firefoxed Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 This whole process has been a real pain, first they ordered the wrong engine and the guy didn't notice until he was putting it in the car. Engine number two arrived and was fitted and he said there was warning lights because the replacement engine was from a manual car and mine was an automatic, he had to switch a couple of parts which involved pulling the engine back out again. So I got a call today to say the car was good to go with no problems at all. After placing the car in drive and starting off the first gear change seems a bit heavy and gives a fair shunt. I was hoping this would be something minor but after parking the car up for a couple of hours when I restarted it the engine warning light came on. I ran the dashboard diagnostic and the only code that comes back is E196 Invalid data for engine RPM (Invalid CAN message). Back to the garage again tomorrow for the car to be put through some tests, over the phone they reckon it is something minor maybe a faulty sensor after the engine swap. Beginning to feel as if I had got myself into a bottomless pit at this stage, the car has been with them longer now that it was in my possession. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 well they had there chance to fix it so if youre not happy hand it back from what ive read so far they dont fill me with confidence that they have a clue about ford engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Time for a no quibble FULL refund I think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleaner Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Agree with Artscot,,,,time to kick em into touch they had their chance,,,,,I would say there is some thing else a miss because it matters not if the engine is the same capacity as one replaced it won't matter being bolted to a manual box or an auto,,,,to an auto all they have to do is change the flywheel to one that will except the bolts for the torque converter to bolt to it,,,I can only assume they changed the ECU as well from the donor car to match the engine. The problem could be that they have put the new engine in using the crank and cam sensors from your auto boxed engine,,,the crank and cam sensors are different on an auto even more so the crank sensor as it works in league with the auto box sensor for managing change up and kick down speeds. I suppose if you are ok with them keep trying to fix the problem they would be happy but have to say if they were worth their salt mechanically they should have been competent enough to have sorted this relatively easy. Good luck which ever route you go but they have tried twice and by the sound of it fouled,,,,I can not see any reason now why you would not get a full refund.... Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefoxed Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Thank you all for your advice. The ecu was not replaced with the engine, when I saw the mechanic on Monday he showed me a circular piece of metal about 2 inch diameter with a bar coming out of it. He said on the automatic and manual the little bar is on a different part of the disc and it showed on a diagnostic check and that was why he pulled the engine again. I parked the car up a couple of hours ago and then went back down to have a look and we have an oil leak, with what appears to be splashes coming up under the bumper. There are oil spots on the ground and the engine is pretty wet underneath along with the gearbox. Plan of action is to go to the dealers in the morning and reject the car and any future repairs being done by them. I will be asking for a full refund plus other out of pocket expenses. If they refuse the refund I will leave it in to a Ford dealer to get an estimate on the work needed to get the car right, if the repair is less than 2K I will take them to the small claims court. They are registered with SIMI which is The Society of the Irish motor industry, being members they are meant to follow a code of ethics so I will be contacting them also for help sorting it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleaner Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well Firefox good luck to ya,,,,,stand your ground and remember don't let the B---rds grind ya down..... Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefoxed Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well Firefox good luck to ya,,,,,stand your ground and remember don't let the B---rds grind ya down..... Paul Brought the car to the dealer this morning and asked for my money back. I explained the problems and he asked if his mechanic could have a look at the car. The mechanic spent about 20 minutes with the car and then asked me to go for a drive with him. He said that he plugged in and found a sensor loose on top of the engine (near alternator to the right) after reseating it correctly the error went away. When I drove the car the gearbox was no longer jumping, it was changing the gears smooth (mechanic thinks there was air pocket in it) I asked about the oil leak and he said he believed it was just excess oil from when the engine was been swapped. He wiped the engine down and he wanted to see if the any more leaks showed up. His advice is that the car is perfect and he is independent from the dealer and just does work for them so he owes no loyalty. He drives a 2005 Focus himself and my engine sounds much quieter than his. I went back and spoke with the salesman and told him I was not convinced and my gut feeling was still to seek a refund. He explained that the owner is not due back until Monday and it would be only him that could authorise a refund. I have been asked to drive the car until Monday and if I am not happy come back and see the owner. He has also asked if I would feel more comfortable with the repair if they give an extended warranty, this will need to be sanctioned by the owner also. Kind of weird driving the car now, it's like having a nasty taste in your mouth. Even if there are no leaks and the engine and gearbox are perfect over the next few days I am not sure if I will keep it. I think it's possible the whole process has ruined this car for me which sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 from working in garages heres a few tips dont listen to the mechanic independant or not like the rest of us he needs cash to survive and ill assure you hes paid well and has a degree of loyalty to the dealer 2nd most dealer extended waranties arent worth the paper they are printed on theres a small print about wear and tear not being covered so naything that goes the warranty company will say its not new so its wear and tear. give it a drive for a few days if all is well and youre happy then make youre own mind up if you take the extended warranty make sur eyou get in writing what they are covering sometimes these bad experiences can lead to a good car in the end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefoxed Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 from working in garages heres a few tips dont listen to the mechanic independant or not like the rest of us he needs cash to survive and ill assure you hes paid well and has a degree of loyalty to the dealer 2nd most dealer extended waranties arent worth the paper they are printed on theres a small print about wear and tear not being covered so naything that goes the warranty company will say its not new so its wear and tear. give it a drive for a few days if all is well and youre happy then make youre own mind up if you take the extended warranty make sur eyou get in writing what they are covering sometimes these bad experiences can lead to a good car in the end Some good advice there, thank you. Fingers crossed all goes well, looking forward to moving into it properly and make it feel like my own car. I would like to do a few of the smaller mods from the guides section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dv666 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If your car is the 1.6 diesel you are better off getting your money back from the dealer. Please take heed - these engines are a nightmare-just look at all the postings on the various forums. my Focus 2 has injectors that have been leaking and the sump is full of large granules of carbon that have effectively lunched the oil pump-I've got a low oil pressure condition showing on the dashboard and a car that is in effect useless as it would cost more to replace the engine than the car is worth!. I even looked at the cost of a replacement oil strainer - £40! - Ford are taking the mickey with this price given that they already know that consumers have been conned by these cars. I will NEVER buy another Ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If your car is the 1.6 diesel you are better off getting your money back from the dealer. Please take heed - these engines are a nightmare-just look at all the postings on the various forums. my Focus 2 has injectors that have been leaking and the sump is full of large granules of carbon that have effectively lunched the oil pump-I've got a low oil pressure condition showing on the dashboard and a car that is in effect useless as it would cost more to replace the engine than the car is worth!. I even looked at the cost of a replacement oil strainer - £40! - Ford are taking the mickey with this price given that they already know that consumers have been conned by these cars. I will NEVER buy another Ford Would regular oil & filter changes not have removed this carbon? Surely one bad experience isn't enough to put you for a whole brand? If thats the case you'll soon be out of brands to choose from, as pretty much all used cars have one issue or another Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just goes to show peoples different experiences - I have owned & driven eleven different Frauds since 1979 & I have never had a problem with any of them - mind you I never owned the nightmare engined model described above 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dv666 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Would regular oil & filter changes not have removed this carbon? Surely one bad experience isn't enough to put you for a whole brand? If thats the case you'll soon be out of brands to choose from, as pretty much all used cars have one issue or another Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk It is, actually enough to put me off as we paid good money and no longer have the use of the car as is the case with many owners of this Ford - Our car has always had regular oil and fuel and filter changes and with the correct Ford Formula-F oil so I dont consider that we have been negligent in any way. As an aside Ford dont exactly encourage owners to maintain their cars when they charge £45 for a diesel fuel filter-even one of the guys at a Ford dealer in Cambs said to me "I dont understand why they cost this much". The point that I am trying to get across is that we consiously decided to buy a Ford and now my wife doesn't have a car after 4 years of ownership anymore because the engine was not researched enough by Ford! - Oh, and by the way, our other car - a Volkswagen has nearly 300K miles on the clock and has only had the odd electrical malady to deal in 10 years, so to say I will 'run out of brands' is rather silly. May I suggest you educate yourself by googling the forums for all there is to read on the frankly awful PSA 1.6 diesel engine fitted to the Focus 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 It is, actually enough to put me off as we paid good money and no longer have the use of the car as is the case with many owners of this Ford - Our car has always had regular oil and fuel and filter changes and with the correct Ford Formula-F oil so I dont consider that we have been negligent in any way. As an aside Ford dont exactly encourage owners to maintain their cars when they charge £45 for a diesel fuel filter-even one of the guys at a Ford dealer in Cambs said to me "I dont understand why they cost this much". The point that I am trying to get across is that we consiously decided to buy a Ford and now my wife doesn't have a car after 4 years of ownership anymore because the engine was not researched enough by Ford! - Oh, and by the way, our other car - a Volkswagen has nearly 300K miles on the clock and has only had the odd electrical malady to deal in 10 years, so to say I will 'run out of brands' is rather silly. May I suggest you educate yourself by googling the forums for all there is to read on the frankly awful PSA 1.6 diesel engine fitted to the Focus 2. If the engine is so bad.. and the forums are full of people talking about the frankly awful PSA 1.6 diesel engine fintted to the focus 2, why buy it in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Off topic here since its not a diesel engine to be fair the PSA engine is pretty bad but that's Peugeots for you anyway to be honest I wouldn't buy a diesel as I dont personally like or warrant needing one but if I did with a brand as notoriously unreliable as Peugeot it wouldn't be that engine but the old ford lynx engine the carbon in the oil sump is due to the dpf regen not being completed dumping some fuel into the oil this is caused by not doing enough miles not allowing the temp to get high enough to do the regen and not following the recommendation that if you don't do the miles to take it on s motorway once a month and run it in fourth gear at high revs so in reality its due to the wrong car being purchased for the wrong type of driving and poor knowledge of the dpf system before purchase people need to understand a diesel is useless if you don't do the daily miles I also had a VW Passat and its a pile of junk electrical problems every week and a stupid expensive front suspension and they did put a stupid pollen filter where it overflows into the car wiping out the control boxes they cleverly put right under it on the passenger floor so as above theres always a bad one no matter what make you get 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 It is fair to state that this particular engine is a well known lemon that ruins an otherwise good car & unlike more recent PSA engines I'm not sure how much input Ford had with the engineering of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol..the DV6 isn't a Peugeot engine in reality, it's a joint venture between PSA and Ford. And used by Volvo, Suzuki, Mini etc as well. Yes it's a terrible engine, it doesn't even do what you expect from such an engine (economy!) but it's not a Peugeot engine and it's not Ford's fault either. To be put off a whole brand because of one car or engine is just daft really. I wouldn't buy another DV6 engined car, whether it was a Peugeot or a Ford, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a different engine in these cars!! Ford make one of the best petrol engines going atm with the 1.0 EcoBoost. And tbh the 2.0 TDCi 'Peugeot engine' in the older Focus' is decent as well... As for the ridiculously priced fuel filter, my mate is a Ford tech and even on trade they are expensive, no-one seems to know why! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I wouldn't say the ecoboost is the best either since ford have already been sued in the u.s for issues with the engine turbo failures cracked manifolds and wet belt lube problems are also happening its a good engine there are questions over how long it will last ford just didn't test it enough first and iron the flaws out PSA and Volvo have collaborated on engines for years as have ford PSA... BMW PSA also have collaborated till BMW decided they're own engines were better and Mazda are still part of ford as Volvo once was... ford and Yamaha Suzuki collaborated on engines also .....ah the tangled web we weave lol This is the nature of car manufacturing many of kias interior features such as dash and audio etc look very ford so are probably supplied by the same company Volvo though Chinese may still use ford chassis just like some Citroen Peugeot Toyotas do the point is they are all so intertwined that one bad design can affect many makes not just ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Arthur, where can I find out about 1.0 ecoboost having issues and being sued in the usa?Know usa got issues with the v6 ecoboost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefoxed Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 If your car is the 1.6 diesel you are better off getting your money back from the dealer. My engine is a 1.6 petrol which is a Duratec model as far as I know and on a positive note is showing no oil leaks and is still running smooth. Maybe the dealer has finally got it sorted I have owned a few Fords over the years and never had a problem with any of them. My problem at the moment is a dealer repair issue and not specific to Ford as a brand. My last car was a 00 Focus which never gave me a moments problem and I only sold it due to recent increases on insurance policies on cars over 15 yeas old. Over the years I have also owned many French cars which always gave problem electrically and I avoid them now at all costs. Best of luck getting yours up and running. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dv666 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 If the engine is so bad.. and the forums are full of people talking about the frankly awful PSA 1.6 diesel engine fintted to the focus 2, why buy it in the first place? Actually, I like many people sir, read forums when there is a problem with their car, and in this instance the problem was far far less widespread 4 years ago when I bought it, than it is now. In any case people should look out for each other and not pass on cars like the PSA 1.6 that are likely to be trouble to their customers. I STILL think you are missing the point - these engines , jointly developed by Ford and Peugeot engineers, were not properly researched before they went to market and THAT is my point. DO YOU GET IT??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Actually, I like many people sir, read forums when there is a problem with their car, and in this instance the problem was far far less widespread 4 years ago when I bought it, than it is now. In any case people should look out for each other and not pass on cars like the PSA 1.6 that are likely to be trouble to their customers. I STILL think you are missing the point - these engines , jointly developed by Ford and Peugeot engineers, were not properly researched before they went to market and THAT is my point. DO YOU GET IT???????Can I just say.. I'm not deaf or blind. No need for caps lock. At the end of the day. All cars have their issues. wether that be minor or major, they all have some kind of problem. Wether wear or tear, or Inherited from the initial design. You just happen to have picked the Ford that has an expensive one. Rather unfortunate that you're letting This put you off Ford's altogether Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 when you read all the posts onthis forum, most are diesel related issues of concern, you will find if you talk to mechanics out there that most now drive petrol cars. i wonder why? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 DPF's & EGRV's have ruined the otherwise perfectly functional car diesel engine & also the misselling of diesel powered cars hasn't been useful Driven as intended & serviced correctly, there's no reason why any half decent diesel car engine, ( with the odd exception ) should not be good for at least 250,000 miles I've personally covered in excess of 60,000 miles in 2 different diesel Fords without any issues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Well said, diesels were slow and reliable before that crap was put on and old style injectors that didnt leak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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