Autowipers at night - ARGH

[sarge-focus]

Hello Gurus 

 

I'm hoping this is a case of me going nuts and not an issue with the autowiper system!

I've got a 2010 Focus Titanium 2L Diesel with auto lights and wipers and I'm starting the think the senser is a little bit glitchy or it's me basing what I want to see on my 2018 Transit Custom with autolights and wipres etc (work van). Recently with the grey and gloomy the lights seem to have settled down but the wipers seem to do their own ting when you don't expect it and the issue is exagerated at night, for example when in spray or middle of heavey rain I would expect the wipers to perform at a 'normal' speed for they seem to be slow and dare I say it stuck on Intermittant regardless what I do with the sensitivity. My question is does the sensor need more than a street light or headllight glare to 'see' the water or is this the way the system works.

In comparison my van system seems to do a much better job but it is 8years newer so maybe a more refined system.

 

 

scratching my head

[alexp999]

The auto wiper uses an infrared sensor with its own light source. It shouldn’t make a difference if it’s day or night.

[agraham]

9 hours ago, sarge-focus said:

My question is does the sensor need more than a street light or headllight glare to 'see' the water or is this the way the system works.

Normally these systems work by shining a small infrared beam from a LED onto the windscreen from the inside and look for any back-scattering. A clear windscreen will have no back-scattering, a dirty or wet windscreen will back-scatter some light which a sensor receives and decides whether there is enough, given the current sensitivity setting to give the screen a wipe.

[Botus]

a 2010 should have the later (interchangeable) sensor - but to me its not much use either - it takes a while to find a calibration setting that works for you and a while to come to terms with its sloppy / apathetic capability.  But as above there is no change at night - maybe you have the heated screen?

In my experience there are two types of human - some came with high def vision and see stuff many others don't notice.  A bit like those that don't see the distinct change between 1080i and 1080P TV pictures (let alone another set that can't see SD TV signals are hideous, just a blurry mess not worth viewing). 

The heated screen elements in a Ford front windscreen are lethal, horribly visible in sunlight, and become incredibly dangerous at night.  They create a scattered star effect that is at least as obvious to those that got HD vision, as what you are trying to see outside... add in a few rain drops an inadequate sensor hasn't wiped, and it does get hard to see. 

Then of course modern cars with their almost horizontal  windscreen (to get A pillars that cope in crashes) means when trying to look through the windscreen, 50% of what is actually visible is unwanted reflections off the dashboard, cluster lights, external mirror housings, street lamps and other external noise reflecting off interior surfaces

All of which means compared to a clear upright Van screen, you probably do have an issue with at least 80% of what you want to see being invisible...

The only minute mitigation of a heated, auto wiper, Mk2 set up that I believe many don't seem to understand - unlike most cars that have the wiper sensor calibration hidden in dealer only software tweaks - the mk2 focus allow the exact same wiper stalk as non auto wiper cars (with its rotary intermittent wipe delay knob) to be used as a manually selectable wiper sensor calibration tool. 

But the way it operates whilst logically correct, at a casual glance is the opposite to what you might believe

So a conventional car's long intermittent wipe delay position = low sensitivity (lots of rain before it wipes)
Short delay = high sensitivity (little rain before it wipes)

(its possible I wrote the rule wrong) - its her car and its opposite to how her head works - for 18 months she demanded I remove auto wipers - till I got her to read the manual and learn how to set it up - after that learning curve for the last 5 years she has never once since questioned their operation

 

the issues you are mentioning is a bit like learning to drive a car - if you spent the first 5 years as a motorised road user on a motorbike with a perfect field of view - the first time you try to drive a car on a busy public road you might as well put on a blind fold.  6" of screen pillar, then it rains and that 6" becomes 10" as the wiper doesn't bother to go the edge, in comes euro NCAP and the pillars slant back at 60" and it the 10" becomes 2 foot... but its irrelevant as most of the view is just interior reflections, then you have a whacking great interior mirror that wipes out another 60% of what you're meant to see - is it any wonder as a biker you see no car driver has EVER looked before they pull out

 

 

[TomsFocus]

Never had a problem with the Mk2.5 rain sensor myself.

Next time you're out when it's dark, spray the sensor with some cleaning fluid (ideally window cleaner...) and it should react immediately.  Nearly lost an arm wiping the screen while mine was idling yesterday.  

[sarge-focus]

I have the heated windscreen, but so does the van, I could try the window cleaner method and see if that helps in anyway and report back - Botus I will be honest I understood about 40% of that ha

[sarge-focus]

OK here's another update.... Think I'm looking at a faulty sensor which is a pain in the a$$. I'll explain what I've been doing in the hope that you can agree or point me down another track.

Now it's proving difficult to diagnose due to lighting and/or moisture.... 

1. I've cleaned the glass with cleaner and water and microfiber cloth incase there was any small amounts of debris and its shiny and clean. 

2. Unplugged the sensor plugs and turned on the 'autolamps' and 'autowipers' and they still operate with dry screen and large work lights shining against the sensor.

3. Unplugged both F100 (rain sensor) and F103 (light sensor) and those respective systems stop working. but they cut the electrical feed to the sensor. 

I'm thinking it's the sensor but I can't see how to remove it from the screen so I can fit another. HELP

[Botus]

you do have the lights set to Auto and not just on ?

[sarge-focus]

They are set to auto currently 

[TomsFocus]

Do you have the square sensor or the round one?  The square one just had metal clips as far as I remember.  Mine was replaced in 2015 after Autoglass broke it.

[sarge-focus]

47 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Do you have the square sensor or the round one?  The square one just had metal clips as far as I remember.  Mine was replaced in 2015 after Autoglass broke it.

Yeah its the square sensor with the metal clips on the side but looks like it may be glued by Ford I couldn't remove it as I dont have another but unplugging it had no bearing on operation. Windscreen is original

[TomsFocus]

It's not glued on by Ford.  There is some clear liquid used to ensure the gel pad sits perfectly against the screen but it's not an adhesive.  Just unclip it and it should come away.  You can then check the gel pad is still clear.  If it's gone hazy then the sensor doesn't get the correct readings.

[sarge-focus]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

It's not glued on by Ford.  There is some clear liquid used to ensure the gel pad sits perfectly against the screen but it's not an adhesive.  Just unclip it and it should come away.  You can then check the gel pad is still clear.  If it's gone hazy then the sensor doesn't get the correct readings.

I will take some pictures tomorrow with it installed on the screen it does look hazy but that may be my perception.

[sarge-focus]

Attached is a current image, turned flash off to show the colour differemce between the window and sensor.

[sarge-focus]

Taken this morning 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, sarge-focus said:

Taken this morning 

That looks ok to me.  Can still see the 'blobs' in the middle clearly.  So it does look like it'll be a faulty sensor.  They can be bought cheaply used on eBay.  Some have clips included, others don't.

[DaveT70]

2 hours ago, sarge-focus said:

Taken this morning 

That's fine.

Turn the wipers off and back on to auto/intermittent to reset/recalibrate system

If you're getting too many fast wipes then the Wiper Blades may be leaving a bit of water behind and need changing. The passenger blade wipes the sensor

The MK2 system is old level compared to the 2018 Transit, the Transit is fully automatic and wipes based on what it sees at the time.

The system on a MK2 Focus has to compute the amount of water it sees then sets the different intermittent setting or full on or fast on

 

[sarge-focus]

1 hour ago, DaveT70 said:

That's fine.

Turn the wipers off and back on to auto/intermittent to reset/recalibrate system

If you're getting too many fast wipes then the wiper blades may be leaving a bit of water behind and need changing. The passenger blade wipes the sensor

The MK2 system is old level compared to the 2018 Transit, the Transit is fully automatic and wipes based on what it sees at the time.

The system on a MK2 Focus has to compute the amount of water it sees then sets the different intermittent setting or full on or fast on

 

ANy thoughts on the lights or could the wipers be causing the lights to auto ON if they're leaving some water - they do not a change they are juddering.... I will put it down to wipers for now get replacements and see what happens :) 

[unofix]

The operation of dipped beam headlights and wipers operating have been interlocked on European/UK vehicles for many years now (might be around 2008). The law states that in poor visibility that requires the use of wipers that you must also use dipped beam headlights, even in daylight. Therefore vehicles equipped with automatic headlights will automatically turn on the dipped beam as soon as the wipers are active.

[Botus]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

The operation of dipped beam headlights and wipers operating have been interlocked on European/UK vehicles for many years now (might be around 2008). The law states that in poor visibility that requires the use of wipers that you must also use dipped beam headlights, even in daylight. Therefore vehicles equipped with automatic headlights will automatically turn on the dipped beam as soon as the wipers are active.

whilst great advice on the correct way to drive and indeed was once UK law - if you check today's crappy highway code it makes NO inference to needing dipped beam just coz its raining

indeed her Mk2.5 with auto lights and wipers it will NOT turn on the lights in the day just cos the auto wipers are on, even though I wish it would

and my sisters 2014 Mk3 did not switch on the lights in the day when raining- indeed I found a convoluted menu by mistake (after the BS clutch slip software update - trying understand the madness of hill hold they enabled during that reflash) in the cluster there is a setting - lights on with wipers YES / NO  - I moved to to YES and it now works as needed

[DaveT70]

1 hour ago, Botus said:

indeed her Mk2.5 with auto lights and wipers it will NOT turn on the lights in the day just cos the auto wipers are on, even though I wish it would

It should, my Mk2 and 2.5 used to as did my MK6.5 Fiesta (same system)

Ensure wipers are on auto, headlamps are on auto, after x5 consecutive, constant full on wipes, the lights should come on

[sarge-focus]

Pulled the trigger on the replacement sensor, I have been driving around in bright weather for a few hours and lights left on 'auto' and they've been on all the while.... so hopefully will be repaired end ofthe the week.

Assuming is will come out once i apply some plastic pry tool and then what do i need to reattach if the gel is missing - and tranfer the clips across

[DaveT70]

Just now, sarge-focus said:

Assuming is will come out once i apply some plastic pry tool and then what do i need to reattach if the gel is missing - and tranfer the clips across

You may only need a new gel

 

[DaveT70]

Just now, DaveT70 said:

You may only need a new gel

 

Or, hopefully, you haven't got a problem with the GEM/BCM

[sarge-focus]

3 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

Or, hopefully, you haven't got a problem with the GEM/BCM

FORScan is next but the system worked OK few week ago and sometimes kicks in first thing in the morning then the sensor stops so i'm hoping for the best