7 minutes ago, unofix said:

I have very little information on the 2003 Fiesta. I don't think that it uses the ABS wheel sensors for the speedo, perhaps @TomsFocus may know ?

I'd also look at getting those wires fixed. You will need to buy a 'pigtail' plug, available from a Ford dealer. Do you have the Haynes workshop manual for you car ? It would show those wires.

I believe it hasn't got abs wheel sensors.

Unfortunately no manual but il look for the plug 😊

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I repeat anything from above.

Some early Mk6 Fiestas didn't have ABS.  Though it would be worth confirming.

That means it only uses the speed sensor on the gearbox.  That should be wired directly the the PCM I think.

The corroded wires look like the power steering pressure sensor.

24 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I repeat anything from above.

Some early Mk6 Fiestas didn't have ABS.  Though it would be worth confirming.

That means it only uses the speed sensor on the gearbox.  That should be wired directly the the PCM I think.

The corroded wires look like the power steering pressure sensor.

Is there anyway your able to confirm with the ABS?

We have replaced the speed sensor but no joy.

The speedometer tries when you hit about 70mph along with the radio volume fluctuating 

11 hours ago, bobyn said:

Is there anyway your able to confirm with the ABS?

We have replaced the speed sensor but no joy.

The speedometer tries when you hit about 70mph along with the radio volume fluctuating 

I can't confirm online unfortunately.  But if you look all around a wheel arch, you should be able tell if there is just the brake pipe going to the hub area, or if there is also an electrical cable going to the hub area as well.

You can also follow a hard brake pipe from the master cylinder.  If it's an ABS model, the pipe will go to an aluminium block, about the size of a Rubix cube, with several pipes in & out and a large electrical plug.  Non-ABS pipes just go straight to each wheel.

The radio may be volume controlled and just an effect rather than a cause.  Some Fords of that era would automatically increase radio volume at high speed.  (Saved them fitting more sound deadening!)

The fact that it works at 70 is strange.  Assuming that it does not have ABS, and is just using the gearbox sensor, I'm wondering if the sensor wheel inside the gearbox is damaged somehow.  There are two different types of sensor.  One is a toothed wheel type.  The other is a solid magnet type.  Ideally we need to be able to measure the sensor directly from it's plug somehow, to rule out the PCM & wiring.  Not easy as the wheels have to be moving.

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I can't confirm online unfortunately.  But if you look all around a wheel arch, you should be able tell if there is just the brake pipe going to the hub area, or if there is also an electrical cable going to the hub area as well.

You can also follow a hard brake pipe from the master cylinder.  If it's an ABS model, the pipe will go to an aluminium block, about the size of a Rubix cube, with several pipes in & out and a large electrical plug.  Non-ABS pipes just go straight to each wheel.

The radio may be volume controlled and just an effect rather than a cause.  Some Fords of that era would automatically increase radio volume at high speed.  (Saved them fitting more sound deadening!)

The fact that it works at 70 is strange.  Assuming that it does not have ABS, and is just using the gearbox sensor, I'm wondering if the sensor wheel inside the gearbox is damaged somehow.  There are two different types of sensor.  One is a toothed wheel type.  The other is a solid magnet type.  Ideally we need to be able to measure the sensor directly from it's plug somehow, to rule out the PCM & wiring.  Not easy as the wheels have to be moving.

Il have a look in a abit but pretty sure it doesn't have the wheel sensors. This is the part we have already changed on it.

9 minutes ago, bobyn said:

Il have a look in a abit but pretty sure it doesn't have the wheel sensors. This is the part we have already changed on it.

Ok, that's the magnet type sensor.  It works in the same way an ABS sensor does.  It doesn't physically touch another part, but a voltage is induced by metal teeth on a wheel passing it.  The wheel looks pretty substantial, and I can't remember hearing of any that have broken away from the shaft, but it's certainly not impossible.  The drag inside the gearbox could move it at high speed, in the same way that a wheel turns if you run the engine in neutral when it's jacked up.

I'm not sure of the best way to test that sensor directly, but that's really what I'd want to do next.  If that sensor isn't picking up any speed, it obviously can't be relayed to the PCM or the dash speedo.  Hopefully someone with more electronic knowledge will be able to advise on testing.

Still don't know (or at least you've not mentioned it)that the dials can  do a full sweep using the self test or if you disconnect then reconnect the battery.

50 minutes ago, nicam49 said:

Still don't know (or at least you've not mentioned it)that the dials can  do a full sweep using the self test or if you disconnect then reconnect the battery.

Could also check the speed via live data through OBD if they have access to that on the phone now.

If the correct speed shows on live data, we know the sensor and the sensor>PCM wiring is ok.

11 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Could also check the speed via live data through OBD if they have access to that on the phone now.

If the correct speed shows on live data, we know the sensor and the sensor>PCM wiring is ok.

Would the car need to be driven whilst doing this?

12 hours ago, nicam49 said:

Still don't know (or at least you've not mentioned it)that the dials can  do a full sweep using the self test or if you disconnect then reconnect the battery.

It doesn't do/hasn't done a full sweep when iv been disconnecting the battery to check wiring etc.

Il see if its possible to do a seft test on this model.

8 hours ago, bobyn said:

Would the car need to be driven whilst doing this?

Yes.  If you've got a Bluetooth dongle for your phone now, that shouldn't be a problem.  (Just don't hold the phone while driving)

Many free apps can show vehicle speed as well as fault codes.  Just set it on that and drive the car a short distance.  If the speed works fine on the phone, then we know it's a problem with the cluster or wiring.  If the speed doesn't work on the phone, we know the problem is with the sensor or wiring.

 

8 hours ago, bobyn said:

It doesn't do/hasn't done a full sweep when iv been disconnecting the battery to check wiring etc.

Il see if its possible to do a seft test on this model.

To enter test mode, press and hold the reset button while switching ignition on.  (Engine does not need to be on for this).  When test mode has been entered, you can then release the button, and press it once at a time to cycle through each different function.  Eventually it will reach gauge sweep.  Reset button is either on the speedo clocks or on the indicator stalk, depending on model & trim level.

45 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes.  If you've got a Bluetooth dongle for your phone now, that shouldn't be a problem.  (Just don't hold the phone while driving)

Many free apps can show vehicle speed as well as fault codes.  Just set it on that and drive the car a short distance.  If the speed works fine on the phone, then we know it's a problem with the cluster or wiring.  If the speed doesn't work on the phone, we know the problem is with the sensor or wiring.

 

To enter test mode, press and hold the reset button while switching ignition on.  (Engine does not need to be on for this).  When test mode has been entered, you can then release the button, and press it once at a time to cycle through each different function.  Eventually it will reach gauge sweep.  Reset button is either on the speedo clocks or on the indicator stalk, depending on model & trim level.

Doesn't do the full sweep on test mode 

Il test once the partner is awake as its their car and I don't drive haha

 I have replaced the adapter and soldered the two loose wires back in place.

Took screen shots of these reading whilst the car is Idle.

5 minutes ago, bobyn said:

 I have replaced the adapter and soldered the two loose wires back in place.

Took screen shots of these reading whilst the car is Idle.

VSS is reading 0kph there which is what we'd expect when stationary.  Really need to see if that moves when it's driven.

On 6/24/2024 at 7:54 PM, TomsFocus said:

Some early Mk6 Fiestas didn't have ABS.  Though it would be worth confirming.

From the pic of the instrument cluster it would appear that this is actually a Mk5 (4th gen with facelift).

6 hours ago, bobyn said:

Doesn't do the full sweep on test mode 

If the instrument cluster can't move one or more gauge needles all the way up and then all the way back down again smoothly during a gauge sweep test then that indicates a problem with the instrument cluster. The gauge stepper motors are probably faulty and need replacing. Or I suppose a power supply issue could be another possibility.

Could you provide a pic of the other side of the instrument cluster circuit board so we can see the type of stepper motors used. (I provide an instrument cluster repair service through ebay, but I haven't worked on one of these particular models before, and I can't find any helpful pics through google, so I don't know what type it'll have).

I looked at the instrument cluster's connector pins in the pic you provided so see if there was any sign of cracked solder joints that certain other models are plagued with. As best as I can tell they look fine, but I can't be certain, maybe you could provide some more pics of those pins (the two parallel rows of 16)? The board also looks grime and corrosion free.

31 minutes ago, rd457 said:

From the pic of the instrument cluster it would appear that this is actually a Mk5 (4th gen with facelift).

Don't get me started on 'Mk5'.

For me 1996-2002 is Mk4.  2002-2008 is Mk6.

The supposed Mk5 doesn't even get it's own catalogue!

 

That's a very interesting observation though.  If this is a Mk4, I have virtually no experience with those.  I had assumed 2003 would definitely be Mk6, must have been very late registered.

5 hours ago, bobyn said:

I have replaced the adapter and soldered the two loose wires back in place.

Took screen shots of these reading whilst the car is Idle.

Can you please post a photo of the front of your car. There seems a lot of confusion over exactly which model Fiesta you have.

Hopefully this is more helpful 

4 hours ago, bobyn said:

Hopefully this is more helpful

Oh, okay well that does look like a Mk6 Fiesta to me, my bad. Not sure why the scantool thinks it's a Fusion.

It's so hard to get an accurate understanding of what models of IC are found in what vehicles from the mess you find in google images. So I guess the one from this vehicle was maybe used for the early Mk6 (2002-2005), and the ones that I'd thought were found in all Mk6s are actually just from the Mk6-facelift (2005-2008).

5 hours ago, rd457 said:

Oh, okay well that does look like a Mk6 Fiesta to me, my bad. Not sure why the scantool thinks it's a Fusion.

It's so hard to get an accurate understanding of what models of IC are found in what vehicles from the mess you find in google images. So I guess the one from this vehicle was maybe used for the early Mk6 (2002-2005), and the ones that I'd thought were found in all Mk6s are actually just from the Mk6-facelift (2005-2008).

The UK Fusion is identical to the Mk6 Fiesta electronically.  It just has a slightly different body shell.  (Not to be confused with the US Fusion of course.)

Correct, the clusters are different for pre & post facelift Mk6. 

Pre-facelift:

Post facelift:

 

 

The 'Mk5' cluster looked like this:

So what do you guys think is the next step?

I know wiring as/Soldering as I use to be a wire tech and made car wiring looms. However I'm not a novice with cars and I'm a woman 🙈🤣

The speedo issue is a know problem, there are at least 2 other posts on FOC of people with exact same model and year (Non ABS) who have changed the VSS and it didn't fix the fault. It turned out to be a PCM failure.
https://www.ecutesting.com/common-faults/ford/ford-fiesta-2002-2008-speedo-mileage-stops-working/

As for the gauge sweep on the Instrument cluster, it doesn't do a full sweep, the needles just drop below zero and back to zero for this model.

2 hours ago, Dan62 said:

The speedo issue is a know problem, there are at least 2 other posts on FOC of people with exact same model and year (Non ABS) who have changed the VSS and it didn't fix the fault. It turned out to be a PCM failure.
https://www.ecutesting.com/common-faults/ford/ford-fiesta-2002-2008-speedo-mileage-stops-working/

As for the gauge sweep on the Instrument cluster, it doesn't do a full sweep, the needles just drop below zero and back to zero for this model.

So you believe it could be the ecu?