Vaguely on topic but half the number of wheels, last night I watched the latest episode of "The Motorbike Show" which I'd recorded.

It featured a new electric motorcycle (Arc Vector), which as far as I could make out, had similar claimed performance to a half-decent normal sports bike, but weighs 230kg (about a third heavier).

It had a claimed range of approx 200 miles and charge time of around 40 minutes, which doesn't sound too bad as I used to burn through a tank of gas on a Sunday morning ride, and you need to stop for a while after that for a pee, a cuppa and a bacon sarnie anyway

Then I heard the price - from £90k!  This thing was high tech, carbon fibre monocoque frame, blah blah, and there are cheaper e-motorbikes on the market, but stil!

Wow!! A bargain. 🤣🤣. Won't sell my vfr800vtec just yet,elec car is my electric fix for now. 

I was wondering if I'd misheard the price - couldn't find a mention on Arc's website:

https://www.arcvehicle.com/

but then I saw confirmation here:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/arc/vector-2023-review

 

To be fair, that's no ordinary production bike . Limited production bikes can get silly price tags even with a petrol engine. And 230kg isn't that much more than my vfr at 217kg

3 hours ago, iantt said:

And 230kg isn't that much more than my vfr at 217kg

Yes, that's true. I had a VFR 750 back in the 90s which was about 210kg iirc.

This thing is (I think) supposed to be a sports bike though. Something like a Yamaha R1 is about 200kg including a full tank (17 litres or so) but around 180kg "dry". An e-bike will always weigh the same of course, whether the battery is "full" or not. That Yamaha is 200hp, though, the Arc only claims 117.

But yes, you're right, there are certainly some silly priced "normal" bikes around, so I guess it's just another rich man's toy really. As ever, you pays yer money.......   

Was thrilled when our new PM announced he would not be attending COP 27 in Egypt, only to learn today that he has now been pressured to carry out a U turn & go. I wonder why COPs 1 to 26 never worked? Still, I'm sure they'll all enjoy running around in their fleet of battery cars, which will all be charged up with the aid of diesel generators. There is so much wrong with this, difficult to know where to start...

On 11/2/2022 at 7:23 PM, StephenFord said:

There is so much wrong with this, difficult to know where to start...

Yes I thought about a post on this, and then thought I just don't have the time to type up something the size of the Magna Carta ! 😧

With COP27 being in the news, a lovely little factoid has been released.

China in the last 8 years alone has released more CO2, than the UK has since time began!

Just Stop Oil and their ilk should target their enemies better than what they do currently...

Historically, protesting in China has not gone down well.

There's also a question of scale in those statistics.  China is about 40 times larger than the UK.  So 8 years for them is about 120 years for us!

As has been covered earlier in this thread, the rest of the world needs to stop funding their dirty power by importing cheap Chinese crap.

6 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

...So 8 years for them is about 120 years for us!

Aahhh, the year of 'the dog' LOL

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

the rest of the world needs to stop funding their dirty power by importing cheap Chinese crap.

In a car context, I've seen quite a lot recently about the vfm aspects of MG electric cars which seem to fare very well in comparison to the likes of VWs ID3.

You have to wonder** to what degree this is a reflection of economies/efficiency in the manufacturing and logistics chain, or an example of "predatory" pricing, i.e. undercut the competition until it ceases to exist.

(** Or perhaps you don't - I'm pretty sure it is predatory.)

On 10/29/2022 at 2:35 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

That Yamaha is 200hp, though, the Arc only claims 117.

But as with 140BHP or 163 BHP 2 litre diesels, that 200 is only the MAX power output (probably at 12,000+ rpm).   I think that it's torque which determines acceleration, so with a flat torque curve the 117 BHP motor is likely to match the Yamaha's performance.

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I'm pretty sure it is predatory

Maybe.... or maybe it's just a reflection of vastly lower labour costs, if their workers are only being paid 3 grains of rice per hour.

My guess is that they are making a good profit selling an MG for £25k and are not selling at a loss.  But without auditing the company's accounts (and I can't find them online 😁) I have no evidence for my view at all!

3 minutes ago, alanfp said:

if their workers are only being paid 3 grains of rice per hour

Ah !!!!

So they have had an increase this year 🤣

Not a level playing field tariff-wise either:

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/eu-should-impose-higher-tariffs-chinese-automakers-carlos-tavares-says

Just saw this video & watched with great interest. @unofixthere is a SOC issue in the 1st couple of minutes for your delectation LOL To be honest, there isn't an issue that hasn't already been discussed here, but good to see them all in one video...

 

56 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Just saw this video & watched with great interest. @unofixthere is a SOC issue in the 1st couple of minutes for your delectation LOL To be honest, there isn't an issue that hasn't already been discussed here, but good to see them all in one video...

 

Saw that a few days ago . He hasn't got a clue about range and clearing range history has on  range. Nothing. 

58 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Just saw this video & watched with great interest. @unofixthere is a SOC issue in the 1st couple of minutes for your delectation LOL To be honest, there isn't an issue that hasn't already been discussed here, but good to see them all in one video...

 

Saw that a few days ago . He hasn't got a clue about range and clearing range history has on  range. Nothing. 

Perhaps, as a new EV user, you could elaborate on that for those of us who still don't understand it, Ian.

Same as petrol range...if you clear the MPG history, future range won't be calculated accurately.  

14 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Same as petrol range...if you clear the MPG history, future range won't be calculated accurately.  

Exactly. Clearing the history on an EV is no different. It resets to the claimed wltp range or there abouts. . The mache- e and transit do that. I reset a transit the other day and before showed 211miles for some odd reason. Reset and went back to 156miles. 

My hyundai doesn't reset the range , that's all on previous driving regardless of resetting any trip or ev consumption data.

Well he brought up a few points that I think most of us are all well aware of. The home charging for many well work but dependent on how many EV's need charged at that address and the big problem that he kind of just touched on is what can your home and local infrastructure support.

My own house is a 3 bed detached built around 1990 on a modern style housing estate of around 120 houses. The incoming supply is provided on 16mm tails and is fused at 60Amp. Realistically the maximum I could expect to draw from the supply would be 25A for charging. Living on my own and with only one car that would probably work. How it would work for families with more cars and how it will work when every house on the estate has at least 1 EV and probably 2, I just can't see. The electricity supply network has no where near enough spare capacity to deliver the extra power that is going to be needed .

 

We're still getting stuck on the idea of replacing every ICE car with an EV.  That was never the intention.  The idea is to reduce private transport overall, and for those that still need a car, then EV is the best option for the current intermediate period until a better solution is more realistically feasible.  Trouble is, most people are lazy, and as we've seen with things like congestion charge, would still rather pay the money and sit in traffic (complaining about the traffic they're creating!) than use public transport.

There'll be all sorts of excuses thrown about to 'justify' why everyone thinks they need their own car.  But with so many people alive nowadays, and a finite amount of road in built up areas, it's just not a sustainable way to continue.  We all know it's less convenient to use public transport or limit each household to one car, we all know it requires a massive societal change.  But we also know that you can't just live on convenience food every day either...effort regularly has to be put into healthier food options.

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

There'll be all sorts of excuses thrown about to 'justify' why everyone thinks they need their own car. 

Civilisation evolved, from people walking, riding-horses, cycling, public transport to owning cars. Now they want us to go backwards - public transport, cycle or walk.

Why? So, the rich can still use cars and all the roads are nice and clear for them

B*ll*cks to that, civilisation must keep going forward never backwards, that's just madness

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Carl123 said:

Civilisation evolved, from people walking, riding-horses, cycling, public transport to owning cars. Now they want us to go backwards - public transport, cycle or walk.

Why? So, the rich can still use cars and all the roads are nice and clear for them

B*ll*cks to that, civilisation must keep going forward never backwards, that's just madness

Interested to hear what you'd consider 'forward' from our current situation?  Even more private cars clogging up the same limited road space as the population continues to increase?

The only alternative to reducing vehicle numbers is to start bumping people off instead...