We need to remember most new cars are not bought, they are effectively just hired on PCP, your term runs out  you don't have the balance so you just "hire" another new one.

26 minutes ago, tazzman600 said:

https://uk.motor1.com/news/692596/tiny-engine-no-petrol-diesel/

Yes battery technology is moving at a pace. Yes EV's have their place BUT they are NOT the answer but only part of it.

The link above is part of the answer and I'm personally looking forward to hydrogen introduction to vehicles. 

Absolutely, and that is the general thrust of most posters on here, several solutions not just one. 

That engine in the link does look rather tasty - AVL List get very little mention in mainstream media but I think they're quite long-established - just after WW2.

Most of the mentions I have  seen have concerned their work on bigger hydrogen engines for HGV use, and I have seen something about their work on batteries also, so very much a "several solutions" operation.

22 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

We need to remember most new cars are not bought, they are effectively just hired on PCP, your term runs out  you don't have the balance so you just "hire" another new one.

And we always need to bear in mind many (most?) people are simply not as interested in the technicalities of what they drive as we are.. As long as the monthlies stack up, it does the job and, if they're bothered about such things, projects the right image, they dont care what's under the bonnet.

TBH - i had to google Kludges, not a term i'd heard before

2 hours ago, Jimpster said:

i had to google Kludges,

So have I 🤔

perhaps what I would call something 'cobbled together'

Exactly, in an increasingly fruitless attempt to comply with ever-reducing emissions requirements, exemplified by the need to put batteries on charge every few days because cars no longer charge them properly.

While hydrogen may have a limited use in certain situations if it's burnt in IC engines they will still produce NOX, so it'll still be necessary to use techniques such as selective catalytic reduction to address that.

It amuses me the way people get so hung up on this ancient technology. You would think I'd be the same - I learned to drive on a Hillman Minx and my first car was an 850 Mini - but I can see the beautiful simplicity of a quiet electric drive train compared with the agricultural complexity of an IC engine, clutch and gearbox (especially an auto gearbox). Okay, the sound of a Merlin engine, or better still 4 Merlin engines, can stil raise the hairs on the back of my neck but I have absolutely no nostalgic attraction to ordinary car engines, especially modern ones with all their built-in problems. Sorry @tazzman600but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.

That's no problem Mike. That's what makes people people and not robots. 

So what about NOX emissions. They will never end. They are a friend of car tuners worldwide. 

Far too many blinkered morons in this world fighting for so called clean air. Just how many of them don't produce smelly farts? Just about all of them. Self obsessed with nothing better to do. This paragraph is general and not pointed at any Individual. 

I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been blocked by the powers that be.

Just heard an interesting point on the radio. With floods being so prevalent on the news, on driving through water in a petrol car, you just keep the revs up, drive slowly, and try not to create a wave.

What do you do with a battery car, do you just get electrocuted?

 

4 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Just heard an interesting point on the radio. With floods being so prevalent on the news, on driving through water in a petrol car, you just keep the revs up, drive slowly, and try not to create a wave.

What do you do with a battery car, do you just get electrocuted?

 

Wont matter if Nostradamus was right

An EV is probably better in flooded roads, no need for a snorkel for starters. 😁

https://www.electrifying.com/blog/knowledge-hub/electric-cars-and-floods-everything-you-need-to-know

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Just heard an interesting point on the radio. With floods being so prevalent on the news, on driving through water in a petrol car, you just keep the revs up, drive slowly, and try not to create a wave.

What do you do with a battery car, do you just get electrocuted?

 

I haven't been electrocuted so far and I've been in deep water last week when we had all the rain in UK. 

The famous rufford ford. Some drivers who didn't get electrocuted. Then an idiot belting through. These always one. 🤣🤣

Another plus is wet brakes, got regen so wet brakes not such an issue when going through water. 

1 hour ago, iantt said:

The famous rufford ford. Some drivers who didn't get electrocuted. Then an idiot belting through. These always one. 🤣🤣

Gosh, the most significant thing about that video for me is the no.of Teslas in the area! I see one or two a week maybe, but then I live in a poor area 🤣

Perhaps you don't get out much as well. 

I see more every day I drive to work and back. 

Small numbers still but the growth started kicking in around 2020. Rac figures so fairly reliable I guess

Yes, I keep seeing more and more, including lots of Teslas. Don't think I live in a particularly affluent area, but as I think I've mentioned before, there do seem to be a lot of company car drivers around (mostly leased by the look of the numberplates). Previously they might have had a 3 Series, C-Class or A4, now it's i4s, Audi e-trons, Teslas, Polestars. Unsurprising given the tax benefits, I'm pretty sure if I was still in the golden wheels club I'd be in one myself for business use, and have a bike (or something else interesting) for the weekend**, as I used to do anyway.

What I'm not seeing is much evidence of private motorists (apart from Ian of course) making the move, though:

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/big-drop-in-new-electric-car-sales-to-private-buyers-aJrQL4D3105T

 

** Digressing slightly, as a kid I used to be intrigued when I heard the barber mutter to the older customers "something for the weekend, sir?" .

Tesla's are really easy to spot and there are loads around here, but some of the other EV are harder to make out ( Corsa for example) I'm now starting to see a number of MG's too ( new one in my street) Also in our road there a chap with a wall charger, not sure if he has a Volvo or a Mitsubishi PHEV, there's a Polestar always parked in the backs, with absolutely nowhere to charge at home, so I guess it's done at work, and of course someone has a Tesla, which he's had for several years now.

 

I forgot to add the Porsche Taycan in the village.

When I'm walking the dog around our housing estate I see more each month. Probably around 30 or so on drives. I'm guessing by the cars and the folk who drive them I'm think 2/3rds are fleet/company cars . Got Jag ipace and Renault Zoe and my Kona on our short cul de sac, then Kia Nero, BMW suv ,VW golf , more Tesla's,( 3 on 1 drive so they musk fans then) a few mg4's . Our town not exactly affluent either. But we have had influx of commuters arrive in new housing estates. Where from, no idea. Theres lots on on our bypass when I go and come back from work. 

The business news the past couple of days has been flooded with reports that two of the three long established automakers have made abrupt changes to their plans for battery electric vehicles.

Ford has called an immediate halt to the construction of an immense project to construct a battery plant near me in south central Michigan. 
they have also said that they are changing their production goals and product development focus.

GM has announced that it will delay the production of the Silverado EV and focus on lowering the costs and price of their current EV line.

GM also has released a statement in tandem with American Honda that they are dissolving a joint development project for EV’s.

Both GM and Ford are losing billions of dollars. And the situation is so dire that the loss per unit is actually increasing by the day.

the average time a ford Lightning sits on the sales lot has been above sixty days. In some area’s there are Lightning units that have been sitting since May! The dealers will not have this sort of situation continue for much longer. I suspect that they have informed Ford that they will be refusing the delivery of any more Electric vehicles for stock on the advice of their legal and financial council. 
Much of the incentive to purchase an EV taxpayer money. Yet the people who pay the taxes are either not interested in an EV or they can’t afford one even with the tax credits. The federal government has taken the unprecedented step of making the tax credit for buying an EV a point of purchase incentive! All to no effect.

 I think that sanity is going to have a comeback.

I'm interested to see what will happen here in the UK when the ZEV mandate kicks in from 1 January. It will be an interesting balancing act for manufacturers - do they possibly cut EV prices to ensure 22% of sales are EVs as required, or stump up the fines if they don't?

The scheme does permit buying "credits" from manufacturers with a high proportion of EV sales, so no doubt much "horse trading" will go on.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-electric-vehicles/zev-mandate

 

2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

do they possibly cut EV prices to ensure 22% of sales are EVs as required, or

.... or increase the price of ICE vehicles by 50% 🤣

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

.... or increase the price of ICE vehicles by 50% 🤣

Lol, there is that. But if people are put off buying EVs by the price, I doubt they'd be willing or able to pay the same (or more) for ICE, either. So they might not sell any cars at all, so good news for Greta, polar bears and dolphins, then!😀

mmm... anyone on for a wager that the whole house of cards is severely wobbling, and just waiting for one single worldwide government to shout out, "Hey look! The emperor has no clothes..."  🤣

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

mmm... anyone on for a wager that the whole house of cards is severely wobbling, and just waiting for one single worldwide government to shout out, "Hey look! The emperor has no clothes..." 

I didn't think that we would still be around in person to say "I told you so" but every day it's looking more likely we will get the chance to shout it from the roof tops !! but ...... we might have to ask 'Just Stop Oil' to get off the roof first 🤣

I believe that much of the so called “green new deal “ here in America is collapsing a bit more each day. I have seen no infrastructure upgrades to the electrical grid. In fact, the public utilities are still arguing with each other regarding what part of the grid is in greater need of upgrades! 
on top of the inaction, they are more enthusiastic about shutting down older coal fired and nuclear power plants,because they are actually shutting down a good percentage of that with nothing to replace it that is equivalent or greater! 
I don’t believe that it will matter if they build out the charging station infrastructure for EV’s or not. Because the system won’t be capable of generating the power that the high speed chargers will require. It’s all just an insane bluff of the consumer to no good effect.

8 hours ago, Scottman said:

... they are more enthusiastic about shutting down older coal fired and nuclear power plants,because they are actually shutting down a good percentage of that with nothing to replace it that is equivalent or greater! bluff of the consumer to no good effect.

Northern Ireland closed down it's only coal fired power station a couple of weeks ago, we've already had power outages. These green nutters are really getting on my t*ts...

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/sam-mcbride/as-northern-ireland-shuts-its-last-coal-fired-power-station-dont-be-shocked-if-the-lights-go-out-in-the-republic-too/a667704872.html