisher1967]

New rad went in today, did it work? not sure, the temperature went as high as 107C but Ive not done a proper run, Its going to take the gauge staying rock steady at motorway speeds ( or a steep hill) to convince me.

There was no life from the fans, so I'll give it another go with some WD40 at the weekend (maybe I can pick up a cheap 2nd unit from somewhere).

Total cost? £391.20, which brakes down to

Parts Thermostat, £10.98

Water Pump, £48.92

Radiator, £133.80

Parts Total £193.70

Coolant ( 3 fills) £22.50

Labour ( 3 visits) £175.00

Even after all that, I'd still have another Focus.

[stef123]

In the time i had my focus i never heard the rad fan once, although i tricked the relay to switch it on and it did work. I had about 110 degrees on the dashboard but i was told it kicks in at 118 IIRC..

[kingfisher1967]

Ive had the fans working, Ive had them come on at 104C.I suspect its an iffy connection somewhere.

I did check the hoses when I got home BTW and the all felt warm, which for me is an improvement.

FYI,up to 110C is 'normal' between 111C and 120C my temp gauge will rise to the red zone, above that all hell will break loose :D

[artscot79]

Ive had the fans working, Ive had them come on at 104C.I suspect its an iffy connection somewhere.

I did check the hoses when I got home BTW and the all felt warm, which for me is an improvement.

FYI,up to 110C is 'normal' between 111C and 120C my temp gauge will rise to the red zone, above that all hell will break loose :D

from what the ford guy said some cars have different thermostats as theres a few set at diff temps you can have it so the fan cuts in from 98 degrees all the way up to 118 degrees most garages will change the thermostat but dont specify the temp they want and just buy a general thermostat they had the issue withh the foci temp gauge sitting higher than midway in hotter countries and climates so put different thermostats in to keep the needle halfway

[kingfisher1967]

link to picy

Well, theres your problem.

This is why my cooling fans aren't kicking in, looks a tad frazzled to me.

Shame Ive got to buy a whole new fan unit

[Stewie316]

I've been watching this topic for some time and your ambition to find and fix this problem! That connection plug looks cooked! I hope that's the source of the problem and fixes it now.

I wonder if bad weather has been leaking into this.

[kingfisher1967]

TY Stewie, you could say Ive been ambitious about it, Ive often been described as a bit of a pit-bull, once I get my teeth into something, I wont let go until its done :D

I can sum it up in 3 words

BRIGHTON'S SPEED BUMPS

I think its become lose over the years and many speed bumps we have, and has shorted out.

I don't think there is enough cable to cut out the cooked plug and patch in a new one, but at least I know whats I'm looking for if I can find a replacement rather that the fan unit

The new rad is working fine but I'd like to get the fans working again then finally I can stop watching the temperature gauge. B)

[kingfisher1967]

Went out for a proper drive this morning, and although its not as panicking as before, the gauge still rises above normal, but only for a short while before going back to normal. I can hear at least one fan coming on (having a fiddle and a spray with WD40 worked then), but I'm putting this 'small issue' down to the plug being fried and the fans not being able to do a proper job.

If fixing the fans don't work, I'll but a bit of black tape over the gauge and ignore it. :D

[jeebowhite]

good old masking tape fix!

Cant you just cut out the plug and wire in a bit more cable, and then just electrical tape over the top of the cable to insulate it? might be a lot cheaper!

[kingfisher1967]

Fitted a new fan unit today, £30.00 from a salvage car parts place, a lot cheaper than eBay, and loads cheaper than a new one from Fords.

Took me about 10-15 mins to change, 4 clips, 1 multiplug and done. As the car was still a bit warm from earlier, I started it up, put the heat to hot, the selector to screen and BOTH! fans came on.

We are off out tomorrow, so that will give everything a good test.

On the way back from the parts place today it was still over heating, but again not by much ( putting the heating on to hot helped)so wont know if I need to put some black tape over the gauge until then.

[kingfisher1967]

Found something interesting last night at another forum. its a TSB ( Technical service Bulletin) from 2001: (No. 005/2001)

'Should a customer express concern over high readings of the temperature gauge under relatively low ambient driving conditions, the probable cause could be any one of several factors. This bulletin contains a diagnostic procedure which should be followed, in the sequence shown, in order to rectify the concern.'

Basically its instructions on how to fit a by-pass kit that goes between the rad top hose and heater return hose, plus they recommend a 74C thermostat is fitted.

The guy that posted it did the work himself and says it work, I'm not that brave to do the work myself, and my mechanic is away now for a month, I shall pop into Fords on the way home from work on Saturday and try and haggle a price, I think that I shouldn't have to pay for the 'modification, but I do wonder why after so many years the problem with circulation should start now ( although its been 'better' since the new rad went in'

[jeebowhite]

Any number of reasons, possibly just a bad part that worked so well has had too many teething troubles and its the final nail in the coffin... Good luck with the dealer, and hopefully you will get a good price on it...

[kingfisher1967]

Well, Fords weren't that helpful. I had to ask one guy for the prices on the parts ( about £80 for the two) and ask another for a price on the labor (£120), after explaining why I wanted a by-pass kit, the impression that I got from his replies were that it wouldn't help ' coz its recently started to do it, it would be better to try and hunt down why its happening.( but gave no hint in what it could be)

after yet more Internet hunting, I found a thread on how to drain and refill the cooling system, apparently its not ( as I thought) fill via the expansion tank, but by 'disconnecting the heater supply hose from the engine'and filling it that way with the help of a funnel, once the coolant starts to 'trickle from the engine'( I'm guessing thats into the expansion tank and not onto the road), reconnect the supply hose, and then top up from the tank.

I reckon I might be able to tackle this myself, but I have one question, which is the heater supply hose?

[kingfisher1967]

I decided against pulling of any hoses, even though I'm pretty sure I know which one it is now.

instead I took the cap off the expansion tank (no hiss), started the car up and revved it lightly until it warmed up, that took about 15 mins to get to about 90C, meanwhile I wiggled, squeezed and shock as many hoses as I could reach as I was convinced this would shift any air that I have in the system. Well I'm not sure if its worked, but I have come across an 'Ehow, how to troubleshoot the cooling system in a ford focus' and one of the things to look for is look and the coolant levels, they should drop as your car warms up, if they remain unchanged, its most likely that the thermostat is stuck openwell, the levels didn't change, so I think my next move should be to change the thermostat, again, the old one is only a few months old, but maybe it was faulty?

I wont get my mechanic to do it, Ive found fairly detailed instructions on how to drain, locate and refill, which I might even do the 'proper way'

Ive tracked down the part number I need ( 1303374, £11.35 plus VAT) and I'll try and reuse the old coolant

[kingfisher1967]

I don't know what to do now.

draining down the coolant was very easy, and while that was happening, I made a start on removing the pipe that leads to the air filter, the clips on it are like nothing Ive seen before, I was expecting a jubilee clip. after that I was meant to remove the 'coil pack housing' when I looked it up earlier in the week, it looked fairly easy, I manged to unplug everything, but I was afraid that I would make a hash of the screws and the bolts on the thermostat itself, so I admitted defeat.

So all I had to do was to plug everything back, reconnect the air filter tube ( after much swearing I replaced the ford clips with jubilee type) I re-filled the coolant, once it was up to MAX in the tank,( still had some left over) I started the car up and let it warm up. I manged to get it up about 93, but couldn't get it any higher, to I hopped in and drove it about the block, its hilly round our way so I figured it would only take a couple to get the fans going, this they did at 104c so I started back home ( down a hill) where, as I expected' the temperature to drop enough for the fans to go off ( never heard that before).A couple of hours later when I checked the coolant level, it had gone down, so I topped it up with what I had.

On Sunday we went out for a good long drive, and as per usual, any incline resulted in the needle rising a little and any decline resulted in the needle falling back to normal. There was one very long hill that made the needle get very close to the red zone, but it soon dropped back down as quick.

Yesterday, we went out again, but a shorter journey,(still had hills and motorway) its one Ive done before so I was surprised when I noticed the needle didn't move at all( but the fans where doing the usual over time), even the hill leading to my home the needle didn't rise. Had draining and filling yesterday made something better?

When I drove home from work I purposely drove up a couple of hills that Ive done in the past, so I could kinda guess what the needle would do from previous trips.There were certain point in my journey where I thought ' thats cooler than normal' It did rise, but only when I was at the top of a hill and only a tad (111C) even the hill leading to home only got as high as 109.

My conclusion is it seems better, but not perfect.

Is the thermostat not opening properly? as far as I can find out if it was stuck shut, I'd be over heating while waiting at traffic lights, if it was stuck open ( and I'd get no heat inside the car), then the car would never warm up

My dilemma is: I was about to wave the white flag and give it Fords to look at, but if it is the stat, I can ask my mobile mechanic to replace it. I'd rather pay him to replace it than Fords

I know its possible to test the stat, but for that the bugger has to come out.

The only other things I haven't replaced are the top and bottom hose to the rad ( hindsight says I should had check them on Saturday while I was draining down, but hey ho)and the temperature senor that sits between the spark plugs ( apparently I don't have to drain down for that)

Not sure what to do now, We go away in about 3 weeks, I aim to get it fixed before then.

[jeebowhite]

You could spend far too much money diagnosing possibilities I say as hard as it is, bite the dealer bullet! you can try swinging it with them that you dont pay for parts that dont fix the problem as I have managed in the past!