I've now seen that I could afford a brand new Dacia Duster Prestige...  Prestige is the only one to come with climate and comes with unnecessary stuff like a parking camera...but no auto wipers or dimming mirror!?  Who designs these specs?  

Auto wipers are a definite deal breaker for me so they're out.

The Corrolla actually looks pretty good though...wasn't something I'd even considered.  Excel spec would cost too much and again, 18" alloys (arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!) but the Icon Tech appears to come with the spec I need?  5 year warranty too.  Costs roughly £10k more than my budget, so what would be the best sort of payment plan if I was to go for something like that?  Ideally I need to get rid of as much as possible upfront and pay a smaller monthly installment...  I'm getting confused by all the different schemes though.  

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I've now seen that I could afford a brand new Dacia Duster Prestige... 

 

James May would be so proud if you bought one! 😄

6 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

James May would be so proud if you bought one! 😄

He likes the Sandero!!    Similar size to the Focus but ride comfort reviews online suggest they're pretty bad...and if other people think they're bad, my guts have no chance!  

How much do you have a month and do you do many miles?

https://www.firstvehicleleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/toyota/corolla/hatchback-2.0-vvt-i-hybrid-icon-tech-5dr-cvt

I've been playing with the figures on this.  I pay 300 a month for the Focus on pcp and it ties me to Ford.  I'm going to let the pcp run out and then get some choice.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

How much do you have a month and do you do many miles?

https://www.firstvehicleleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/toyota/corolla/hatchback-2.0-vvt-i-hybrid-icon-tech-5dr-cvt

I've been playing with the figures on this.  I pay 300 a month for the Focus on pcp and it ties me to Ford.  I'm going to let the pcp run out and then get some choice.

 

 

I barely do any miles so mileage limits shouldn't be a problem.  5-6k will be fine.

The monthly figure is a bit more complicated.  I have approx £15k as cash (including the £3k from the sale of the Golf).  I was expecting to 'lose' around £220 a month in depreciation on the Leon/Focus.  But that doesn't translate to £220 a month on finance as there'll be a deposit to pay and a final balloon payment at the end.  I'm also not understanding the final payment...it's like £6k after 3 years.  You can't buy a 3 year old Focus/Corrolla for £6k though.  They must be massively overestimating the depreciation?  

Anyone know anything about these?  Plenty of spec, chunky tyres, high seating position...  Seems a lot for that price??

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202009224052331

20 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Anyone know anything about these?

Ah, you like a good chinese, do you?😃  Autocar seem to rate it quite highly for the price.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mg-motor/zs

13 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Ah, you like a good chinese, do you?😃  Autocar seem to rate it quite highly for the price.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mg-motor/zs

Lol, as long as it doesn't smell like a Chinese takeaway I don't mind!

Aside from the ridiculous engine choice (how do they only get 105bhp from a 1.5 nowadays?) it genuinely looks like quite a nice car.  And is something I could buy outright without having to worry about finance deals etc.

Major downside is that there's no MG garage locally to test one.

 

Tom there is no final payment on a lease, like there is on a pcp.  But you don't get any chance to buy it at the end, you just hand it back.

Deposit is 1,3,6 or 12 times the monthly.  So the bigger the deposit the smaller the monthly.  Usually the longer the term the lower the monthly and the lower the miles the lower the monthly.  

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

And is something I could buy outright without having to worry about finance deals etc.

 

But I suspect you may worry about the depreciation on that, if buying outright😀.

3 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Tom there is no final payment on a lease, like there is on a pcp.  But you don't get any chance to buy it at the end, you just hand it back.

Some lease companies are happy to give the driver first refusal. Bought a couple of my company lease cars in the past. Worth asking the question if you particularly like the car (or have a buyer lined up!😀)

1 hour ago, Guy Heaton said:

Tom there is no final payment on a lease, like there is on a pcp.  But you don't get any chance to buy it at the end, you just hand it back.

Deposit is 1,3,6 or 12 times the monthly.  So the bigger the deposit the smaller the monthly.  Usually the longer the term the lower the monthly and the lower the miles the lower the monthly.  

Thanks Guy, I think I'm starting to get my head around it now...

Don't think it's going to work though.  The payments are just too much compared to the depreciation I was expecting from buying outright, albeit slightly used.  Just as an idea, I checked the Ford PCP on a 1.0 155 Focus Active X.  £10k deposit, then 24 monthly payments of £220 odd.  Works out as about £15k over the 2 years without paying a final payment to own.  Compared to around £5k depreciation on a slightly used car in the same timescale.  Maybe my maths is wrong but that seems like a hell of a difference!

 

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

But I suspect you may worry about the depreciation on that, if buying outright😀.

Let's face it, whatever I buy I'll worry about something!!

Lack of a local MG dealer has probably made it unviable though.  Not only could I not test it but it'll be a pain for servicing and any warranty work.  

A lease is basically just a long term rental.  You are paying for the depreciation on the car.

Pcp is similar but yes the maths are different and I'm not sure why.

We were sold on pcp with the idea you never actually get to the end of it before you trade it in for a new one, so if you time it right you change before the 2 year service.  This has worked for us on the missus car but not mine, not least because Ford don't make a car I want at the moment.  So I want out at the end so I can have choice.

There is an argument that lease and pcp are a waste of money cos you have nothing at the end.  But for me the new car warranty has worked perfectly. When my car broke down, the AA took it to the dealer, provided a car the same day to my house, and at the end I dropped the rental at the dealer when I picked mine up.

After running a lovely but money pit Merc and taking trains and buses to garages many times I was fed up with it.

Yeah, it's not actually about the money so much...to me, money is useless when it's just a number on a statement.  I now really wish I'd wasted more money when I had the chance several years ago.  Last couple of years I've barely been able to afford food which is partly why the Golf stayed for so long!  But now that that's changed, I'd like to hope that if I had a car was smooth enough for my stomach and that I could trust implicitly, knowing it hadn't been ruined by previous owners in any way, that I'd be able to start getting out more and working on issues that have spiralled under the pandemic.  Obviously I do have a budget though, although it's coming from a savings account rather than an income, and have to be realistic about what that monthly figure should be.

 

I do understand the difference between leasing and PCP now, hadn't quite got it last night.

Just looking at lease options from my local Ford dealer and not sure that's viable either.

For a manual Active X 155 MHEV with a free colour and no options it's £400 a month for 24 months, or £290 a month for 36 months.  (Total, including deposit and VAT).  If I could guarantee my income for the next 3 years then that one may have been ok but as I can't I don't think it's worth the risk.  

It depends on how you look at things on perspective. Our last car Focus MK3 (6 months old with under 3k on the clock) we bought cash with a trade in on our Mk2.

IIRC from what I worked out over the period we had it. It roughly worked out overall @ £148pm including all servicing and Bill's ( Tyres). 

We have gone the same way with the MK4 albeit a lot more expensive from the start. Time will tell if it was the right decision. 

As it stands atm the jury is still out. If the MK3 we had was as comfy as the present MK4 then I'd swap straight away. 

Hope you find out which way works best for yourself. 

1 hour ago, Guy Heaton said:

A lease is basically just a long term rental.  You are paying for the depreciation on the car.

Pcp is similar but yes the maths are different and I'm not sure why.

I've always worked on the broad principle that a cars worth about 50% of the new price at 2 years, and about 30% at 3, so whichever way you do it you've got to fund that depreciation.

Though I leased a lot of cars through work, the only finance I've used as a private buyer is straight HP, and then only if getting an extra incentive to take finance and  getting 0% which doesn't happen that often.

Always thought leasing was a clearer system with less traps for the unwary. I've always been suspicious of PCP as a way of locking you in, particularly for people who are unable to find the deposit for the next vehicle.

Problem nowadays is no-one is interested in cash buyers, they're all incentivised to sell finance and often the only discount on offer is a "deposit contribution" from the manufacturer. Manufacturers are increasingly controlling the price anyway. I think I mentioned elsewhere that BMW have moved to a system where they set prices so there is no haggling at the dealer who in effect gets a handling fee from BMW for doing the admin, handover, etc. Looks like others will follow suit, a process accelerated by the pandemic where a lot of sales have been online minimum contact arrangements.

 

If I had a lump sum like Tom I'd be tempted to buy a good low mileage Lexus or Toyota that would be worth the reliability gamble and stick what I would have paid monthly into savings for consumables and services.

35 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

Problem nowadays is no-one is interested in cash buyers, they're all incentivised to sell finance and often the only discount on offer is a "deposit contribution" from the manufacturer. Manufacturers are increasingly controlling the price anyway. I think I mentioned elsewhere that BMW have moved to a system where they set prices so there is no haggling at the dealer who in effect gets a handling fee from BMW for doing the admin, handover, etc. Looks like others will follow suit, a process accelerated by the pandemic where a lot of sales have been online minimum contact arrangements.

 

Totally agree. 

Had exactly the same scenario at Ford when we bought the MK4. No haggle at all despite trying to push nearer to what I wanted for the MK3.

Condition or low mileage and even FSH didn't matter didly squat.

All that did matter was the numbers.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

If I had a lump sum like Tom I'd be tempted to buy a good low mileage Lexus or Toyota that would be worth the reliability gamble and stick what I would have paid monthly into savings for consumables and services.

Low mileage doesn't automatically mean good sadly...that's the trap I fell into with the Mk4 I've just bought. 

I should've known better really, the Mk3 had only covered 42k when I bought it and that was all ruined/neglected.  People just can't be trusted to keep anything nice.  If I'm spending this amount of money, it will have to be on something brand new.

1 hour ago, Wino said:

IIRC from what I worked out over the period we had it. It roughly worked out overall @ £148pm including all servicing and Bill's ( Tyres). 

That's roughly what my Mk2 cost between 2014 and 2018.  Depreciation alone cost £100 a month...  Never expected it to be so much on a car that was already 6 years old.  I bought the Mk3 around 6 years old as well, but only owned it a few months, again losing roughly £100 a month.

So far, the Golf has been the cheapest car I've ever owned, I have a buyer lined up (depending on how much longer it takes to sort something new) at just £50 a month in depreciation over the last 2.5 years.  Also bought just under 6 years old but previous write off and high mileage, so cheaper to start with.  Servicing and repairs have also been much lower than either Focus, just one service, one tyre and a pair of wiper blades.  Just goes to show used cars are always a lottery!

 

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Always thought leasing was a clearer system with less traps for the unwary. I've always been suspicious of PCP as a way of locking you in, particularly for people who are unable to find the deposit for the next vehicle.

The lease does seem like the better option for me tbh.  (I would include myself in the unwary category too!)  It's essentially the same as Motability would have been if I'd been eligible.

 

The local Ford dealer is closed today...I might take a drive past to see if they have any Active X's I can physically look at without being blasted with hand sanitizer at the perimeter.  2 minutes walking past the forecourt will count as my legally permitted daily exercise.   It looks like they're still allowing test drives, unaccompanied for 30 minutes after sanitizing, though I guess the website just hasn't been updated since we dropped into Tier 4 on Boxing Day.

I've thought about PCP a few times , I can get focus active 125 mhev for £259 dep then £259month. So basically renting a car for £65 a week. I've just looked at how much my Mondeo has depreciated since I bought it . Ouch!! 

Lost between £5-6k over 19 months. 

So between £263 and £315 month loss. 

1 minute ago, iantt said:

I've thought about PCP a few times , I can get focus active 125 mhev for £259 dep then £259month. So basically renting a car for £65 a week. I've just looked at how much my Mondeo has depreciated since I bought it . Ouch!! 

Lost between £5-6k over 19 months. 

So between £263 and £315 month loss. 

That's a pretty considerable loss!!  

If you don't need the Mondeo size then that seems like a better option tbh.  Do you know of any common issues with either of the 1.0 MHEVs?  Also, what's the service interval on them?  Is it 2 years like the 1.5?

Or I could hand my Mondeo in as deposit on a Mustang 5.0 V8 and pay £325 a month!!!  

Then £500 a month in fuel. Lol 

19 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That's a pretty considerable loss!!  

If you don't need the Mondeo size then that seems like a better option tbh.  Do you know of any common issues with either of the 1.0 MHEVs?  Also, what's the service interval on them?  Is it 2 years like the 1.5?

No idea on issues , none when new that I can think of. Same 2 yr intervals. 

3 minutes ago, iantt said:

No idea on issues , none when new that I can think of. Same 2 yr intervals. 

That's good to know!  So in theory, it should only need to go to the dealer once if I lease a new one.  Won't need MOT and I'll never wear out the tyres or brakes in 3 years.  Hopefully there won't be any warranty faults either, but good to know it's there just in case.  I'm happy with the breakdown service I have now so won't need the 'convenience' checks for that either.

I really an warming to the idea of a hassle-free 3 year lease on an Active X 155...  What would happen if I was to lose the income and could no longer cover it out of interest?  Can you just stop paying and return the car early (as with Motability) or are you still liable for the whole 3 years worth of payments?

For a ford you would need to service it at 2 years.  Also does your breakdown provide a replacement car for as long as it takes to fix yours?