Dpf regens.how do you know

[michaelburrows]

Iv been driving my 2012 focus 2.0 tdci 163 for 3 months now. Every now and then it gets a gud run for 30 mi s in 4th gear at about 2.5 to 3k revs just because thats what iv been led to believe it requires to start a regen. I also gave it a gud fast 200 mile trip to yorkshire a couple of weeks ago. Question.  How can i tell if car requires me to help it regen     if it does it automatically how do i know it is   because i dont want to turn it off if its in the process of a regen. I love the car. But seems a bit of a nightmare these dpf s.  I may or may not ever get a problem with it. Most drivers havnt even heard of em let alone adjust their driving style to suit it. 

[ScotsFocus]

I have a 2010 Focus 2.0 tdci DPF on 104k and so far no probs!  Had it from 8k and 10month old.  It gets BP ultimate diesel, or Bp normal or Esso!  Most of the week it gets 16miles a day when working and a right good run when off at 20-40miles 4th-5th with rev 2.5k to 3k with a few burst to 4K no problems with DPF no idea if it goes into regen mode or not!  But got asked where I get my fuel at last service/MOT as low emissions and clean fuel filter! 

[pragmatix]

If your doing decent mileage then no need for the Italian tune up, the regens  happen if they are needed, you may get a change in exhaust note and your mpg may drop a bit in short don't worry.

[michaelburrows]

Thanks for that guys. I thi k ill just drive as i normally do and keep fingers xd.  So am i right in thinking that even by doing an italian tune up ??the car may or still may not be forced into a regen depending on whatever it is that tells the engine to start one.  Its mad. 

[n_hudson]

2 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

Thanks for that guys. I thi k ill just drive as i normally do and keep fingers xd.  So am i right in thinking that even by doing an italian tune up ??the car may or still may not be forced into a regen depending on whatever it is that tells the engine to start one.  Its mad. 

You can tell if its started \ in the middle of a regen from the exhaust smell... it smells horrid, like melting rubber. I believe the revs will seem a little higher than normal and it will only start a regen when revs are held above a certain level. 

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

I thi k ill just drive as i normally do and keep fingers xd.  So am i right in thinking that even by doing an italian tune up ??the car may or still may not be forced into a regen depending on whatever it is that tells the engine to start one. 

There are 3 sorts of DPF regen:

Passive: This happens if the DPF gets hot enough in normal running to start to burn off some soot. Even on a motorway cruising at 70, this does not happen very much. Driving hard (eg in lower gear) can cause some passive regen, but also wastes fuel and increases engine wear.

Active: This is when the ECU thinks the soot load has reached a limit. The DPF DP sensor plays a vital role in this, and failures in this bit of kit (sensor or hoses) are common. Wrong readings can trigger active regens too often, or not often enough. Also as the DPF ages, and gets more ash in it, it will reach its limit sooner, with more frequent regens.

For an active regen, the ECU changes the injector timing, may inject some fuel very late so it passes into the DPF and burns there, and in some cars like Mondeos, uses direct heating of the DPF. The ECU controls the process, and it can take place in normal driving, though it usually needs a speed over 50mph on a flat road, to work. It can take 5 to 15 minutes, I believe. If interrupted by a long stop or end of journey, it may have to restart on the next journey. That is why cars used only for short journeys can have DPF problems.

Active is the normal, intended method for regens.

Forced: A diagnostic tool is connected to the car, and it forces a regen process that can take place with the car stationary. It is very noisy, and uses quite a lot of fuel. It is only used if the normal active regen has failed for some time, or can not be used for some reason.

So a lot of the advice about having to drive very fast or in low gear is wrong. But some decent longish runs outside an urban (30) area are needed on a regular basis.

However, a brief burst of Italian clean-out now and again can still be good for the engine, especially if it has only used for short or urban journeys for several days. It can burn off some carbon around the exhaust ports & turbo vanes, for example. Full power up a hill on a dual-carriageway is one way to do this.

 

[michaelburrows]

Great advice there. Thanks folks.  This smell .do you actually smell it in the car or only outside.  Cos if its outside and youre drivi g along i can see how you would smell it.

[pragmatix]

1 hour ago, michaelburrows said:

Great advice there. Thanks folks.  This smell .do you actually smell it in the car or only outside.  Cos if its outside and youre drivi g along i can see how you would smell it.

I've never smelt it

[Guitarjon]

I bought my Mk3 1.6tdci knowing about the dreaded def issues. I bought oncondition and spec more than anything as I’d have bene better with a petrol for how much I use the car but I was so impressed with the engine. I’ve come on this forum to find out about the dog, dual mass fly wheel and any common problems, I’m in the middle of my research at the moment but I feel anybody but has any quick bookmarked links that would be helpful. 

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Guitarjon said:

Mk3 1.6tdci knowing about the dreaded dpf issues.

Both the engine and the DPF system in the Mk3 are much better than in the Mk2/2a. So when reading about problems with the 1.6TDCI, check it relates to the DV6C used in the Mk3, not the DV6. It is almost a completely re-designed engine.

I have not seen many threads about problems with the DV6C engine, DPF or EGR systems.

If you need it, a wiring diagram for the Mk3 Focus is available on this site.

Forscan is a very useful tool for any Ford owner to have. I have written about it many times, see some of my recent posts if interested.

DMFs can last a long time. I recommend avoiding wide throttle openings below about 1600rpm though. A diesel will chuck out a lot of torque at low rpm, but the fluctuations put more strain on the DMF. Changing down a gear will reduce the strain a lot.

Schematic: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=42086

[TomsFocus]

3 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

Great advice there. Thanks folks.  This smell .do you actually smell it in the car or only outside.  Cos if its outside and youre drivi g along i can see how you would smell it.

You'll only smell it reversing into a parking space with the window down...but the deafening noise from the max speed cooling fan is a better indicator at that time!  The engine note gets a bit rougher and the instant MPG drops dramatically while on the motorway which is a good indicator that it's doing a regen while driving.

There's no need to run it at high revs in 4th, this was the old 'advice' given by dealers when DPFs first came out, it's totally unnecessary these days.  Really you shouldn't notice it at all with 'normal' driving, it's only people using them for mainly town where it's an issue.

[michaelburrows]

Thanks for youre advice and comments guys

[DJ_Andy_M]

With mine I tend to notice the its making a burbling sound and I can feel it through the steering wheel. Another obvious give away is the rush of heat I feel when I open the door with a smell of metallic burning.

[isetta]

i have never noticed it when actually driving along.

Very occasionally when I am parking with the engine idling the engine temperature is normal on the temp guage but the radiator fan is running at max speed. I believe during a regen the fans go fast and when it is doing this when I park it is part way through a regen cycle.

So, based on various stuff I have read which might be right or wrong, I drive off again and thrash it a bit until it will idle with the radiator fan off (or at least fan not go so fast that I can hear it).

If you don't do that, the extra diesel being chucked into the engine to assist with the regen ends up in the sump and dilutes the oil (so it is thinner and level goes up on the dipstick). Is that right?

Is that the right thing to do or not. There is so much scare stuff on the internet about dpf regen that you don't know what is right or wrong and what affects your car model or not.

Using a OBD code reader and free software is there a way I can read when it last did a regen (eg. how many miles ago)? what software? I know I have introduced a new question there which I would like an answer to but it will all help the original poster also

 

[michaelburrows]

Thats intresting. Now im likely to get diesel mixing withmy engine oil raising the level and thining my oil. FFS. Its a never ending disaster waiting to happen wishing i had bought a petrol car now.iv never actually seen or heard the fan/s running at all. How many do i have. Iv seen what  h think is the only one on and offing with air con working. But even that dosnt go all the time. On and off as it feels like it i think.

[n_hudson]

9 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

Great advice there. Thanks folks.  This smell .do you actually smell it in the car or only outside.  Cos if its outside and youre drivi g along i can see how you would smell it.

I've only ever smelt it when I've parked up and its either been in the middle of \ finishing a regen

[shamus1]

if you pull up somewhere and hear the fan theres no need to go off driving again,just sit there until fan has switched off which is a sign regen has finished.

[michaelburrows]

Do you mean just sit there with fan on or with engine running as well untill fan stops

[isetta]

with the engine running. 

My previous fiesta 1.6tdci was a 2007 car with no dpf.   My current fiesta 1.5tdci is 2015 with dpf. When replacing my car I was thinking should I go petrol due to the dpf worries but I didn't want to give up the superior torque and fuel economy (I do about 16-17k miles per year).  No problems so far. I have owned it 21 months. I have only noticed it doing the regen when parking about 6 times.  I do not know how often it should do it and if it has been doing it when I have been travelling on motorway.  It does worry me hence why I asked if anyone can tell me how to check how long ago it last did a regen. I don't regret buying it yet instead of a petrol car but it is just always in the back of my mind that the dpf is the achiles heal of these diesel cars. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I can get 150k miles out of it before problems. At 150k I will feel i got my money's worth out of the car. Problems before that will annoy me.

(I did 146k in my 2007 fiesta before selling it to a family member)

[Tdci-Peter]

6 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

Now im likely to get diesel mixing withmy engine oil raising the level and thining my oil.

Comments on the internet were very common about that problem, but I suspect they relate to the older DV6 engine with its Eolys based DPF system. Has anyone seen any such comments about the later engines with cDPFs in the Mk3 Focus? They fixed a lot of problems with the redesign, hopefully including that one.

8 hours ago, isetta said:

Using a OBD code reader and free software is there a way I can read when it last did a regen (eg. how many miles ago)? what software?

On the Mk2 DV6 engine, Forscan could certainly display a reading (PID) called DIST_REGEN, which is distance in km from the last regen attempt. Unfortunately, It looks like on cDPF models like the Mk3 Focus (and some later Mk2a's), this does not seem to exist.

However there is likely to still be a DPF DP PID, showing the pressure drop over the DPF. If tested under identical conditions (rpm & power), this should drop after a regen, But it will not be a clear, simple indicator.

My last car was petrol, and had several expensive problems with O2 sensors and cats. It had to be scrapped earlier than I wanted as it failed emissions, probably another cat or O2 sensor problem. That was one of the reasons I went for a diesel.

[TomsFocus]

Diesel topping up oil is still a common issue with a modern DPF diesel, still happens on the 1.5TDCI too as my mate complained to Ford about it on his mk3.5 Focus.  Extra fuel is chucked in post ignition, in the hope that it continues to burn into the exhaust and hot cat to heat up the DPF enough to burn off the soot.  It's fairly inevitable that some of this excess fuel will run down the bores and past the rings even without stopping the regen.  If the regen stops (due to a drop in engine speed usually) there's a good chance that more of this diesel will enter the oil.

It's not a huge issue though, as I find they burn a little oil anyway, so the level goes up after a regen and then down again over a week or so.  I don't worry about stopping regens midway, it'll start again next time I go out, the regen won't be very effective idling in a driveway anyway.

[michaelburrows]

Intrezting subject this dpf regen. Everyone has their own view of what happens and when. Iv yet to experience it.

[isetta]

"It's not a huge issue though, as I find they burn a little oil anyway, so the level goes up after a regen and then down again over a week or so. "   but I worry that the lubrication qualities of diesel fuel are not as good as Castrol magnetec oil. Each time it happens it means the % of diesel in the oil gets higher.

[iantt]

if the regens are frequent and oil dilution is determined to have occoured then the "oil change now" message will appear regardless of mileage or service interval 

[michaelburrows]

That leads me to another question. How many failed regens can occur b4 the diesel that ends up in the oil sump waters the oil down to the poibt tbat you need to reolace it b4 it damages ure engine