Water In Plug Ports Issue, With Pictures

[joona2134]

Need to say big thanks for posting your findings.

My dad recently purchased a mk2 focus, little over a week and it started jumping in low revs, he took it back and the garage said it was the HT leads (so much for a full service before its sold!). Basically the next few weeks it was back and forth, the garage changed the core plugs saying the water was coming from them, they changed the spark plugs the HT leads and the coil pack and the car worked great for a few weeks that's when the water returned. After a few min's searching I found this and tomorrow will try the fix. I'll let you know how I get on, fingers crossed the guy at the garage hasn't made things worse.

[catch]

 

Now my question is, how do you go about cleaning the area as illustrated?

Sorry for replying so late Turvey, I don't visit much these days, hence I missed your post.

I suppose you are sorted know, but what I did was just paint the area around the plugs port wells with "Hammerite Kurust" But to be honest I reckon the heat generated by the engine on the caste iron head, sorts it all out anyway, with or without applying and Kurust. And yes I did give it a little scrub with a min wire brush, and vacummed it out.

[catch]

 

Need to say big thanks for posting your findings.

My dad recently purchased a mk2 focus, little over a week and it started jumping in low revs, he took it back and the garage said it was the HT leads (so much for a full service before its sold!). Basically the next few weeks it was back and forth, the garage changed the core plugs saying the water was coming from them, they changed the spark plugs the HT leads and the coil pack and the car worked great for a few weeks that's when the water returned. After a few min's searching I found this and tomorrow will try the fix. I'll let you know how I get on, fingers crossed the guy at the garage hasn't made things worse.

 

Hi there, I glad you found my thread helpfull, and remember it builds the knowlage base, if you report back on how you got on, be it supportive of my solution or not.

As I did not find out about the water in my ports until a year after purchasing it [i'd actually had no issuse with the car it ran fine] When I contacted the Ford dealer who sold it to me, now they had undertook a full major service the day prior to me picking the car up [so they renewed the spark plugs] I say they did replace the spark plugs, as if they had not, it would have been still sporting the original plugs, four years in situ.

And if that had been the case, I guess as the fault had been present from day one [an original MK2 build problem] said plugs woud have been in situ for five years, when undertaking year five service. They would have been rusted solid to the head, and would nodoubt have sheared off when my mechanic attempted to remove one. But they came out no problem, so the Ford "technician" who serviced the car prior to me picking it up, most likely changed the oil. Then changed the plugs, just allowing the water to run into the piston ports on removing said plugs.

So no way one year later would they admit they knew of the problem. Hence they suggested, I take it in [out of warranty] and they would replace the core plugs. Dews of Halifax. Ford Main Dealer, sold the car as "Franchise Approved" if anybodys interested.

Dealers !Removed! over customers is common place. Though I sorted the problem myself, I take my car to a small backstreet one man band for servicing. And I'm actually present when he does any job on my car, that said I would trust him even if I could not be present.

joona2134, if your garage replaced the plugs fair do's, but if you have any doubts about that. If I were you, I'd purchase a "plug socket" [always handy to have in the boot] Then just try slacking off each individual spark plug, and nipping them back up again. That way you will be sure they are not going to shear off on you come the next time you inspect or change them.

I'm still running on the plugs that the Ford dealer replaced in Oct 2009, though I always inspect them at every oil change. Spark plugs should be good for 40K miles and more, oh and the air filter. My car has only done 18,630 miles since I bought it [51.3K in total] The fuel economy now is as good as it was in the first year after I purchased it [4 years 5 months ago] and they are as clean as a whistle.

Welcom to the the forum.

Edit: the automaticaly site censored word replaced by this > !removed! < was what you do to a screw having manipulated it with a screwdriver

[Nathan_M]

Easiest way to protect the plugs after you have water proofed the washer jets is to just rub some copper grease on the threads and that should stop them from becoming stuck other than that the rusty appearance of the head shouldn't really matter.

Sent from my LT30p using Ford OC mobile app

[joona2134]

I have some tools and know the basics of cars (scooters are more my sort of thing lol). Today we replaced the core plugs and ran the car a good few junctions on the M6 with zero problems. I obviously know now that the core plugs were not the issue, but id rather check everything that was "replaced".

Now this morning it rained for a few hours and as sure as "eggs is eggs" there were small deposits of water on the engine (and I know it wasn't there last night), so its obviously the incoming water that has been mistaken for something worse and thankfully I found this site :)

Can I just ask what silicone grease you used? I tried my local DIY shops on the way home but they only had sealer and sadly the car spares just down the road was closed. I did a quick eBay search and found "Carlube" silicone grease and a few plumbing brands but im unsure which to buy.

Thanks so much for the help guys

Mark

[catch]

Hi Mark,

this is the brand I bought http://www.amazon.co.uk/Servisol-Silicone-Grease-50G/dp/B000L97ZPI but any will do if it states it is "silicone grease"

And like Nathan suggested earlier, I'd get a tube of copper grease while your at it, just bill the old man :D

[Nathan_M]

I would seal the jets to stop the water once and for all that's the best repair, I used some silicone sealant on mine I brought it years ago to fix a leaky aerial fitting on an old renault belonging to a family member I used as little as possible so I can remove them if i ever need to.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Ford OC mobile app

[joona2134]

Hey guys, I finally got around to sealing the jets last week but I have waited until a few days of rain to post my findings. Well, it worked. We have had on and off rain all week but not one drop has gotten on to the engine so thank you very much for this great post and the info contained it.

Sadly I believe the damage has already been done, as I dried out the spark plugs and cleaned up the bay after I had sealed the jets in and after letting the car run for 5 - 10 mins there was water around the spark plug holes, not much but it wasn't there when I put it all back together. I have since taken the car to a mechanic and explained all that has happened. He pressure tested the cooling system and small amount of coolant was going on to the spark plugs, he has said either a very slight head crack or core plugs, but due to the age and low mileage he would bet core plugs. Its booked in to be done with a cam belt next week.

Once again, thanks for the help

Mark

[artscot79]

core plugs its a common issue yet many gargaes will charge for a new head rather than admit its a simple job usually the core plug next to spark plug 1

[catch]

Hey guys, I finally got around to sealing the jets last week but I have waited until a few days of rain to post my findings. Well, it worked. We have had on and off rain all week but not one drop has gotten on to the engine so thank you very much for this great post and the info contained it.

Sadly I believe the damage has already been done, as I dried out the spark plugs and cleaned up the bay after I had sealed the jets in and after letting the car run for 5 - 10 mins there was water around the spark plug holes, not much but it wasn't there when I put it all back together. I have since taken the car to a mechanic and explained all that has happened. He pressure tested the cooling system and small amount of coolant was going on to the spark plugs, he has said either a very slight head crack or core plugs, but due to the age and low mileage he would bet core plugs. Its booked in to be done with a cam belt next week.

Once again, thanks for the help

Mark

Mark,

sorry to hear you are still having problems, like you say as there is no evidence of water on top of the

engine, or coil pack.Then you have fixed that particular issue of rain

water getting into the engine bay via the inadequate washer seals.

Now you say a mechanic has suggested it's either a

slight head crack or core plugs. Did you not say you have had the core

plugs replaced in post 55? If that is indeed the case, then it has to be

a cracked head!

Just a few of questions, what year/ reg is your dads Focus?

This aforementioned mechanic, does he work for the dealer that sold your dad the car?

What date did your dad purchase the car?

What warranty if any was given?

Most

dealers only offer three months warranty as part of the sale/ contract.

Some will give longer if pushed, it's all part of the "haggling"

process between you and the dealer.

But in reality under the Sale Of Goods Act,

You have rights and protections, but the

vast majority of the public are ignorant of these rights and protections. But the facts are, no warranty given or not given by the dealer, can dimminish your protections under the Sale Of Goods Act. Follow the link below

Warranties - The Legal Requirements when Selling Second Hand Cars

So my advice to you is, it is evident

the faults your dad's car has, were without doubt there at the point of

sale. And if said fault/ fault's were not brought to your attention at

point of sale . Meaning they told you about it / them, but you still agreed to buy it with said fault/faults. That fact would have to be recorded on the bill of sale [your receipt] for them to defend themselves against any claims arising as a result of aforementioned faults.

So

take my advice, make it clear to the dealer you are well versed in your

rights under the Sale Of Goods Act [print content of said link off and

present them with a copy, if you meet resistance from them] I they still refuse to undertake their liablities as outline in said document.

Present them with two options, they can either make good the vehicle at their expense. Or you will reject the vehicle as "Not Fit For Purpose" thus making the contract between you both "Null and Void"

And that being the case you are returning the vehicle to them and demand

they give you a full refund of all monies paid to them for said

vehicle.

If they still refuse to accept liablity, instruct them you have spoken to "Trading Standards"

and they said if they the dealer still refuse to either put the vehicle

right of reimburse you. That you were to come back to them, and they

would take the matter up.

Bet you, they the dealer will sort it for you. They will not want to be done by "Trading Standards" it's bad for business.

Catch

[Rustyfocus]

Hey, decided to bite the bullet and check out the spark plug well today. Found a bit of water on top (driver side) and when I inspected ports 1 & 2 I found that the whole well is covered in surface rust. No water in there at the moment though.

I would like to prevent the flooding of the well so does anyone know if the Halfords 3 in 1 Professional Silicone Spray Lubricant is suitable for preventing the leak?

Thanks.

[madmole]

Spray silicon is too thin. You want nice thick Silicon grease

Any dive or water sports shop should carry it

Its also great stuff to wipe over door seals and sun roof seals and it protects the rubber and makes it seal better

(oh and its edible!)

[Rustyfocus]

Sounds good. Thanks

[beerbarrel49]

• Had the wet plug problem today dont know if I have fixed it firstly the rubber plug between two and three cylinders sealed it down with sealant. Next drilled a 6mm hole at spark coil wall end not the timing belt end hopefully water if it gets in will drain out there as hole below the stand pipes at plug holes.

Someone said why do plug caps not keep water out look at them they have nick out out of them on each circular lip never would stop water going down hole .

Hope this fixes it

[artscot79]

The rubber plug Is a freeze plug certainly wouldn't have used silicone on it as that goes into the block nor would I advise putting a hole in the rocker or engine wall that wont cure the issue its really simple buy the washers add grease and fit

[JW1982]

Drilling a hole in the cilinder head is a very bad idea. The cilinder head is heating up / cooling down continuously. As a result of these temperature fluctuations the material of the cilinder head (casted aluminium) expands and de-expands continuously. The cilinder head is designed to endure the forces caused by the temperature fluctuations. Drilling a hole (even a small one) will affect the structural design/strength of the cilinder head. This can result in a cracked cilinder head.

If there was meant to be a draining hole in the cilinder head Ford would have made it. Some Ford engines do have a draining hole. There definetely will be a good reason why this type of engine does not have a draining hole.

Next to this drilling a hole is not the solution for this problem. You have to fix the cause of the problem instead of the symptoms. The problem of water between the spark plugs is caused by leaking washer jets. Resealing the washer jets will fix the problem. If there has been water between the spark plugs for a long time the freeze plugs may be corroded through which means they will also need to be replaced.

[firefoxed]

MK2 1.6 petrol engine.

Heavy rain last night and the car went in to limp home mode and not firing on all cylinders. Went back to the dealer this morning and the mechanic said that the frost plugs needed to be replaced on the two cylinders on the left hand side as you look at the block. Both had about an inch of liquid in them and he said it was coolant but when he walked away I dipped my finger in and it just seems to be plain brown water and not coolant. The plugs and the leads look exactly as posted in this thread.

He kept the car for an hour and replaced both frost plugs but after reading this thread I guess the problem has not been fixed, time to find some silicone grease.

[TCA]

Many thanks to catch for taking the time to post his solution. I'm another focus owner (2005 1.6 sport) who has just experienced the misfiring because of water in the spark plug wells. I have some clear silicone sealant but will do as advised and hunt down some silicone grease. Also wanted to make sure I was buying the correct "revised" washer jets with different sized gaskets. These below are compatible but are they the "revised" version?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FOCUS-MK2-C-MAX-FRONT-WINDSCREEN-WASHER-JETS-X-2-SPRAY-NOZZLE-GENUINE-/400606817837?hash=item5d4606ee2d:m:m36K0-L0lmInRuoEqLJc7Xw

[TCA]

To answer my own question, those I linked above on eBay are incorrect. I hadn't noticed the part number half way down the ad. FINIS part 1708176 is correct as below but there are two versions pre and post 2008 models:

http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/search.php?keywords=1708176

Is the 2008-2011 version what I need to fix my 2005 Focus? Or is the 2005-2008 part now revised and it's that I need?

Anybody? I want to get this ordered ASAP.

[artscot79]

Both the same

[TCA]

Great. Thanks for replying artscot. I'm not seeing much in the way of gaskets advertised with the washer jets and quite a range of prices on eBay, so guess I'll just order a cheaper pair and hope for the best.

[LV1]

Thanks Catch!!! Mine were leaking, bought new spark plugs, silicone grease and penetrating fluid. Was preparing for hell :) but luckily no water in the spark plug wells or rust  Sealed mine with "silicone dielectric grease" and did both tests.. they don't leak!

£2.30 for silicone dielectric grease on ebay

^Also can be used on your HT leads when putting them back in!

[Jordand]

New member here. I didn't want to resurrect this thread, but seeing as the last post made here was Sunday just gone, I don't think I'm breaking any rules or going to annoy anybody.

Anyway, I bought a 2004 Fiesta 1.4 about a month ago, had a dodgy clutch which I have since had replaced and the car was running fine until this morning. Please note - there was heavy rain in the Stockport area last night.

Started the car as normal and noticed it was idling at a little lower RPM than normal (usually about 1.1K-1.2K until it warms up, then sits nicely between 700-800). Put the car into reverse and attempted to move out of the car park of my flats. Car died as if stalled.. Turned the engine off and back on again, and attempted to move the car back into my parking space, just in case. Same thing happen when engaging first, RPM dropped low, car cut out. 

After searching around on the net, I found this thread and have ordered the new washer jets and some silicone grease. I did notice a couple of weeks ago when I changed my oil that the engine had a little bit of water knocking about. I just need to figure out how to get to the spark plugs so I can check myself how much (if any) water is ther/ 

I am not a mechanic, but I do believe in knowing as much as possible about repair and maintenance on machines you own. 

I just wanted to give a shout out to Catch, as this thread has been a really interesting read and may point to a very simple fix, as opposed to taking it to a garage and having them just replace "possible" parts until "something" happens (which scarily seems to be the process from a LOT of other threads I've seen already).

I will report back once I've managed to get into the wells and let you know if I'm seeing water there.

 

edit - no water in plug wells, but staining on the airbox/cover from water. Gonna replace the jets anyway as they're on the way. 

[Jon84]

An old thread but a goodun!

After the torrential rain in SE England on Wednesday,  my 1.6 VCT-Ti started misfiring and losing power, idling erratically.

Before jumping in at the deep end trying to replace stuff I checked the leads and when removing the leads at the head end, I saw the water around plugs 1&2 (from the left) and thought that can't be good.  

Then I found this thread and it all made sense! The misfire only came on when the engine was to temperature, which made sense as the water turned to steam and got into the connections. 

 

I've managed to get the water out today and took it for a run up to engine temp c.120 degrees (loads better but a little rough), now I've taken the leads off to let any last moisture evaporate while the engine is hot and the weather is glorious.

 

£9 in Plumbase has got me what is probably a lifetime of Silicone Grease, I removed and refitted the existing washers with grease between bonnet, gasket and washer jet. Took the hose to it, and nothing came through.

 

Thanks to those who contributed to the thread, this is saving a lot of unnecessary cost!!

 

 

[Dizzle]

Thank you for the above posts. I've had the same issues with a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6. I've had to change the spark plugs, ht leads and coil pack because of it (purchased the car about 9 months ago).

Would be nice to have all of the links on one post for anyone else that has the same problem.

 

Update - Essentially if your Focus is 2007 onwards it probably has the heated washer jets (easy to tell when looking at them). Cheapest place I found was Vospers or eBay for the heated washer jets (Ford part number 1708177). The new style washer (as mentioned in this post) is much larger and sits outside the jet on the bonnet but I still added silicone grease as recommended.

http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/search.php?keywords=washer+jet+heated - Various Ford washer jets. Check model required.

http://www.vospers.com/parts/ford/genuine-ford-focus-front-heated-washer-jet-2004-2011-new-1708177.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380370452070?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT - Silicone Sealant

 

Hope this helps, can't believe a 9 year old car still had the old style jets on it, I wonder how many spark plugs, ht leads and coil packs it had been through!?

Edited January 14, 2017 by Dizzle