21 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Lol, there is that. But if people are put off buying EVs by the price, I doubt they'd be willing or able to pay the same (or more) for ICE, either. So they might not sell any cars at all, so good news for Greta, polar bears and dolphins, then!😀

Have you looked at the price of a new ford focus to the equivalent  EV (lets say an MG4 EV)  the EV is £1500 CHEAPER, it's not the price of new EV putting people off. People seen to be forgetting the STARTING price for a Focus is £28,500 a Kuga starts at £33,400, a Focus ST is over £39,000

In 2022, around 1.94 million motor vehicles were sold in the United Kingdom, down from its peak at around 3.1 million units in 2016. This figure represents a decrease of 5.1 percent year-on-year, people just don't have the money for a new car full stop, be that ICE or EV

 

OH look Ford in the USA are cutting back on EVs, don't forget Ford has dropped it most popular model in Europe the Fiesta , Ford have Lightning stuck on the lot, maybe that's because they actually build them in the first place unlike what been happening with the Focus here were waiting list have been months and months for a car to be built..

2 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

 

In 2022, around 1.94 million motor vehicles were sold in the United Kingdom, down from its peak at around 3.1 million units in 2016. This figure represents a decrease of 5.1 percent year-on-year, people just don't have the money for a new car full stop, be that ICE or EV

 

The last few years are not exactly representative due to COVID then semiconductor shortages and parts supply chains due to Ukraine conflict. 2023 figures are so far better than 2022. New car sales are up 20% in 2023 . 

Also in 2022 there was a small increase in private buyer market share and the fleet market is where the drop was. 

19 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

Have you looked at the price of a new ford focus to the equivalent  EV (lets say an MG4 EV)  the EV is £1500 CHEAPER, it's not the price of new EV putting people off. People seen to be forgetting the STARTING price for a Focus is £28,500 a Kuga starts at £33,400, a Focus ST is over £39,000

That's a very good point Mark, though the MG is a bit of an outlier on price compared to the rest, e.g. Corsa, VW ID 3 at £38k or so. You can easily understand why MG sales are increasing particularly with private buyers who don't get tax concessions.

Its a bit ironic in a way. Western governments are trying to reduce dependency on Chinese technology particularly in the IT/telecoms sectors, yet low carbon transport policies are pushing cash conscious buyers towards Chinese EVs

An independent think tank has tallied the government subsidies to EV interests and the hidden costs of charging an EV. The actual costs are very difficult to find because they are being shrouded by using a series of funding pass through tricks from one entity to another, each entity or organization getting a taste of taxpayer money before handing off the money pot.

This probably helps explain why our electrical infrastructure is not actually being upgraded here in America. The subsidies are actually about distribution of money, not about creating enough electrical infrastructure capacity to charge the batteries on four million vehicles.

The number of EVs that cannot use the Tesla Supercharger system is not going to improve anytime soon. I suspect that Tesla owners are going to have issues with “OTT” (other than Tesla) vehicles that have adapted or updated to the Tesla style plug in the future. Getting an eighty percent charge to have a reasonable amount of range is going to make the Superchargers a crowded space. Especially when the other chargers are incapable of getting a near full charge in less than two hours.

I believe that the scam is going to unravel as people see how the true costs of buying and charging the EV is exposed. And that is happening.

7 hours ago, Scottman said:

An independent think tank has tallied the government subsidies to EV interests and the hidden costs of charging an EV. The actual costs are very difficult to find because they are being shrouded by using a series of funding pass through tricks from one entity to another, each entity or organization getting a taste of taxpayer money before handing off the money pot.

This probably helps explain why our electrical infrastructure is not actually being upgraded here in America. The subsidies are actually about distribution of money, not about creating enough electrical infrastructure capacity to charge the batteries on four million vehicles.

The number of EVs that cannot use the Tesla Supercharger system is not going to improve anytime soon. I suspect that Tesla owners are going to have issues with “OTT” (other than Tesla) vehicles that have adapted or updated to the Tesla style plug in the future. Getting an eighty percent charge to have a reasonable amount of range is going to make the Superchargers a crowded space. Especially when the other chargers are incapable of getting a near full charge in less than two hours.

I believe that the scam is going to unravel as people see how the true costs of buying and charging the EV is exposed. And that is happening.

I just don’t think EV’s are the answer to ‘pollution’ generally.The process to manufacture is pretty dirty.Hydrogen could well gain traction at some point,Toyota is now experimenting with it.We need a mix of propulsion.For any one who does not believe that the process in the manufacture of EV’s is not dirty is delusional.I have many sources(all legit btw) that can be shared.

11 hours ago, Hackney said:

I just don’t think EV’s are the answer to ‘pollution’ generally

Many of us on here believe the same thing. The view is getting more traction as the actual deadline for conversion looms ever closer. Just like your homework at school, most didn't pay attention until hand in day when you did it on the bus to school 🤣

I have just learned that Sadiq (emperor of London), has forced the NHS to spend £65 Million (of tax payers money) on ensuring a new fleet of ambulances meet his new ULEZ rules - that can't morally be right, can it?

Glasgow Council have,  according to The Sun, paid £100,000 in a month,  to hire in vehicles that meet the Glasgow LEZ criteria to replace non-compliant vans and trucks. 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/motors/11118779/snp-council-bosses-hypocrisy-lez-taxpayer-cars/

 

And according to The Glasgow Times replacing the current fleet will cost in the region of £30million!!! 

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23638835.cost-making-glasgow-council-vehicles-lez-ready-revealed/

3 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I have just learned that Sadiq (emperor of London), has forced the NHS to spend £65 Million (of tax payers money) on ensuring a new fleet of ambulances meet his new ULEZ rules - that can't morally be right, can it?

NHS must have some old bangers driving around then as any diesel after 2016 is pretty much compliant. NHS are constantly renewing there fleets of vehicles. We do loads for them and have done for years. 

5 minutes ago, iantt said:

NHS must have some old bangers driving around then as any diesel after 2016 is pretty much compliant. NHS are constantly renewing there fleets of vehicles. We do loads for them and have done for years. 

Interesting, though the story has been widely reported...

https://www.mylondon.news/news/transport/nhs-spending-almost-65m-make-28135256

However, I'm always tempered by 'money' issues where the NHS is concerned as any organisation who constantly preaches that they are short of funds, yet spends over £40 Million/year on 'diversity', is run by a bunch of certifiable muppets...

Even unison have been calling for newer better ambulances . Damned if you do, damned if you don't. A quarter of there ambulances are way past there sell by date to be fair. So not exactly a new fleet but replacement of quarter of there fleet. . You should see the state of the ex NHS vehicles that are dropped off to us to swap for new. And not exactly old either. 

4 minutes ago, iantt said:

..You should see the state of the ex NHS vehicles that are dropped off to us to swap for new. And not exactly old either. 

Maybe you can confirm something for me. Do you know if ambulances are exempt from being changed to EVs, just like military, fire trucks & police cars?

No idea. I would think so due to there 24/7 use wouldn't be suitable for current EV tech. The mod are going hybrid and plug  in hybrid for some of there vehicles. The police  in jersey have  EV patrol cars and have done for a number of years . Again, "suitable" is the key word for jersey police. Low mileage,  and lots of available time to top up charge. Around us the police use some  plug in hybrids . EV would be ok for our town as not much goes on , quite a low crime rate I'm guessing. ... Going to check now. 

There's quite a lot of taxis that are EV round us too. So they managing with charging up at night. Again it's suitable as our town pretty much goes dead/deserted  after 10pm. 

So if Police cars are still going to be petrol or diesel, who is going to be making them ? All car manufactures have been told to stop the building of all new ICE vehicles from 2032.

Also if Fire Engines are exempt then again who is making the new diesel engines for them ?

****** STOP PRESS ******

China have come forward and have kindly offered to provide all the ICE vehicles the western world will require once their own manufactures have ceased production. Thank goodness we can rely on China to help us out 🤣

6 minutes ago, unofix said:

China have come forward and have kindly offered to provide all the ICE vehicles the western world will require ...

Not only that, but they will be produced by proper coal fired power stations, you gotta love the Chinese, so inventive & sensible... (with a dam fine cuisine to boot!)

Was the Chinese live monkeys and bats sold in wet markets that probably caused Covid. Apart from that … I like a sweet and sour chicken with fried rice 🤤 

I live in Australia in Canberra(Capital) our A.C.T Government has legislated that from 2035 ICE will no longer be able to be sold.There is opposition to this.

1 hour ago, Alex.S said:

Was the Chinese live monkeys and bats sold in wet markets that probably caused Covid. Apart from that … I like a sweet and sour chicken with fried rice 🤤 

That’s been disproven. Studies have found that the “Bat soup” origin theory is not possible. Turns out that they can look at the genetic material and see the “cut and paste” job that could only occur from a laboratory origin. Just like synthetic diamonds and counterfeit money, forensic experts can find the evidence.

Similarly, investigations into the companies that get the subsidies will reveal that there are many people who have connections in government that sit on the boards of the recipient companies. Could be a nephew of Sadiq is a director of one of the companies that supply the vehicles to the NHS. First step is finding the names and salaries of people involved in the transactions.

5 minutes ago, Hackney said:

...There is opposition to this.

Of course there is, you have 20 million cars in the whole country, which is just under 8 Million square km  in size.

In comparison, UK has 37 Million cars in a country under 250,000 square Km.

The whole thing is laughable...

Interesting article written by petrol head and early EV user Rowan Atkinson.

 

 

1 hour ago, Turvey said:

Interesting article written by petrol head and early EV user Rowan Atkinson.

Great article, though published 6 months ago and mentioned on this thread at the time, however, a worthy reminder...

On 11/18/2023 at 2:17 PM, Scottman said:

I believe that the scam is going to unravel as people see how the true costs of buying and charging the EV is exposed.

Looks like everyone in the US is an owner of an EV, they mostly just don't yet know it !!

I guess it's same in all of the western world 🙁

 

Not cars, obviously, but read a few items recently on "upcycling" bin lorries into EVs. Given that ICE bin lorries drive relatively short distances in a day, yet have engines running most of the time, this does seem a sensible application for EVs. Example article:

https://www.biffa.co.uk/biffa-insights/biffa-and-lunaz-sustainable-electric-lorry-partnership

 

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Not cars, obviously, but read a few items recently on "upcycling" bin lorries into EVs. Given that ICE bin lorries drive relatively short distances in a day, yet have engines running most of the time, this does seem a sensible application for EVs.

This is a perfect use of EVs, just like the old fashioned milk floats for the very same reason, relatively short distances, and a decent 12 hour charge built in to daily routine.

2 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

This is a perfect use of EVs, just like the old fashioned milk floats for the very same reason, relatively short distances, and a decent 12 hour charge built in to daily routine.

Indeed. Park and Ride buses are a similar case. As we keep saying, it's a matter of the best solution for a particular application. Unfortunately the politicians have grasped at just one solution and are trying to make it fit all circumstances.