Swirl Marks

[andy64]

Right bought a Panther Black Fiesta 8 weeks ago - looked gorgeous and perfect when we picked it up - as you would expect

So I thought right I must wash it regularly and look after it (never really bothered with my old car)

Didn't bother with the Supaguard protection or whatever it was called and the Salesman said the paint these days is a soft paint so you must use soft cleaning materials and microfibre mitts are a must. So nipped off to Halfords and bought a ruck of microfibre cloths, mitts, lambswool and sheepskin wool mitts - yeah !!!!! - no .............

Washed it every week for 8 weeks now and starting to notice a lot of swirl marks but why ?? - If you read the packaging it says "these fibres will not scratch or mark even the most delicate finish", but obviously it has

I lightly hose off the car to remove any cack, then wash the car with a microfibre mitt in some warm water (with turtle wax car shampoo), then chamois leather most of the standing water off and then remove any remaining water off with a microfibre cloth (is this my mistake ????) should I just let any remaining droplets dry naturally ?? - The reason I don't is I had noticed that you get dirty water marks (noticeabley by both door mirrors going down the car door, even if you wipe them away the come back, they seem to pool on the chrome forward of the door mirror, also down the bonnet from by the windscreen jet outlets and also if you open and shut the hatchback water runs down the back valence) and this looks like you haven't washed it !!!!

I have waxed it twice since new with Turtle wax, applying it with a microfibre cloth and buffing it off by hand using a sheepskin mitt

It had no swirl marks on it when we bought it so what do the manufacturers / dealers do differently to me when they wash and wax a car ?? - What have I missed ?? - What am I doing wrong ??

Feel gutted now, and I am worried if I carry on like this I will have more swirl marks on it than the local ice skating rink !!!!!!!!!

Anyone any advise ??

Ta

Ezzy

My Panther Black Fiesta's my 3rd black car & I've never had this problem with any of my black vehicles, including the Fiesta which is now 4 months old & is washed each week! Also never gone for any "paint protection" traetment either. My regime (honed over 25 years!) is as follows (washing in the shade if possible):-

1) Hose the car down well before washing, to rinse off loose dirt & thoroughly wet the bodywork.

2) Wash over with a sponge & lukewarm water (I don't use shampoo!), using plenty of water & taking care not to rub too hard, starting at the top of the car & working my way down, finishing with the wheels.

3) Hose down well again.

4) Dry with a chamois leather, rinsing the leather out regularly.

5) Take the car for a short run (couple of miles) to shake water out of the doors & dry off the brakes.

6) Use chamois to remove water marks from water which has run out from the mirrors & behind trim etc.

5) Every 6 weeks or so - polish with Autoglym Super Resin Polish.

Hope this is helpful!

[paulworthing]

Hard candy must be exellent on hot magenta. Rainforest Rub goes over it well I find, maybe your next buy? Actually you're probably not sad enough to collect waxes, that'd be me only.

Wanna polish my car sometime then Dan?? ;)

[DanGull]

I've told you Paul - bring it here and I'll do it!

I really want to try banana armour, but it's colour charged and I don't trust it on white, so yours would be a great excuse to buy it!

Karen - Red Mist is lovely stuff, make sure your wax is well cured before you apply it though or it'll take it off.

Andy - I really would recommend you put something over the Autoglym SRP - leaving an abrasive polish as your top layer of protection is asking for trouble. Mind you, I'd also recommend you buy some shampoo and get rid of the sponge and chamois, so each to their own as ever.

[paulworthing]

How far is it form here to there then??

[DanGull]

200 miles ish

[paulworthing]

Oh - so it'll be filthy by the time I get back home then

You could always have a nice run out in your car tho . . . ;)

[EzzyRallyBoy]

My Panther Black Fiesta's my 3rd black car & I've never had this problem with any of my black vehicles, including the Fiesta which is now 4 months old & is washed each week! Also never gone for any "paint protection" traetment either. My regime (honed over 25 years!) is as follows (washing in the shade if possible):-

1) Hose the car down well before washing, to rinse off loose dirt & thoroughly wet the bodywork.

2) Wash over with a sponge & lukewarm water (I don't use shampoo!), using plenty of water & taking care not to rub too hard, starting at the top of the car & working my way down, finishing with the wheels.

3) Hose down well again.

4) Dry with a chamois leather, rinsing the leather out regularly.

5) Take the car for a short run (couple of miles) to shake water out of the doors & dry off the brakes.

6) Use chamois to remove water marks from water which has run out from the mirrors & behind trim etc.

5) Every 6 weeks or so - polish with Autoglym Super Resin Polish.

Hope this is helpful!

Yeah thanks Andy great stuff just a quickie on point 6 - when you return home and remove the water marks, do you gently rub with the chamois or does it need a bit of elbow grease ?? as I thought chamois only removed excess water as I have never considered them something you could use to get "marks" out ??

[alexavfc123]

It could be a number of things...

First of all, remember it's not the mitt/sponge itself that causes the swirls/scratches, it's what they pick up. Are you using the 2 bucket method (one wash, one rinse) and do you have grit guards in the buckets? If you're taking dirt off the car and not rinsing in clean water with a grit guard you may redeposit the grit elsewhere on the car and cause swirls.

Second - you say you're drying with a mf, but how? If you're wiping the car down, you're likely to get swirls. I have a massive drying towel and two smaller ones. I lie the huge towel on the paint and press down gently. If the towel is absorbent enough, it will absorb the water with no movement. Note that a mf cloth and mf drying towel are very different. The smaller towels are used in the same way. Chamois - not for me, ditch it and buy a decent towel.

Thirdly, get some decent shampoo (turtlewax :o), the extra lubrication makes the dirt fall off more easily and therefore is less likely to scratch. Point 1 and 2 are more likely to be the causes of swirls on your case however. Dodo Born to be Mild is truly astonishing to work with, and makes the car easier to dry in my opinion.

Fourthly, snow foam is great as a non contact pre-wash - it shifts a lot of dirt and means it's not there when the mitts and towels appear.

To get the swirls out -

Dodo Lime Prime, Autoglym Super Resin Polish, Poorboys Swirl Remover are all great products. Machine polishing will take care of them once and for all, however I'd leave that to a pro if you haven't done it. I don't try it - yet.

Whats wrong with Turtlewax? I use it and think it's a very good shampoo

[Bashful]

Dan - my car is waxed, I assume I can use the red mist after washing and drying in between the full detail?

[DanGull]

The thing with detailing - is there are a million different opinions on everything.

Why I don't like Turtle Wax (shampoos in particular...)

I find that they're not wax safe, so the first thing they do is strip off the expensive wax that I applied last time I washed the car.

Their concentrations are worse than something like Dodo Juice or Chemical Guys shampoos - so they work out more expensive in the long run.

They lack the lubricity of the shampoos that I do like, meaning that they dry oddly and don't leave the finish I'm after.

[DanGull]

Dan - my car is waxed, I assume I can use the red mist after washing and drying in between the full detail?

Yes Karen - if you're just doing a top up detail, then using the red mist straight after washing and drying will be aok. Because you're using BTBM, your wax will have stayed in tact, so the red mist will simply top it up.

[Bashful]

Yes Karen - if you're just doing a top up detail, then using the red mist straight after washing and drying will be aok. Because you're using BTBM, your wax will have stayed in tact, so the red mist will simply top it up.

Thanks Dan. I better order some then!

[andy64]

Yeah thanks Andy great stuff just a quickie on point 6 - when you return home and remove the water marks, do you gently rub with the chamois or does it need a bit of elbow grease ?? as I thought chamois only removed excess water as I have never considered them something you could use to get "marks" out ??

Just use a damp chamois taking care not to rub hard.

[tangotwo]

Just use a damp chamois taking care not to rub hard.

I have found Sonus Wunder Drying Towels are the best water absorbers. They are highly recommended by professional detailers.

[greenymk7]

iv only just seen this properly

pretty much everything dan has said is spot on. chamois definite no no.

when washing and drying use as little pressure as possible and work in straight lines.

i would suggest either lime prime or SRP

[MichellefromEssex]

Not sure if its been mentioned but Max washes his cloths in the washing machine on 60 degrees and only uses a washing powder like Ariel or Daz plain ones, nothing with added conditioner or essential oils as this can leave swirl marks on the cars he cleans. The main reason we didnt go for black (which I wanted and kicked and screamed for) was markings from washing and even general driving, grit kicking up for the road and branches along road side, black shows up everything!!!!!

[xxtrickzxx]

Not sure if its been mentioned but Max washes his cloths in the washing machine on 60 degrees and only uses a washing powder like Ariel or Daz plain ones, nothing with added conditioner or essential oils as this can leave swirl marks on the cars he cleans. The main reason we didnt go for black (which I wanted and kicked and screamed for) was markings from washing and even general driving, grit kicking up for the road and branches along road side, black shows up everything!!!!!

black is my favorite colour but its a nightmare to keep scratch and swirl free,where as white i am sure you could clean it with a wire brush and not notice any scratches

[Bashful]

Not sure if its been mentioned but Max washes his cloths in the washing machine on 60 degrees and only uses a washing powder like Ariel or Daz plain ones, nothing with added conditioner or essential oils as this can leave swirl marks on the cars he cleans. The main reason we didnt go for black (which I wanted and kicked and screamed for) was markings from washing and even general driving, grit kicking up for the road and branches along road side, black shows up everything!!!!!

Oh dear, I better go check if my washing powder (well actually is a gel) has any of these additions. Why does everything have to be so complicated!!!!

[greenymk7]

if you want to make sure then put boiling hot water & fairy liquid in a clean bucket and give them a swirl around.

fairy liquid will get out all the stubborn stuff in your cloths

[Bashful]

if you want to make sure then put boiling hot water & fairy liquid in a clean bucket and give them a swirl around.

fairy liquid will get out all the stubborn stuff in your cloths

I just thought the washing machine would be better at taking out all the dust and grit and stuff.

[greenymk7]

ideally yes its always better to stick them in the washing machine but if you need a couple of cloths quickly then a bucket and fairy work really well.

i clean my wheel mit in it all the time and its always been great.

:D

[Bashful]

ideally yes its always better to stick them in the washing machine but if you need a couple of cloths quickly then a bucket and fairy work really well.

i clean my wheel mit in it all the time and its always been great.

:D

Another top tip from Greeny ;)

[EzzyRallyBoy]

Just found this statement about AutoGlym Super Resin Polish :-

"We (valetshop.co.uk) consider Super Resin Polish (SRP) to be one of the very best 'all rounders' on the market, and without a doubt, it is the benchmark by which professionals judge other products by.

We have often thought that the name 'polish' wasn't all that appropriate as this product is mostly a wax, it contains virtually no abrasive polish, instead using chemicals to clean the paintwork (When I say 'clean', I mean it can remove stains. You will still need to wash your car to remove dirt and grit!). If you have a white car with greasy marks and stains around the door handles, SRP is very good at removing that sort of thing.

AutoGlym claims that SRP will remove light scratches but we have not found this to be the case. On the bright side, it is effective at removing stains, discolouration, hazing and light oxidization on all modern paintwork, and because it only has a very light 'cut', it is safe to use as often as you like, and it's even safe to use over AutoGlym's LifeShine Sealant."

My questions :-

1. If is good at getting rid of greasy stains etc isn't that just as good as a car shampoo then ?? - I can't see why Autoglym and valetshop.co.uk would thinks it is so special ??

2. If it contains virtually no abrasives, then it must contain some, which is why Autoglym claims it removes light scratches by only giving a light 'cut' but if its cutting , presumably this means removing something even if it is a microscopic layer of paint then its still removing paint ?? and if you can use it as often as you like then if you used it every day then surely after 3 years you have a car down to its primer ??

Can someone educate me on the above please .................................

[greenymk7]

you dont want to use it every wash.

SRP should be used as a polish only. a good washing routine and you wont need to use it often as you will keep the swirls away.

after using SRP you want to wax or seal the paintwork as SRP will take off any previous wax or seal that was on there.

ideally you want to use it twice a year at most!! just before summer and just before winter. obviously you dont need to do this if your paintwork is still looking good.

[EzzyRallyBoy]

As I have some swirl marks is there a swirl mark hiding product rather than a 'cutting' product to rid me of swirls ??

If I 'cut' the swirls to remove 'em I am frightened I will put them back again one day too !!!!!!!!!!