Mk6 Poor Idle & Stall - the saga continues

[hazbaz1984]

So, have taped the split in the breather hose up for now. Had to remove the inlet air hose (I don’t understand how they got that clic-r clip on the throttle body, as I can’t get it back on), alternator and MAF plugs to get access to the hose. 

If anything, the stalling and idle issue was even worse than it was.

I removed and cleaned the maf sensor with contact cleaner. It was very oily. Not sure where all this oil is coming from that’s getting into the air ducting and was on the maf. 

Def. idling better. But I’ll try starting it when cold in the AM and see how it does. 

Under braking it has also started stalling. I’ve read about a brake servo hose somewhere that can also split and let air in, stalling the engine. Does anyone know where this hose is so I can check it….?

[TomsFocus]

Have you done a throttle body relearn since taping up the hose?  Also, are you sure it's taped perfectly?  It only takes a tiny vacuum leak to cause big problems on an NA petrol engine.  

It does sound like you've got a vac leak somewhere - check all the pipes and joints around the throttle body etc.  The brake servo is the big round drum behind the brake fluid reservoir.  You'll see a plastic hose entering that drum.  Follow it back round the airbox and into the inlet manifold.

PS - You really need Clic-R pliers to reseat genuine Clic-R clips, they're a right pain to refit with normal pliers because of the lump in the centre.

[hazbaz1984]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Have you done a throttle body relearn since taping up the hose?  Also, are you sure it's taped perfectly?  It only takes a tiny vacuum leak to cause big problems on an NA petrol engine.  

It does sound like you've got a vac leak somewhere - check all the pipes and joints around the throttle body etc.  The brake servo is the big round drum behind the brake fluid reservoir.  You'll see a plastic hose entering that drum.  Follow it back round the airbox and into the inlet manifold.

PS - You really need Clic-R pliers to reseat genuine Clic-R clips, they're a right pain to refit with normal pliers because of the lump in the centre.

Yeah. Unplugged battery to do the work. Switched it on for 30 secs without starting, then took it for a drive. I assume that’s enough for the TB to relearn?

I wrapped that split hose up good with insulation tape. And taped up the ends of the tape either side. That vac leak is sealed up good.

Ill check the brake servo vac hose when I get home later. Thanks for that. 

I have clic-r pliers. But for the bottom one, the engine mount and alternator get in the way, and you can’t get them on straight. Spent 90 mins trying and gave up on the *****. Need the flexihead pliers really. Just replacing with big jubilee clips to make life easier. 

[TomsFocus]

3 minutes ago, hazbaz1984 said:

Yeah. Unplugged battery to do the work. Switched it on for 30 secs without starting, then took it for a drive. I assume that’s enough for the TB to relearn?

I wrapped that split hose up good with insulation tape. And taped up the ends of the tape either side. That vac leak is sealed up good.

Ill check the brake servo vac hose when I get home later. Thanks for that. 

I have clic-r pliers. But for the bottom one, the engine mount and alternator get in the way, and you can’t get them on straight. Spent 90 mins trying and gave up on the *****. Need the flexihead pliers really. Just replacing with big jubilee clips to make life easier. 

Hmm, that's not quite the relearn procedure.  Should be ignition on for 60 seconds (without touching pedals etc), ignition off, then start.

Ah I see what you mean about the pliers now, mine are flex head ones lol.

If you're doubting any of the joins, you can spray a bit of something flammable (easy-start, brake cleaner, deodorant, whatever lol) lightly in that area with the engine running.  If the idle speed increases, that suggests it's sucking some of the extra 'fuel' in through a vac leak.

[hazbaz1984]

4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Hmm, that's not quite the relearn procedure.  Should be ignition on for 60 seconds (without touching pedals etc), ignition off, then start.

Ah I see what you mean about the pliers now, mine are flex head ones lol.

If you're doubting any of the joins, you can spray a bit of something flammable (easy-start, brake cleaner, deodorant, whatever lol) lightly in that area with the engine running.  If the idle speed increases, that suggests it's sucking some of the extra 'fuel' in through a vac leak.

So, fitted the new, giant 30-700mm hose clamps(!) I got from Halfords. Cut right down to size of course, on the intake piping that goes to the throttle body. A lot simpler than those stoopid clic clamps.

Reset the ECU. Did the 60 second relearn, and then started it….. 

Started first time from cold, which is a first, and idled at about 1100rpms. Stable idle. Hard braking down the road didn’t kill the engine. Result. 

Taken to the garage for its MOT. So we’ll see how it does. But very promising signs.

Looks like changing the coolant sensor, ‘fixing’ the vac leak, cleaning the filthy MAF and securing all the piping has done the engine some good. Time will tell I suppose.

If she does well on the MOT, I’ll get her some fresh oil, a new vac hose and give the throttle body a good clean too.

Thanks for the advice. 

[hazbaz1984]

New ball joint, and it passed its MOT with flying colours. Mech didn’t mention anything about struggling to start it or getting it to stay on. So I think it’s fixed. 

Guess I have to follow through on the fresh oil, new hose and throttle body clean now!

Thanks for the help again. Seems to have done the trick. 

[hazbaz1984]

Replaced the split breather hose and PCV valve. Cleaned the throttle body. And cleaned out all the oil residue inside the intake as far as I could reach inside.

Car seems a lot happier and healthier after all this work. 

[PureStrength]

On 6/5/2022 at 6:51 AM, hazbaz1984 said:

Replaced the split breather hose and PCV valve. Cleaned the throttle body. And cleaned out all the oil residue inside the intake as far as I could reach inside.

Car seems a lot happier and healthier after all this work. 

Hi Hazbaz, do you have the part numbers by any chance? I have the exact same problem and I’m struggling to find the breather pipe and valve. I ordered 1761516 but it’s too small. 
 

help much appreciated thanks 🙏🏻 

[hazbaz1984]

49 minutes ago, PureStrength said:

Hi Hazbaz, do you have the part numbers by any chance? I have the exact same problem and I’m struggling to find the breather pipe and valve. I ordered 1761516 but it’s too small. 
 

help much appreciated thanks 🙏🏻 

I bought patent parts off eBay. 
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183712951568?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=tF-TxQTlTu6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=HQg8XbYRQym&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273580158687?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Ewc_ewyzRjS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=HQg8XbYRQym&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Both are the correct part. The hose has thinner walls that the original, so I taped it up with electrical tape, particularly on the corners.

The valve is plastic rather than metal as the original is, but it all fits and works as it should.

[PureStrength]

Cheers for that, see that’s the pipe I have but it’s too small. Maybe it was labelled incorrectly.

also this is the one that runs to the rear left of the TB to the back centre of the manifold?

Blue and red markers. Cheers btw 

[PureStrength]

1 hour ago, hazbaz1984 said:

I bought patent parts off eBay. 
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183712951568?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=tF-TxQTlTu6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=HQg8XbYRQym&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273580158687?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Ewc_ewyzRjS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=HQg8XbYRQym&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Both are the correct part. The hose has thinner walls that the original, so I taped it up with electrical tape, particularly on the corners.

The valve is plastic rather than metal as the original is, but it all fits and works as it should.

£16, ordered. See what the weekend holds! 👍

[hazbaz1984]

3 hours ago, PureStrength said:

Cheers for that, see that’s the pipe I have but it’s too small. Maybe it was labelled incorrectly.

also this is the one that runs to the rear left of the TB to the back centre of the manifold?

Blue and red markers. Cheers btw 

Yes. You may be able to do it without removing the throttle body, but access is tight. You’ll have to remove intake air piping and air box at a minimum. You’ll need flex head clic clamp pliers. Or have some XL jubilee clips to replace them if you don’t and pop them off using pliers/screwdriver, as they are very difficult (nigh impossible) to get back on without the pliers. 

The valve fits in the red square. Get some vice grips or pump pliers and give the hose/valve a good tug, and they should come right out. Fitting is easy. Just wear some decent gloves or you’ll get scraped knuckles. Fit the valve to the pipe before pushing it into the head. It’ll make it a lot easier than trying to jam the new tight hose onto the valve in the awkward space behind the intake.

If you remove the throttle body, you may as well give it a good clean with some cleaner and then use some red gasket maker to reseal it after you’ve done the pipe/valve (or buy a new gasket from ford). 

Be sure to do the throttle body reset (key on, don’t start, leave for 60 seconds without touching anything) after you put it back together.

Disconnect the battery as you’ll be working close to the + terminal of the alternator…. I forgot until I got a shower of sparks!

[hazbaz1984]

2 hours ago, PureStrength said:

£16, ordered. See what the weekend holds! 👍

Champion. I’ll be fitting my type r spoiler to my type s, and changing the condenser and doing a full AC service on the civic this weekend!

So I’ll be right there with you!

[PureStrength]

So the pipes to small and the one on the car doesn’t have a valve?? The valve also doesn’t fit ?? I can’t get a photo but the hose fitting placement is basically a piece of metal 

[PureStrength]

So apparently it’s this pipe:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184522563631?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=tF-TxQTlTu6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=KUN06GilQNW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

the valve it attaches to is metal and looks like the picture attached so the plastic breather doesn’t fit. I have self ameg taped the hose and re fitted for the time being. So far 3 pipes I have tried are all wrong so this one will be next! 

luckily I have managed to salvage one for the breather filter!

any advice on the breather valve? This pipe could be for the EGR?? I’m not much of a car buff lol 

[TomsFocus]

@PureStrength I've got a bit lost with all of your threads now lol.  Your engine doesn't have an EGR valve though.

[PureStrength]

I’m so confused because the breather pipe ordered doesn’t fit, the one above does. Maybe it’s got a different engine in it?? I dunno but the oil valve doesn’t fit the green part listed above either.

propper confused @tomfocus lol I ain’t a car buff, it’s actually first car I have had to do maintenance on TBH

thanks 

[hazbaz1984]

Is yours a 1.4 petrol duratec?

If that photo of the pipe is the one you’ve pulled off, the one I suggested you order should fit. 

The metal valve that you’ve pulled out of the cylinder head should look the same in shape as the one I suggested. 

The fit is tight, but the hose should fit on the small end of the valve. 

The ring (6K777) should have stayed in the head. If it’s attached to the old valve, get it off and back in the hole it came from! Then the valve should fit. 

[PureStrength]

43 minutes ago, hazbaz1984 said:

Is yours a 1.4 petrol duratec?

If that photo of the pipe is the one you’ve pulled off, the one I suggested you order should fit. 

The metal valve that you’ve pulled out of the cylinder head should look the same in shape as the one I suggested. 

The fit is tight, but the hose should fit on the small end of the valve. 

The ring (6K777) should have stayed in the head. If it’s attached to the old valve, get it off and back in the hole it came from! Then the valve should fit. 

Hi, yes the one pictured is the one I pulled off. The one I ordered 1761516 was not even close to fitting. 
The metal Valve looks to be solid also and none removable?

for the reset do you fully turn the car over and not touch the pedals for a minute then just turn off? Or is it power on, engine on, idle for a minute then turn off? 
 

thanks In advance 

[PureStrength]

46 minutes ago, hazbaz1984 said:

Is yours a 1.4 petrol duratec?

If that photo of the pipe is the one you’ve pulled off, the one I suggested you order should fit. 

The metal valve that you’ve pulled out of the cylinder head should look the same in shape as the one I suggested. 

The fit is tight, but the hose should fit on the small end of the valve. 

The ring (6K777) should have stayed in the head. If it’s attached to the old valve, get it off and back in the hole it came from! Then the valve should fit. 

Oh sorry if it’s as the log book states then it’s a 1.25. 😊

[hazbaz1984]

1 hour ago, PureStrength said:

Oh sorry if it’s as the log book states then it’s a 1.25. 😊

Oh….. mine is a 1.4. So they may very well be different!

Factory reset = switch the battery on with the key (position 2) but don’t turn the car over/start the engine. Just enough to show the warning lamps on the dash. Leave it on for 60 seconds. Don’t touch anything. 
 

Then start the car. 

[TomsFocus]

11 hours ago, PureStrength said:

I’m so confused because the breather pipe ordered doesn’t fit, the one above does. Maybe it’s got a different engine in it?? I dunno but the oil valve doesn’t fit the green part listed above either.

propper confused @tomfocus lol I ain’t a car buff, it’s actually first car I have had to do maintenance on TBH

thanks 

The 1.25, 1.4 & 1.6 in the Mk6 are effectively all the same engine externally.  But minor changes were made through the years as they had a long production run.  That's why some parts aren't easy to get right first time.

As has been said above, the metal oil separator needs to be a tight fit - if it looks the same then it probably is the right one.  If it's aftermarket, it may not be made to the same tight tolerance.  I do have a couple of tips for that, but done at your own risk...if it doesn't fit the engine, put it in the fridge/freezer for a few minutes.  That'll shrink the metal slightly.  Then immediately take it out and attempt to fit it before the heat makes it expand again.  If it doesn't fit the rubber pipe, heat the pipe in some hot water for a few minutes, and you can even add a (very light!) smear of engine oil for lubrication.

[PureStrength]

Morning all thanks for the advice.

I can get the pipe to fit but the plastic  valve doesn’t fit into the metal part listed green above. Do they all need the breather valve because there isn’t one on this. Just the metal part which looks none removable. I have tried to get a picture but it’s proving difficult without removing the manifold.

cheers folks 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, PureStrength said:

Morning all thanks for the advice.

I can get the pipe to fit but the plastic  valve doesn’t fit into the metal part listed green above. Do they all need the breather valve because there isn’t one on this. Just the metal part which looks none removable. I have tried to get a picture but it’s proving difficult without removing the manifold.

cheers folks 

There are two types of valve, one plastic, one metal, if that's the problem?

[PureStrength]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

There are two types of valve, one plastic, one metal, if that's the problem?

@TomsFocus cheers for that, would you know if either be used? It looked like the metal fitment was none removable but I will check again when I get the time.

Thank You