1.6 TDCi Focus Mk2 as a First Car

[Dylan9]

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Adrian Flux specialise in modified cars though, they don't tend to be as good for standard stuff! 

Though they do also do specialist young driver insurance which might apply here.

I've always found the Admiral group to be cheapest non-modified (Admiral, Elephant, Bell, Diamond etc).  But am with Flux on the ST as my mate works there lol.

Admiral and Diamond are among the most expensive options for me (£8,000 to insure the same Focus that'd cost £1,300 with Insure the Box). 

[TomsFocus]

Wow!  I've never had a black box so can't compare box insurers lol.  That's ridiculous though, what's your job and post code rating if you don't mind saying?

[Dee_82]

8 minutes ago, Dylan9 said:

Awesome, sounds like a good plan. What was the brake mod? Replacing the rear drums with discs? That was something I was looking into about a week ago. Cheers mate. 

That's the very one, I removed the drums after the NS wheel kept binding every morning, they look terrible anyway so rather than spend money on putting more horrible looking things on I decided I go down the discs and calliper route.  looks much better, handles much better, never had a binding problem since and the handbrake is bomber, I can drag my wheels behind me if I wanted to!.... but.

Mr insurance man will need to know and Mr insurance man will take a wad of money off you for the privilege. 

 

Learning Number two, buy the car with the features you want as standard because buying a car and adding them later will ultimately cost you more! :D

(Learning number one being never by a  pre2010 1.6TDCI again)

 

[Dylan9]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Wow!  I've never had a black box so can't compare box insurers lol.  That's ridiculous though, what's your job and post code rating if you don't mind saying?

According to this website, it's a B, and I'm a computer technician. 

• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L petrol
• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L TDCi diesel

Edit: The screen capture software I use doesn't like that website for some reason!

 

1 hour ago, Dee_82 said:

That's the very one, I removed the drums after the NS wheel kept binding every morning, they look terrible anyway so rather than spend money on putting more horrible looking things on I decided I go down the discs and calliper route.  looks much better, handles much better, never had a binding problem since and the handbrake is bomber, I can drag my wheels behind me if I wanted to!.... but.

MY insurance man will need to know and Mr insurance man will take a wad of money off you for the privilege.  Learning Number two, buy the car with the features you want as standard because buying a car and adding them later will ultimately cost you more! :D

 

A perfect excuse reason for me to be going after a Titanium!  (The thought about buying a Zetec and adding in features did hit my mind before though!)

[TomsFocus]

Titanium is definitely the one to go for...but make sure it has climate control as the manual ac is rubbish!  Plus privacy glass, full leathers, xenon's, power fold mirrors etc etc...  All of that was still an option even on the titanium!

Your post code and job seem reasonable, cannot understand why you're being quoted so much without a black box!!

[Dylan9]

13 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Titanium is definitely the one to go for...but make sure it has climate control as the manual ac is rubbish!  Plus privacy glass, full leathers, xenon's, power fold mirrors etc etc...  All of that was still an option even on the titanium!

Your post code and job seem reasonable, cannot understand why you're being quoted so much without a black box!!

I guess that's how insurance companies are now with new drivers in the 21–24 age range. Premiums are slightly cheaper for 17–20. 

I'm personally not a fan of leather seats, so I'd give that one a miss, but everything else sounds great. Cruise control is something I've seen more often on the diesels than the petrols.

[Dee_82]

Cruise control is a must if your driving any length of time I modded mine in and to date its the best mod ive done. next car will have CC, and xenons, power mirrors are on my hit list but that can wait, I'm doing the ST gauge pod with boost and oil temp first then probably best start saving up for the clutch and DMF, 95k just now and its feeling a bit.... odd, some odd noises and what not.

 

[TomsFocus]

Leather seats are wipe clean. ideal for any 'accidents'.   Plus they're electrically adjustable and heated...and like hens teeth on the Titanium haha!

Cruise control is quite easy to add yourself, and is probably the one option I couldn't live without lol!  Not sure whether adding that would raise your insurance though.

[Dee_82]

13 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Leather seats are wipe clean. ideal for any 'accidents'.   Plus they're electrically adjustable and heated...and like hens teeth on the Titanium haha!

Cruise control is quite easy to add yourself, and is probably the one option I couldn't live without lol!  Not sure whether adding that would raise your insurance though.

it certainly didn't change mine, minor mod or something like that. even replacing my headlamps with projectors didn't effect it but the brake where a problem.

What would be cool is thermoelectric cooling/heating, having a peltier device in each chair to not only warm you bum on a cold morning but also keep it cool on a warm one, nothing worse than having to peel off a leather chair in the summer! 

[TomsFocus]

Bigger/disc brakes make it look more appealing to thieves and mean you're likely to be driving harder which is why they're a problem.

Some insurers are daft for young people though, I saw something on facebook the other day where someone was being charged an extra £50 for adding a couple of small window stickers!   Needless to say the stickers were removed lol.

You should probably stop driving naked tbh, I never have to peel myself from the seat!   They could do with some cooling before sitting down when the suns been on them though I admit!

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, Dylan9 said:

That sounds like a death trap waiting to happen.  My grandfather had a Hillmax Minx in pastel green and white.

Safety standards were "Different" then. But most cars did not go so fast. Standard Imp was 40BHP (or 0BHP more often, when broken down!). The wandery steering was due to the engine being behind the rear wheels. But it still enjoyed success in rallying & racing, with various mods. I seem to recall my family had a Minx at one time, but that was a conventional drive layout.

There were certainly plenty of lunatics about on the roads, including me, tbh, on a few occasions!

Talking of lunacy, it is mad that improving the brakes makes insurance higher. But anything that makes insurance companies stop & think, or reduces competition, is an excuse to bump up premiums. And Toms reason above does make sense, but not to double it!

I have been surprised by the number of Foci with rear drums. I thought drums went out when abs came in? Both my abs cars have had discs all round.

 

[Dee_82]

8 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Talking of lunacy, it is mad that improving the brakes makes insurance higher. But anything that makes insurance companies stop & think, or reduces competition, is an excuse to bump up premiums.

I have been surprised by the number of Foci with rear drums. I thought drums went out when abs came in? Both my abs cars have had discs all round.

 

The annoying thing is, if you get a quote for a car which comes with them as standard, there isn't any additional cost at all, all estates come with the rear discs, when I got my brakes done I compared what it was with drums to the estate and it was the same, the parts are all stock ford as well so there is literally no difference and yet it added an extra 15 quid a month.

Mainland Europe mostly have discs, its only here in bleak wet Britain that have drums as standard.  Probably because it is colder so they see it as less need for a disc. with the weight of the drums and all the parts needed to make them work I cant believe that it is much more expensive to use a disc and calliper.

 

[TomsFocus]

Ford love their drums because they're cheap to produce! 

Most other manufacturers went to discs lol.

Even now the 1.0 EcoBoost Focus comes with drums!  

[Dee_82]

3 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Ford love their drums because they're cheap to produce! 

Most other manufacturers went to discs lol.

Even now the 1.0 EcoBoost Focus comes with drums!  

saw a poky little Red Festa the other day coming back from Knockhill with ST badges, lowered suspension, tinted windows and........... Red painted Drums with a zetec s front bumper  

can it really make that much of a difference tho, to replace the whole drum setup was only slightly less then converting it and that's at off the shelf prices.

 

[TomsFocus]

Lol, was it a mk6 Fiesta?  Might've been a Zetec S, amazingly they only had drums as well.  Was only the ST that got discs.

The initial cost of the drum setup is far less than the caliper setup when new yeah, obviously used calipers or recon ones are cheaper nowadays.  However if I was buying a new car I'd happily pay a bit extra for disc rears over drums myself!  I guess most Fords bought new are bought by old people or companies who don't care about that though.  

I can't think of any cars that leave the factory with over 90bhp on drums these days though!!

[Dylan9]

59 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Leather seats are wipe clean. ideal for any 'accidents'.   Plus they're electrically adjustable and heated...and like hens teeth on the Titanium haha!

Cruise control is quite easy to add yourself, and is probably the one option I couldn't live without lol!  Not sure whether adding that would raise your insurance though.

That is true, they are easier to clean. Are automatic wipers and headlights available on the Mk2.5?

 

35 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Bigger/disc brakes make it look more appealing to thieves and mean you're likely to be driving harder which is why they're a problem.

Some insurers are daft for young people though, I saw something on facebook the other day where someone was being charged an extra £50 for adding a couple of small window stickers!   Needless to say the stickers were removed lol.

You should probably stop driving naked tbh, I never have to peel myself from the seat!   They could do with some cooling before sitting down when the suns been on them though I admit!

• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L petrol
• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L TDCi diesel

I hope everyone is sitting down before clicking these links. If I wanted to put my website's emblem on my car's exterior, or swap out the drums for discs...

• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L petrol + exterior sticker
• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L TDCi diesel + exterior sticker

• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L petrol + rear disc brakes
• 2010 Titanium; 1.6 L TDCi diesel + rear disc brakes

 

20 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Safety standards were "Different" then. But most cars did not go so fast. Standard Imp was 40BHP (or 0BHP more often, when broken down!). The wandery steering was due to the engine being behind the rear wheels. But it still enjoyed success in rallying & racing, with various mods. I seem to recall my family had a Minx at one time, but that was a conventional drive layout.

There were certainly plenty of lunatics about on the roads, including me, tbh, on a few occasions!

Talking of lunacy, it is mad that improving the brakes makes insurance higher. But anything that makes insurance companies stop & think, or reduces competition, is an excuse to bump up premiums. And Toms reason above does make sense, but not to double it!

I have been surprised by the number of Foci with rear drums. I thought drums went out when abs came in? Both my abs cars have had discs all round.

 

I think all hatchback variants have rear drums as standard, even the Titanium. Pretty mundane to be honest, but I suppose Ford was trying to save money for either itself or the vehicle owner.

 

7 minutes ago, Dee_82 said:

The annoying thing is, if you get a quote for a car which comes with them as standard, there isn't any additional cost at all, all estates come with the rear discs, when I got my brakes done I compared what it was with drums to the estate and it was the same, the parts are all stock ford as well so there is literally no difference and yet it added an extra 15 quid a month.

Mainland Europe mostly have discs, its only here in bleak wet Britain that have drums as standard.  Probably because it is colder so they see it as less need for a disc. with the weight of the drums and all the parts needed to make them work I cant believe that it is much more expensive to use a disc and calliper.

 

Will the front discs fit the rear?

[Dee_82]

26 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Lol, was it a mk6 Fiesta?  Might've been a Zetec S, amazingly they only had drums as well.  Was only the ST that got discs.

The initial cost of the drum setup is far less than the caliper setup when new yeah, obviously used calipers or recon ones are cheaper nowadays.  However if I was buying a new car I'd happily pay a bit extra for disc rears over drums myself!  I guess most Fords bought new are bought by old people or companies who don't care about that though.  

I can't think of any cars that leave the factory with over 90bhp on drums these days though!!

Yeah, back end was zetec, front was a zetec S, both had ST badges, it was practically riding the rims it was lowered so low and then you have these hideous Red drums, ive seen quite a few people do that lately

[Dee_82]

1 minute ago, Dylan9 said:

That is true, they are easier to clean. Are automatic wipers and headlights available on the Mk2.5?

Will the front discs fit the rear?

They are available although not standard, they can be modded in if you don't have them with a little bit of work, mine were finally due to get installed today but they brought the wrong window :

The front discs are vented discs, they wont fit the rear calliper, the rears need to be the single plate without vents.  you also need to consider brake bias, the rears should have 265 on if the fronts are 278, if the fronts are 300 then you should have 280 on the rear. 

If you match the front and rear or have larger rears than the front you can introduce some problems when braking hard or if you end up braking on a corner (avoid if at all possible!)

[Dylan9]

24 minutes ago, Dee_82 said:

They are available although not standard, they can be modded in if you don't have them with a little bit of work, mine were finally due to get installed today but they brought the wrong window :

The front discs are vented discs, they wont fit the rear calliper, the rears need to be the single plate without vents.  you also need to consider brake bias, the rears should have 265 on if the fronts are 278, if the fronts are 300 then you should have 280 on the rear. 

If you match the front and rear or have larger rears than the front you can introduce some problems when braking hard or if you end up braking on a corner (avoid if at all possible!)

Okay, that's understandable. It's interesting that Carfolio has the brakes down as discs on both axles. Will the estate rear discs fit the hatchback?

Can most of the Titanium optional extras be fitted in manually? I was thinking cruise control, climate control, heated windscreens, power fold mirrors, xenon headlights, automatic wipers and headlights, and parking sensors. How much of that is possible with aftermarket parts? I mean, I will try my best to buy a Titanium with as many of these as possible, but there are likely to be some that I can't get included. This will be for the updated car I get next year, not the early Mk2 starter motor.

[TomsFocus]

Auto wipers and lights should be standard on the titanium in mk2.5.  Though not much else is lol.

Front callipers don't fit the rear due to the handbrake mechanism.

Heated screen is standard on anything except the very base modrls.

Climate control isn't really viable to retrofit as you have to remove the dashboard and change the entire heating box assembly and add a wiring loom.

Parking sensors and cruise are easy to retrofit.

Power fold mirrors and xenons should be easy but aren't cheap.

[Dee_82]

33 minutes ago, Dylan9 said:

Okay, that's understandable. It's interesting that Carfolio has the brakes down as discs on both axles. Will the estate rear discs fit the hatchback?

Can most of the Titanium optional extras be fitted in manually? I was thinking cruise control, climate control, heated windscreens, power fold mirrors, xenon headlights, automatic wipers and headlights, and parking sensors. How much of that is possible with aftermarket parts? I mean, I will try my best to buy a Titanium with as many of these as possible, but there are likely to be some that I can't get included. This will be for the updated car I get next year, not the early Mk2 starter motor.

The rear discs on the estate are 280s but the callipers are the same for both sizes, the only issue is that the carrier is different, the 265 carrier is much smaller than the 280. When I did mine I got estate callipers which came with the carrier then brought two new 265 carriers, since I had the callipers off the car I recon'd them myself changing the seals and dust boots.

Anything is doable if you through enough money at it BUT there are lots of things to keep in mind, do you want ot keep it looking OEM or not,

cruise control can be added really cheaply if you want to bodge it, but if you want it looking OEM then you will need a 4 spoke wheel and have to mess about with the airbag / cover

Auto lights will need the sensor but also a new window with the correct mounts (although someone said that a fiesta 6.5 auto mirror will fit but I haven't confirmed that)

Climate control will require a massive amount of changes which will pretty much require the whole dash removed, looms changed, sensors, the whole works, epic is probably an understatement.

heated windows are fairly standard on most models above zetec I think

power folded mirrors can be an aftermarket job, OEM would require some fairly large changes(?),

xenon lights are expensive and to do right will cost you a bomb, I did an after market conversion which looks good but with hindsight it would have been cheaper to buy a car with the extras AND it wouldn't become an MOT grey area.

Parking sensors are the easiest mod of all that lot and there I no real benefit to being OEM either, cheap and cheerful, but its a bit funny hacking holes in your bumper.

 

[damadgeruk]

My 2p worth... I'm on my fourth diesel Focus (2000 1.8Tddi, 2004 1.8Tddi, 2006 1.6TDCi, presently 2008 1.6TDCi) none of which had any significant engine issues up to selling point generally around 130K. The 90 BHp engine is perfectly capable of taking the car to illegal and due to the torque I actually enjoy driving mine. I find it funny when people suggest it is not enough, my first car had 37Bhp and 652cc! I also tow a 1150Kg trailer from time to time, it takes some winding up though I rarely have traffic behind me. :) 

My nephew had a 2008 1.6TDCi Focus estate as his first car and loved it. £30 road tax, 50MPG and no DPF to worry about (on the 90Bhp).

My 2006 TDCi went to a mate with 130K, he sold it with 170K without having to touch the engine.

[damadgeruk]

On 19/08/2016 at 11:45 AM, TomsFocus said:

Leather seats are wipe clean. ideal for any 'accidents'.   Plus they're electrically adjustable and heated...and like hens teeth on the Titanium haha!

Cruise control is quite easy to add yourself, and is probably the one option I couldn't live without lol!  Not sure whether adding that would raise your insurance though.

I must measure it though I'm sure the drivers electric leather on the focus won't go as low as non-electric though I do like the heated leather.

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, damadgeruk said:

none of which had any significant engine issues

On all these forums, it is very easy get a distorted view of car problems. Obviously many folk write in because of some problem or gripe. The list of problems described on this forum can be rather frightening. But it is just the nature of the media.

So It is nice to hear a post where the writer is satisfied with not just one, but four Fords!

I hope it continues that way for you.

[TomsFocus]

People keep mentioning how slow cars were 40 odd years ago...but the difference is there was far less traffic on the road and the majority of cars were slower at the time.  It's all relative!

As for the height of the Titanium leathers, you're probably right, but I've got a lot of leg and very little body so I like having my height adjuster higher than most people.