1 hour ago, Alex.S said:

I think  wildfires and floods , like we’ve never seen before (not on this scale ) Not to forget the ice caps melting. All as predicted, is proof enough. 

It may or may not indicate a change in the climate, but.....

Don't get me wrong, climate change will cost us all money and we should do what we can to limit it so long as its proportionate, e.g. we have solar panels on our roof, installed, BTW, before it was a good investment......

But :

1 - There is no guarantee that changing our lives forever, at massive cost, will prevent it anyway. What we do is almost irrelevant whilst China, India and many other countries aren't interested. And who can blame them, if I were a poor country I would not be countenancing keeping my population in poverty just so we could try and head off climate change, and there is no way this country should to be paying them the many Trillions necessary to subsidise them to do so. That would never fly if if put to a referendum in this country, no way.

2 - I do not believe the effect on the world, certainly on humans, will be as bad as is being suggested. Historically the climate has been both far hotter and also far colder than it is now. Humans are the most adaptable creatures ever to have walked the earth.

3 - Mitigating climate change will be much cheaper than trying (very possibly unsuccessfully) to prevent it, certainly in this country.

5 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Speaking as one of the 'elderly' (!), sadly I find the youth often indulge in conspiracy theories, especially when they increasingly and misguidedly ban free speech on university campuses! Indulging in modern phenomena of cancel culture.

My da and his pals don’t believe in global warming at all. They can’t seem to make the connection between heavier rain than usual and global warming. My nephew in southern CA has filmed on his phone driving through a freeway with wildfires on both sides, with a full tank. Them and likes of the Greek islands… all f…..ed sooner rather than later. Not a conspiracy imo but definitely a theory. 

Flooding is our biggest threat. A lot of people can’t insure their property due to flooding risk. Crap state of affairs. We'll be building new towns on higher ground the way it’s going. About solar panels, I think now all new builds have to have them. Up here anyway. Not that the big yellow thing makes an appearance much. 

It’s funny how the alarmist rabble scream about flooding and wildfires. But they totally forgot that they were the ones that decided not to fight Forrest fires because it interferes with the natural environment and they also decided that the brush and vegetation didn’t need to be cleared from under high voltage electrical power lines as it has been for decades. So in California they now have massive wildfires that wipeout huge areas and billions of dollars of property, because they want it to be “natural “.
It also has become fashionably green to not improve, upgrade or build any new water reservoir systems. So there’s no way to capture mountain rain runoff that could cut down on drought conditions that are known to occur. The greens prefer to see the fresh water just wash down to the salt water ocean! It’s pure insanity.

 

11 hours ago, Alex.S said:

I remember the acid rain theory. We were taught that England was sinking into the sea and Scotland was rising! lol

 

It's factual and called isostatic rebound, GPS data over the last 30 years puts it around a 1mm or 2mm a year. Yes, it is very slow but still happening.

There was a hole in the ozone layer, and it would have caused a huge problem if it got bigger, but the international ban on chlorofluorocarbons resulted a 20 percent decrease in ozone depletion during the winter months from 2005 (when NASA started to take measurements) to 2018 .

That really is the point, we saw a climate problem, the world got together and acted to do something about it.

27 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

It's factual and called isostatic rebound, GPS data over the last 30 years puts it around a 1mm or 2mm a year. Yes, it is very slow but still happening.

There was a hole in the ozone layer, and it would have caused a

That really is the point, we saw a climate problem, the world got together and acted to do something about it.

Maybe illustrates the current futility of climate change action as 'the world' excluding China and India has no mission of doing anything about it!

China is actively building coal fired power plants. They have absolutely no intention of doing anything that would slow down or make cleaner their efforts to rapidly industrialize their economy.

13 hours ago, Alex.S said:

Flooding is our biggest threat. A lot of people can’t insure their property due to flooding risk. Crap state of affairs. We'll be building new towns on higher ground the way it’s going. About solar panels, I think now all new builds have to have them. Up here anyway. Not that the big yellow thing makes an appearance much. 

It is, but it would be cheaper to spend Billions on flood defences than Trillions on trying to stop something which we may not be able to stop and which is not going to be catastrophic for this country anyway.

No, for me pragmatic environmentalism is the more sensible approach. You do what you can within reason.

Nuclear power : yes
Planting more trees : yes
Tidal power (incl the Severn barrage) :  yes
More renewables (provided they are reliable and a reasonable price) : yes
Carbon capture (provided it's not too expensive) : yes

Banning all petrol and diesel cars : no
Making gas and elec very expensive to reduce usage : no
Banning (or severely restricting) flying : no
Forcing people to radically alter their lives against their will (and without them directly voting for it) : definitely not

13 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Speaking as one of the 'elderly' (!), sadly I find the youth often indulge in conspiracy theories, especially when they increasingly and misguidedly ban free speech on university campuses! Indulging in modern phenomena of cancel culture.

Agreed they shout for free speech and liberty but then silence what doesn't fit with their agenda

 

It's not as simple as the naysayers like to shout china burns coal

China building coal power station - yes

China produces more solar electric than the rest of the world combined

China has also made huge strides in wind capacity: its combined onshore and offshore capacity now surpasses 310GW, double its 2017 level and roughly equivalent to the next top seven countries combined

China’s renewable energy production is 3 times the second leading country, the USA

 

Don't forget the UK conservative government have effectively banned onshore windfarms, want to open a new coal mine and actively encourage more oil drilling.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mark-UK said:

Don't forget the UK conservative government have effectively banned onshore windfarms, want to open a new coal mine and actively encourage more oil drilling.

We need a certain amount of coal in this country, not only for industry but also for stuff like steam engines. There was that farce recently where some virtue signalling council in Wales shut down one of the last pits in the UK still producing steam coal. So that now has to be imported, at considerably higher cost, monetary as well as CO2 wise.

1 hour ago, Mark-UK said:

 

It's not as simple as the naysayers like to shout china burns coal

China building coal power station - yes

China produces more solar electric than the rest of the world combined

China has also made huge strides in wind capacity: its combined onshore and offshore capacity now surpasses 310GW, double its 2017 level and roughly equivalent to the next top seven countries combined

China’s renewable energy production is 3 times the second leading country, the USA

 

Don't forget the UK conservative government have effectively banned onshore windfarms, want to open a new coal mine and actively encourage more oil drilling.

 

 

I appreciate the sentiment of what you say, but it doesn't detract from the fact that China has over 1100 coal powered stations (and building more every year to cope with their economic growth), I believe the UK now has 2 with Kilroot in NI closing just weeks ago.

All the virtue signalling the UK now has on solar, and wind, are now all built for us by the Chinese using coal, they're pretty much laughing at us!

It's an unpopular view, but I'm a big fan of coal & oil. I'm not rich, I can't afford to spend non existent personal capital of ripping out my oil central heating. Also, in UK mainland, only 4% of homes use 'oil' directly to heat their heating. In NI it's 73% The reason is very simple, during 30 years of 'troubles', there was no investment whatsoever in infrastructure. So we remained with what was existing.

7 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Chinese using coal, they're pretty much laughing at us!

I would imagine they're rolling the floor and holding their sides laughing 🙁

In only a few years time the whole world will be buying all their energy direct from China, and why not ? After all we buy 99% of everything else from them.

When it comes to the Chinese government and any economic data, take it with a grain of salt. Or, more appropriately a block of salt!

all of their data sets are grossly incorrect. From GDP to population to public health and their stock and real estate markets. All of it is a house of cards with the roof on fire.

The Chinese don’t have any intention of having any genuine transparency regarding their business activities. I must add that I have some first hand experience with working under contract for a Chinese automotive development firm in Michigan for just over a year. It was an eye opening revelation to see the nuts and bolts level of project management and financial controls. Not to mention in any particular detail the cultural difference’s.

suffice it to say that if the western governments would simply exclude China from access to their respective markets, I firmly believe that they would fall apart as they lack much internal discipline.

1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

We need a certain amount of coal in this country, not only for industry but also for stuff like steam engines. There was that farce recently where some virtue signalling council in Wales shut down one of the last pits in the UK still producing steam coal. So that now has to be imported, at considerably higher cost, monetary as well as CO2 wise.

Yes, we do a very small amount of coal for heritage steam engines, but we don't need a new deep coal mine in Cumbria producing poor quality coal with no customers.

Personally, I don't think the government is actually interested in the coal from Cumbria, but they'd love a deep hole to shove all the nuclear waste from neighbouring Sellafield in to. 😉

2 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

...but they'd love a deep hole to shove all the nuclear waste from neighbouring Sellafield in to. 😉

Now, didn't China offer to dispose of nuclear waste for us? LOL

 

Australia has almost completely de Indusrialized themselves over the past two decades. Unless they outlaw cooking food, private vehicles and home HVAC, I cannot conceive of any more measures that they could implement that would have any effect!

 

2 hours ago, Scottman said:

I cannot conceive of any more measures that they could implement that would have any effect!

Erase the entire population with either a mystery virus or a dysfunctional vaccine ?

Or am I just being a bit batty 🤣

I firmly believe that the “multiple booster shots” mentality of the government is a not so subtle effort to increase the mortality rates. Prior to the pandemic there was no discussion of six month booster shots for a flu like virus. I doesn’t matter what continent you are on anymore, the globalist bunch has their fingerprints all over our health care systems and Pharmaceutical industries. I don’t have a shred of trust in any of the ***** after I witnessed what the shots did to close friends who are no longer alive.

I really have no idea who is going to be able to afford a $800 to $1,000 a month payment on a new EV? Our income has not increased here in the States. Thanks to the orgy of spending our government is undertaking, our spending power is dropping by double digit rates!

28 minutes ago, Scottman said:

...our spending power is dropping by double digit rates!

I'm curious Scott, Trump runs on a ticket of MAGA, (Make America Great Again). Is there any consensus of when America was last, 'great'?

3 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I'm curious Scott, Trump runs on a ticket of MAGA, (Make America Great Again). Is there any consensus of when America was last, 'great'?

😀

MAGA is not a political party. It’s more like a set of guiding principles for the management and continuing survival of the nation State. 
I must preface my remarks by saying that my familiarity with Donald Trump was as a New York Realestate developer who had a penchant or hobby of seeking publicity through several wildly different venues of the entertainment industry. I never considered him to be someone who would have any interest in a position in government.

My personal impression of the man prior to 2015 was that he probably leaned to the liberal side of political spectrum because his business interests are focused in a region that is as liberal dominated as any in the entire country. New York City is one of the toughest places to do business in America, if not the world.

When he rode down the escalator and announced his candidacy for President, I went online and did a bit of research on the man. The Trump organization is not exceptionally multi National. There’s some overseas activity, the bulk is in the States on the east coast. He is not a drinker of alcohol, not even a drop. He has been married several times and had children with every one of them. He also has maintained cordial relationships with his ex wives, and has been an active part of raising his children.

Trump actually ran his businesses and has a ground level working knowledge of the real estate development process. He has dealt with the trade unions across the spectrum of what is required to create one of those buildings that is the skyline of New York. Trump got his political skills from dealing with some of the most powerful people in New York politics and also in organized crime. Because Unions are the realm of organized crime.

Trump enjoyed a reputation for being tough to deal with and was best not to mess with him. At the same time, his company has one of the lowest employee turnover rates of any company of the kind in the city.

Trump values his employees. When he walked onto job sites, he approached the tradesmen and the foremen to talk with them. Because he understood that he needed them as much as they needed his money.

Do I think Trump is a Republican or something like a Conservative? No.

 I think that he is a cunningly sharp rationalist with the instincts of shark. I believe that he has decided that the nation has been ripped off and sold out by the political elites in both parties. He will probably be the Republican candidate for the Presidency. But, many Republicans do not want him upsetting the power structure as it has been constructed.

All of my UK cousin’s should plan to pop some corn and watch the election returns next November! If Trump is not derailed or imprisoned by the government’s internal opposition, or possibly the dead rise up from their graves in the greatest vote fraud turnout effort in history, you are guaranteed to have a front row seat to one of the most tumultuous elections in American history. 
I don’t believe that the current resident of the White House is going to make it through the next year. He is a cabbage and a liability for the Democrats. I am sure that there are at least two staircases in the White House that have already been deemed the perfect spot to take a spill or two or however many is required to retire the old fraudster.

Biden only has to worry about if his own party will chuck him.

Trump can fully expect that both parties are not his friends.

sorry if I went long, but this situation is not going to be a normal thing.

 

11 minutes ago, Scottman said:

...sorry if I went long, but this situation is not going to be a normal thing.

So, MAGA, has the implication that if it's 'again', it was great once, so by your answer, I'm assuming you don't know either LOL

(I emailed the Trump campaign years ago the same question, I never got a response...)

In no particular order, the MAGA agenda.

1/ Repatriation of offshored American owned industry 

2/Secure the borders

3/Redefine the rules for immigration and asylum 

4/Reduced involvement with countries that are not strategic trading partners 

5/ Streamline federal regulatons

6/ Reduction in federal spending 

7/ rationalization of federal government agencies 

8/ Return an undetermined amount of federal land to their respective States

9/Reduce top income tax rate

10/ Reform the State department and return diplomacy to a position that doesn’t require cargo planes filled with money ( I mean that literally!) be deployed to resolve international issues

there are more items on the agenda, that is just the more high profile issues. I have no expectations of even half of these things being addressed.

This also is not my personal wish list, just a recitation of what I see.