Energy chat, the future of car propulsion

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, Jimpster said:

You get free water ???????

 

Of course we do! A legacy of the troubles, like being left inside the EU by accident LOL It's a very political issue here, but if they really wanted, all they'd need to do is threaten the eejits in Stormont to get back to work immediately, or under Direct Rule, they'll introduce water charging.

Yes, I know this is way off topic now, sorry...

[Eric Bloodaxe]

14 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Yes, I know this is way off topic now, sorry...

Lol, to get back there then, I found these few articles interesting recently:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-21-misleading-myths-about-electric-vehicles/

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-much-co2-emitted-manufacturing-batteries

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

Don't know if @Scottman could comment on the impartiality (or otherwise) of the MIT site?

PS: from what I've seen about new EU visa rules you'll find that extra passport very handy!😀

 

[StephenFord]

8 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

PS: from what I've seen about new EU visa rules you'll find that extra passport very handy!😀

I know, no queuing at airports. It's also widely reported that many staunch unionists now have 'Irish' passports,  it may not match their ideology, but no one likes a queue 🤣

[Scottman]

Yes, I can comment! MIT has, so far, been blissfully free of much political Rah Rah or Pooh Pooh at the research and development levels. 
This institution is still very focused on materials and process for battery chemistry and design. I have had an opportunity to see a couple of MIT grads going about their business inside American Honda a few years back. Brilliant men. Not concerned about politics but squarely focused on the issues of longevity and charging time along with the associated issues with temperature control systems and monitoring of battery conditions.

The situation may have changed in the last few years. But, my general impression of the people who have an MIT degree is that they possess a working knowledge at a granular level of very complex systems and processes. Also, some of them have an unbelievable tolerance for spicy foods. Probably not really relevant, but I was impressed that his mouth was not on fire.

[mjt]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:14 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Lol, to get back there then, I found these few articles interesting recently:

This one'll make your brain hurt. I love this stuff even though I can't understand it.

[iantt]

2 hours ago, mjt said:

This one'll make your brain hurt. I love this stuff even though I can't understand it.

That went straight over my head. Well the first few lines them I gave up. Watched  a guy talking about liquid metal batteries. That was mind blowing to understand, and no I didn't really understand afterwards

 

 

[iantt]

3 hours ago, mjt said:

This one'll make your brain hurt. I love this stuff even though I can't understand it.

Give this one a try. 

https://ambri.com/

[mjt]

12 hours ago, iantt said:

Give this one a try. 

https://ambri.com/

That doesn't really say anything about the technology they're using but I don't think it's literally liquid metal. It probably just means they're wet batteries with metal electrodes, just like lead-acid batteries.

Edit: seems I was wrong : https://spectrum.ieee.org/liquid-metal-battery

[mjt]

Here's a novel one: https://spectrum.ieee.org/flow-battery-2666672335

[Eric Bloodaxe]

So, the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV mandate) kicked in today.

Hope you'll all be helping Ford achieve their 22% ZEV sales quota by rushing down to your dealer and placing your order for a Mustang Mach E. (I was going to say Explorer but I see they haven't got a launch date yet!😀).

My wife came back from the supermarket yesterday with a copy of the Observer which she'd bought "for a change" (she was suitably aghast when I pointed out it was the weekend version of the Guardian!)

Spotted an interesting comment in there, though. The writer highlighted the fact that western governments are subsidising (to various degrees) the purchase of EVs irrespective of origin, while the Chinese government were subsidising their production. So Europe is effectively penalizing its own car manufacturers while Incentivising consumers to buy subsidised Chinese EVs, which the writer predicted "wouldn't end well"!

[unofix]

6 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

while Incentivising consumers to buy subsidised Chinese EVs,

That sounds about right for Western governments 🙄

[StephenFord]

So, along with the subsidised wine lake, and subsidised cheese mountain, will we be having a subsidised EV scrap heap??

[unofix]

12 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

EV scrap heap

Potential for a new TV series ? 🤣

[StephenFord]

7 minutes ago, unofix said:

Potential for a new TV series ? 🤣

You could race them, and call it, 'The Chase'.... oh, wait a minute 😁

[Scottman]

Democrat run states like Illinois are now mandating that new homes shall be built with EV charging. So, the Federal government is subsiding the purchase of the cars and the states are adding the cost of the charging equipment onto the cost of homes. They still aren’t doing anything to improve or even just stabilize the reliability of the electrical infrastructure. I guess it’s the thought that counts!

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

 

1 hour ago, Scottman said:

Democrat run states like Illinois are now mandating that new homes shall be built with EV charging.

It baffles me why over here, new  homes are still being built with gas boilers when stated policy is to phase them out and ban them on new builds from 2025. Similarly it is rare to see solar panels on new builds when you would think during during construction is the best time to install them.

I did spot a small development recently where EV charging was installed in each property, though.

[Scottman]

Yes. It seems like the only consistent thing among all of the governments is that they are all very inconsistent!

 I believe that the various special interest groups are the ones who are driving that. It’s all about getting the grants and tax incentives over here. There is an entire sub culture of entrepreneurship that has been focused on getting the money through creating a startup corporation and making a huge public relations splash by announcing that they are on the cusp of releasing their new proprietary products and then milking it until they collapse with nothing to show for their efforts. One recent such example near me was A123 systems. They went bankrupt after getting around 148 million dollars in grants and loan guarantees. The other three in Michigan were Azure Dynamics, United Solar and Evergreen Solar. Those companies received around 874 million dollars in tax credits, outright loans, loan guarantees, GRANTS! And other financial incentives. Yet they have all gone bust. Bidens current secretary of energy, Jennifer Granholm was the Governor during that utter disaster.

I could accuse her of ignorance, but I would have to then admit that I thought she might be educable. She is simply not a thinking person. She has proven that on multiple occasions.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I had a parcel delivered yesterday by DPD (whose local depot is about 4 miles away) using an electric van. 

By contrast, later I spotted the local guy who does the "last half mile" deliveries for various other carriers, leaving his ancient diesel Galaxy running while making drop after drop all the way through the village.

An illustration of an appropriate use for an EV, I thought.

[unofix]

7 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

leaving his ancient diesel Galaxy running while making drop after drop

Sounds like a problem with the Stop/Start 🤔 Has anyone here had issues with this ? 🤣

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I see the spokesperson for the SMMT was bewailing the introduction of the ZEV mandate and arguing that Government should provide more incentives for EV buyers.

This is seeming increasingly nuts to me. Why should the manufacturers be penalised for not selling something if the customers don't want it? Why should taxpayers who possibly don't even drive subsidise EV buyers?

On another point, the mandate permits say, Land Rover, to sell (or buy credits for) 22% EVs but the rest of their sales could be 3 tonne 5 litre behemoths. Meanwhile someone like Toyota, who largely sell FHEVs, will be penalised even though their overall carbon footprint is quite probably much lower. 

 

[StephenFord]

12 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

This is seeming increasingly nuts to me. Why should the manufacturers be penalised for not selling something if the customers don't want it?

This is an argument that I have used right from the start. If EVs are that great, let the market decide on their viability. Shouldn't be up to government to mandate sales. How would supermarkets feel if government imposed additional taxes on them because their %age sales of vegetables didn't stack up against the sale of pre packed meals??

Definitive proof that we are being ruled by morons...

[Eric Bloodaxe]

4 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

How would supermarkets feel if government imposed additional taxes on them because their %age sales of vegetables didn't stack up against the sale of pre packed meals??

Lol, this is precisely how I explained the ZEV mandate to my other half. She thinks it's nuts, too!😀 

Where something is clearly the best solution, people/businesses will go for it and we have highlighted several very good EV applications (e.g. park and ride buses, refuse vehicles, local delivery vehicles, etc) in this thread.

[Scottman]

3 hours ago, unofix said:

Sounds like a problem with the Stop/Start 🤔 Has anyone here had issues with this ? 🤣

Most of the early “stop/start systems were powered by dedicated lead acid battery. When the LA battery fails the feature becomes inoperable.

The effects of aging on the electrical system wiring harness is also a factor as ground connections become corroded. A problem that all of us who have mk7 and mk7.5 Fiesta have begun to experience.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I see BT are converting redundant** relay boxes into EV chargers, which could add up to 60,000 charging points to the network

They claim that they have carried out research which showed that 1 in 3 drivers said they would have already converted to EV if there were no charging concerns. I find that one a bit hard to believe - it seems to be the initial cost that I hear about most often. From what I've seen, the electric Puma, for instance, will be priced from around £35k - about £10k more than ICE versions.

(.**Because of the switch to fibre and VOIP which doesn't seem to be quite as wonderful as they would have us believe.)

 

 

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

19 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Irony being, that if another one was started now, it would gain much more traction as the public's awareness of the futility of EVs is much more widespread. The cost of vehicles, the mandated imposed taxation to enforce sales, the lack of infrastructure, the expense of insurance, the difficulty of putting out a 'simple' fire, the way that embracing other forms of innovation in propulsion has been suppressed, etc etc...

(Just moving back to the appropriate thread before we get a slap on the wrist!)

It's tempting to have another go. However, given that Ford and Volvo were among the many companies who signed a petition in favour of the EU ban, the turkeys have already voted for Xmas!😀

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-government-and-legislation/ford-and-volvo-back-european-ban-new-ice-cars-2035