Avoid "motor Mania" Manchester

[GingerFlame]

copied from my Build log;

Didn't bother purchasing the new car as it was advertised as a non runner, after calling they said it was an ECU fault.

I hired a trailer for £45 and spent around the same on diesel getting there only to find that

1.) The suspension had collapsed

2.) The brakes and everything close to them were held together with rust

3.) The front seat was hanging out

4.) All the interior trim had been misplaced

5.) The loom connecting to the ECU had been wrenched off and the connector was barely in one piece.

6.) The expansion tank was empty as the coolant had poured out of a worn pipe.

7.) One of the headlights was about dead, not road legal

8.) The bonnet had a rust patch

9.) Both number plates were worn out

10.) The Bonnet catch had been ripped out

11.) There were wiring looms pulled out of place everywhere I looked

He said the car had not been given any attention as he has a lot of cars on the for court.. I've seen bigger dealerships with less staff care for their cars better.

Hes known all week that I was going to see the car and he didn't even bother to wipe the moss off the roof.

The dealership is called "motor mania" and is located on the outskirts of Manchester. Avoid it at all costs. The owner called his electrican over to talk to me.. who I was able to confuse by telling him if they've swapped the ECU they must replace the clocks and transponder. Had a good argument .

I decided to walk away after paying a £100 deposit which I've lost. So not only have I lost my car, I've lost my deposit, diesel money and trailer hire. Not happy. I'll be walking till next month at least

I made a point of phoning the dealer to ask him what problems it had, he only mentioned the ECU problem which in my opinion he has made 10x worse by trying to rectify it

He also had cars on his for court that they had MOTd prior to sale which have a pretty high chance of being seized if pulled over for any reason

[The Dark Knight]

How was the car advertised compared to the terrible state it was in and do you have a copy of the advert? If you do, then pursue them for the deposit back. I assume of course that you didn't buy the car in the course of a business, i.e. to do up and sell on for profit?

You have rights (as a consumer) under S.13 of the Sale of Goods Act that the goods must comply with the description. Further to this, they could well be in breach of regulation 6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 - Misleading omissions.

Your deposit before seeing the car formed a distance contract and you have rights to cancel under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. Under regulation 29, you have a right to cancel without incurring any liability and without giving any reason.

[GingerFlame]

The car was described as a non runner but in average condition. It showed pictures of the exterior but not the interior or under the bonnet

It was on the phone that they told us it had no problems except the ECU to which I believed them. But upon arrival I noticed all the above problems. I tried to get my deposit back under false description/advertising but he went of saying he stated on the phone that it was non refundable.

I asked him to prove he said that. Surprise surprise he couldn't. But at the same time I cant prove how he described the car.

I didn't even think about the distant selling regs! :(

[The Dark Knight]

Ok, it's time to kick his sorry little !Removed!. Non-refundable my ar*e!

Here's what you need to do: Obtain a copy of the advert from their website or if you have a printed copy use that (without a copy of the advert, life will be more difficult.)

You then write to them using recorded delivery so you can prove they have got it. Inform them as follows:

That you entered into a distance contract by placing the deposit on the strength of the advert and their word that it had no problems other than the ECU. (The fact you hired a trailer and so on at your cost will look good to the court because who would do all that and not go through with it without good reason?). You would not have entered the contract if they had informed you of the true extent of the cars problems.

The goods were nothing like advertised and they are therefore in breach of S.13 of the Sale of Goods Act - Relevant text below

Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description.

A sale of goods is not prevented from being a sale by description by reason only that, being exposed for sale or hire, they are selected by the buyer.

Also inform them that you exercised your rights to cancel on the day when discovering that the goods were not as described. They refused a refund and are therefore not complying with your rights under reg 29 of the Consumer Contract Regs mentioned above.

Tell them that you seek a refund of the deposit to which you are entitled by law and you also seek compensation for the money shelled out on the trailer and petrol. You must tell them that you are prepared to pursue the matter to the small claims court if you do not receive a satisfactory response. Give them 7-10 days to respond.

If their response is unsatisfactory, you send them a letter before action which gives them official notice of your intention to take them to court. Again 7-10 days to respond and eventually you proceed to filling in an N1 claim form and submitting it to get the ball rolling at court. We will cross those bridges if and when we need to.

For now, get writing as above and draft a chronology of event using MS Word and bullet point notes so you have a clear timeline. These dealers will win 9/10 and sit laughing because they know that the consumer will talk about their rights but never pursue it all the way. Don't be that person!

The cost of going to the small claims court for the amount you would be claiming for is £35. In the unlikely event that you lost, thats it, you aren't liable to pay their legal fees. The fact that they would need to Shell out for a solicitor to fight the case would see them cave in I think because it would cost them more to fight it than pay up.

I'm off out now but can offer further input later

[The Dark Knight]

** Don't mention the unfair trading regs ** We will save that for later when on the sly, we grass them up to trading standards for breaching reg 6.

[The Dark Knight]

I have a PDF copy of the court fees document if you need that. The below link might be useful too:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

[GingerFlame]

Great to hear Ive a chance at recovering my deposit!! As you know what you're talking about.. I don't suppose I could send you my draft letters for you to skim over? Don't want to corner myself or anything!

Thanks for all of the above!! I thought I was stuffed but clearly not!!

[The Dark Knight]

Yes that's fine, I am off to London in the morning but coming back Tuesday so it shouldn't be a problem and I'm off work until Friday anyway. Just remember to keep a copy of the letter and staple your recorded delivery receipt to it. Even get yourself a ring binder folder and put everything in it so that you find things easily. Include your deposit receipt in the folder - A card or bank statement is fine.

If you have or can obtain a copy of the advert, send it with your letter so that they have it when you refer to it in your letter. I'll PM you my email address.

[GingerFlame]

Okay thanks alot! I really appreciate it! I've got a print out of the advert which I managed to get before paying the deposit & him removing the advert. Also, he never got round to giving me the receipt.. must've "forgotten" but ill just get a bank statement

[The Dark Knight]

Excellent work. Make several copies of the advert as it is crucial and type up a chronology of events. If it goes to court, a chronology is useful and I might even have a sample chronology from my studies that will give you an idea.

[The Dark Knight]

Just found this website and their terms and conditions: http://www.motormaniamanchester.co.uk/terms.php

Is that the dealer in question?

To cut all that blurb down to simple terms, if you bring a case against them saying that you saw their advert on the website, they will boast that they have successfully excluded liability. They will boast that by using the website, you exclude any right to rely on the information held on it and cannot bring a claim against them based upon it.

Again in simple terms, you have entered into a contract by placing the deposit and you now want to claim that they have breached S.13 of SOGA. They turn around and start preaching about their terms and conditions as above.

What they have forgotten about is S.6 of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. This states as follows:

As against a person dealing as consumer, liability for breach of the obligations arising from -

Section 13 14 or 15 of the 1979 Act (seller's implied undertakings as to conformity of goods with description or sample, or as to their quality or fitness for a particular purpose);

Cannot be excluded or restricted by reference to any contract term.

Might not need that bit but I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a claim that they are not liable. I would also expect them to take as long as possible before replying.

[GingerFlame]

Yes thats the dealer's site. althoughi saw the car on Autotrader and haven't actually visited their site until just now as i used autotrader for their address & contact details etc

So does the above effect reduce the amount of rights i have at all? asive been noting down everything youve said above and if things are no longer applicablethen ill cross them out

Thanks

[Stoney871]

I'm not thoroughly versed in consumer law (not my general speciality) but Dave's guidance is solid advice.

I strongly dislike companies that try to ride roughshod over the rights of buyers.

[The Dark Knight]

As a user of autotrader myself I would say it makes no difference to your claim. Autotrader don't do the advert for you, it is you that types the advert out and have responsibility for it. Indeed, Matlock Ford use autotrader and their adverts on there are basically copy and paste from their own site.

I would imagine Autotrader would have some legal warning to businesses advertising on there that they cannot be held liable for any mistakes made by the dealer when placing the advert.

Also, the statute does not concern itself with when or where the advert was, just what it contained compared to what the goods actually turned out to be.

[GingerFlame]

I'm not thoroughly versed in consumer law (not my general soeciality) but Dave's guidance is solid advice.

I strongly dislike companies that try to ride roughshod over the rights of buyers.

It's probably the best advice i've had since i signed p to the forum and i've had a lot of advice for different things! And we're only a few posts in..

Great to hear it won't affect my claim. Time to drag out the GCSE english skills! I haven't written a formal letter in a good while.

Who should i address the letter to? The business itself or the sole owner?

thanks again!

[The Dark Knight]

I'm not saying this is 100% guaranteed success I should add but wouldn't encourage action if I didn't feel strongly about it. I have been using my online law databases which I still have access to via uni website to double check bits and pieces.

Address the letter to managing director and send it to the dealer address. 1st class recorded is ideal and don't forget to date it. Sounds daft but many miss out the basics. We need to ensure we have things covered on all fronts.

[GingerFlame]

I'm not saying this is 100% guaranteed success I should add but wouldn't encourage action if I didn't feel strongly about it. I have been using my online law databases which I still have access to via uni website to double check bits and pieces.

Address the letter to managing director and send it to the dealer address. 1st class recorded is ideal and don't forget to date it. Sounds daft but many miss out the basics. We need to ensure we have things covered on all fronts.

Without your help there'd be no chance of success. Now i know I have a foot to stand on!

Ive a document from Companies house listing the Company director. Is the company director the managing director?

Although it says andirector appointment was canceled last year which was somebody elses name..take it I write to the current name then aha

[The Dark Knight]

Happy to help. You can literally address it to managing director or you could phone the dealer without letting on who you are and what it's about and ask for his or her name.

[GingerFlame]

Happy to help. You can literally address it to managing director or you could phone the dealer without letting on who you are and what it's about and ask for his or her name.

Good thinking.. call with interest on a car.. ask who I've been talking to!

[The Dark Knight]

Just had another thought. Did you pay the £100 by credit card? You can pursue credit card companies under the consumer credit act for the money back. This is usually resolved over the phone or in the bank that issued the card rather than going to court. The card company then pursue the dealer for the amount they are out of pocket for.

Debit cards have a similar scheme from various banks but it is not written into law like credit cards.

[GingerFlame]

Just had another thought. Did you pay the £100 by credit card? You can pursue credit card companies under the consumer credit act for the money back. This is usually resolved over the phone or in the bank that issued the card rather than going to court. The card company then pursue the dealer for the amount they are out of pocket for.

Debit cards have a similar scheme from various banks but it is not written into law like credit cards.

I paid by debit card.. Could it still be resolved that way?

[The Dark Knight]

You can ask the bank what their policy is on that. They should have a scheme in place.

You can't recover the £45 plus petrol via them though. For now, continue with the plan of writing the letter and so on but when you get a chance this week, phone or call into your bank and ask what scheme they have in place.

[The Dark Knight]

How's the letter going?

[GingerFlame]

Got a few paragraphs in! But I'm having trouble finding the advert I printed out -_- not happy.. I'm trying to retrieve the advert from my Chrome cache

[The Dark Knight]

Hopefully you can find it because without it, you will have no evidence of their advert and won't be able to proceed down this road with any confidence.

One approach to take if you can't find it or can't find the history on your browser would be to contact autotrader and see if they can dig it out of their computer archives.