Revatron Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Hi guys, long time browser but first post on the boards. Looking for some input on a problem I'm having with my Fiesta 1.4 TDCi, 2007 (57). For a while now (3 or so years) my car has occasionally had a problem where it will "hicup" or "jerk" for just a fraction of a second while driving. Didn't matter if you were accelerating or cruising, wet or dry, hot or cold. In the last 6 months it got really bad where it was very often doing this while driving. I've had it in to various garages who couldn't find any fault codes and best they did was replace the fuel filter which made no difference. About 3 weeks ago the hiccups got really bad and eventually driving home the engine went in to limp mode and I got the flashing ! Cog on the dash. The engine and drive was very rough and jerky, I took it to the garage who looked at it next day but it had decided to work again and was running normally. They did plug a diagnostic machine and it gave the code P1203 Cyl 3 injector circuit open/shorted-permanent. The mechanic said he "squeezed all the connections, checked wiring etc" but since it was running again he was reluctant to do more than that. It ran, still "chugging" or "hiccuping" occasionally until last Friday when the same thing happened again - engine limp mode limited to 2000 revs, orange flashing cog with ! In it with "engine fault" on the dash. This time I took the airbox off and checked the connections, no difference on restart - engine fault and limp mode still on. So I very lightly tapped the connectors to the injectors with the end of a screwdriver on the off chance something was loose. Not sure if this helped but the car started and was now out of limp and no warning lights. Still driving very rough with a "cough" or "hicup" from the engine every so often, Up again to the garage who, by the time they got to it, was running fine again. I got it back today and drove a couple of miles to collect my partner from work. Still "coughing" and rough idle. Tonight on the way to the inlaws it AGAIN came up with the fault and warning and into limp mode. I'm at my wits end with this. I am not mechanically minded although I can undertand the technology and theory of a lot of things from research and talking to mechanics. There is no fuel leaking from the injectors so that suggests to me the seals arent going, or am I wrong? The fact that squeezing/tapping the connectors seems to get the car going again perhaps suggests that the problem could be the connection to the injector rather than the injector itself, or am I wrong? As some background, about 2 years ago my ECU failed out of the blue which I had replaced. Unsure if related but the throttle sensor and EGR valve also went during that time which were also replaced. I very much rely on this car to get to work very early in the morning as I am a duty manager, and my partner is pregnant so now it is winter I need to drive her places so she doesn't have to walk in the rain. Can anyone help, or have any input. I'm at my wits end with this. The garage are reluctant to replace the injector as it always seems to run fine up there, even though the same thing keeps happening. Are they mugging me off or actually being a responsible garage by not replacing something they only suspect of being faulty, since injectors are expensive! Any advice very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Revatron said: code P1203 Cyl 3 injector circuit open/shorted-permanent. That is a fairly specific error, relating to an electrical fault somewhere between the ECU & the injector. 3 hours ago, Revatron said: perhaps suggests that the problem could be the connection to the injector rather than the injector itself, The intermittent nature of this suggests a wiring or connector problem. If you do not have a scanner, I would very strongly recommend you get one. Basic ones like the U480 start from under £10. Regularly check for codes after any suspected event, as soon as possible, even if the EML is not on. The more info the better, it may prevent an expensive wrong diagnosis. Repeats of P1203 would be good news, really. Before replacing the injector, I would want to thoroughly check through the wiring & connectors between ECU & injector. That would mean removing the ECU, or at least its cover, and they are usually held on by some security bolt, so it is not all that easy. I you do not have the facilities & experience to drill out bolts & check the wiring, and the garage is unwilling to spend the time doing it, then maybe try phoning round auto-electricians or diesel specialists in your area. But try to check their reputation before committing, there are good ones and bad ones. You may need to travel a bit to find a good one. Why do these things always seem to go wrong when you least want it? I hate that Murphy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I would recommend you read "got an error on your car" on my signature, and look at the modified elm cable and FORSCAN, its a thorough Ford diagnostic tool for about £15... With the electrics, its always a good place to start, by buying "Electrical Contact Cleaner" just disconnect the wiring to each injector, give it a good blast of contact cleaner in each side, and reconnect it. This is a simple "fix" often in connectors where dirt or an oil film may have caused the connection to be loose, even a tiny drop of water in the cold can expand and cause an intermittent connection. Definitely get yourself a modified ELM though, even though its specific to Ford (and Mazda) its a thorough tool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 Thanks both for the information and input. I'm slightly happy to see a suggested wiring fault is likely rather than the actual injector problem. In terms of taking off the connector to the injector to clean it, is that simply remove the airbox, reveal the connectors and disconnect? Do i need to disconnect the battery or anything like that? Also do the injectors run 1-2-3-4 as you look down on the engine or 4-3-2-1? As for the ECU wiring I'm wary of going anywhere near that since my last one broke and it cost about £1000 all in to sort out, or was that a pure fluke and checking wiring to the injector not an issue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Revatron said: Do i need to disconnect the battery or anything like that? Also do the injectors run 1-2-3-4 as you look down on the engine or 4-3-2-1? Providing the ignition has been off for a minute or so, so the pcm is fully shut down, there is no need to disconnect the battery to check injector leads. They will not be powered. On the PSA engines (1.4TDCI, 1.6TDCI, 2.0TDCI), cylinder 1 is the flywheel & gearbox end, cylinder 4 is the aux belt end. On true Ford engines (1.8TDCI), it is the other way round. The French do like to be different! The DTC numbering usually refers to cylinders, not to injector numbers or firing order. ECUs are at least as robust as any other car electronic unit. Normal handling should not be a problem, eg disconnecting a connector. Though do disconnect the battery before handling the unit, as it may have a permanent battery supply, and touch the car body (to earth yourself) before touching any electronic unit. But if you have to drill or grind out a security bolt first, then then could be an element of risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Thanks for the added info. Very much appreciated. I will have a go at cleaning the connectors and see if that helps. Any more than that and I will get in touch with an auto electrician. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 After doing some research based on the input of Tdci-Peter I am wondering if buying a new wiring loom for the injectors would be worth a shot - they are on eBay for around £20-£40. Is it worth trying a used loom in order to rule out wiring or is there a way to test for this with a multi-meter? Would the looms be "plug and play" type or need some sort of setting up, like coding? My theory is if I check/replace the wiring and the problem persists then that more strongly points to an issue with the actual injector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Revatron said: Is it worth trying a used loom in order to rule out wiring or is there a way to test for this with a multi-meter? Would the looms be "plug and play" type or need some sort of setting up, like coding? Testing this wiring with a multimeter would be quite difficult & time consuming. Especially without mating connectors. Looking for intermittent contacts when your test connections are dodgy is a recipe for false results! So the loom replacement might be worth trying. I guess the big lump on the top with a load of cut off wires (on thew photo) is another connector to the main loom. Also, there seems to be something else lurking in that moulding, a camshaft position sensor maybe? I am almost certain that unit needs no setting up, even if it contains a camshaft sensor, they are usually "plug & play" as you say. It is still not testing all the wiring & connectors back to the pcm, but the ones on that loom are probably the most vulnerable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 once again, thanks for the input. I'll see if I can source one and get the cable and Forscan previously suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Revatron said: get the cable and Forscan Just for info, here is my standard blurb about Forscan. I do not know how any Ford owners managed without it! Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196 Forscan works best on a Windows laptop, with a USB ELM. The Tunnelrat one (below) has been reported to work well by several people. Forscan is also available for iOS & Android for some tablets & phones. For a USB ELM327 adapter, seehttp://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992 Wireless ELMs are also available (bluetooth & WiFi), but are often not as reliable as the wired ones. Also they are rare in the "modified" form which is needed to access the 2nd Ford bus system. This 2nd bus is the MS-CAN bus, and links all the car interior electronics like door modules, and the BCM (aka GEM). But a standard ELM will still work with all the Underbonnet Modules (PCM, ABS etc) and with the IC (Instrument Cluster). For an bluetooth wireless ELM, which one user at least says works with Forscan, see the KW902: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-KW902-Bluetooth-Scaner-OBD-Link-OBD2-Diagnose-Interface-Tester-white-UK-/281631334205 The Forscan programme is free (in Windows format) and you can get it from:http://forscan.org/download.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 I've managed to source a decent looking ELM USB cable, hopefully along with Forscan I can get a better idea of what is going on. Also, I have bought an injector loom with all connectors on it to try. I've read about resetting the PCM and Knock values using Forscan. Is this something I should do with the problems I'm having? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 59 minutes ago, Revatron said: resetting the PCM and Knock values using Forscan. Is this something I should do with the problems I'm having I don't know for certain, but I would guess not. That is to speed up adaptation to a new set of injectors. Your problem sounds like an intermittent wiring problem. Resetting learnt values might make it run worse (when working otherwise) until it has re-learnt. It may be something to try as a last ditch thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 Peter you have been a wealth of information. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 I got my cable this weekend and plugged it in to have a look at what was happening. Now I'm no expert and certainly not a mechanic but I noted some interesting things: 1) On clearing fault codes , disconnecting ELM and reconnecting, the P1203 error comes back right away regardless of if the car has been driven or not - I assumed the "short" in the circuit was causing the "cough" and hence there would be no fault code if the engine didn't splutter. This suggests that there may be a constant short somewhere? 2) On live data I can see cylinders 1,2,4 have generally the same reading with 3 always different. Does this back up the short in the wiring somewhere? 3) I have two fault codes relating to the IAT and MAF sensor, possible reasons are again a short/open ground but I wonder if perhaps the fact the air intake which sits right at the lip of the bonnet is currently disconnected is throwing this out? With all the poking about I've been doing under the bonnet I've left this disconnected from the air box/ducting. Since all fault codes seem to suggest a short/open ground circuit does this point to a more likely culprit or am I still in square one? I can't afford too much more money on this hence I'm trying to fault find myself and narrow it down to a point that I can put it to a garage and ask them to fix an issue I've isolated rather than pay for them to fault find which could cost me plenty of units of mechanic time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Revatron said: I have two fault codes relating to the IAT and MAF sensor, possible reasons are again a short/open ground but I wonder if perhaps the fact the air intake which sits right at the lip of the bonnet is currently disconnected is throwing this out? What were the codes? For some sensors, there are two sorts of code, Range/Performance vs. High/Low circuit. High/Low circuit codes are more likely to be hard wiring or sensor failure (out of range) faults. Range/performance faults can be a minor fault (drift etc) in the sensor, poor (but still working) connections, or a fault somewhere else altogether that make the ECU think the sensor might be faulty. Also there are likely to be two IAT sensors. One before the turbo, that may be part of the MAF, and one after the turbo, near the inlet manifold. If the disconnected duct is upstream of the air filter, then I can not see it having any effect. The MAF will be downstream of the air filter. If the MAF was disconnected when the ignition was on at any time, then a MAF DTC, (and an IAT DTC if the IAT is part of the MAF), are likely to have been stored. I had that just the other day when I disconnected my 2nd IAT & just cycled the ignition on to run a test. Dodgy earths, or even dodgy batteries, can cause a wide range of errors. But this all looks a bit too specific & consistent to me, for that. If you have changed the injector loom, and the fault is becoming rather permanent, then I think suspicion must switch back to Injector no.3 itself, unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revatron Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thanks Peter, still haven't got the injector loom in the post to try as a replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snikerman Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Have you found a solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 On 9/9/2017 at 2:54 PM, snikerman said: Have you found a solution? Deenesh has not been on this site since March. I can only assume the Forscan reset worked. I suspect the original diagnosis of faulty injectors (2008/9 batch ending in 3) was correct, and needed replacing. But when replacing all injectors on the 1.8TDCI, the reset procedure is recommended. See: The reset procedure was added in 2014 (version 2.1.18). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonads0 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 On 9/10/2017 at 10:43 PM, Tdci-Peter said: Deenesh has not been on this site since March. I can only assume the Forscan reset worked. I suspect the original diagnosis of faulty injectors (2008/9 batch ending in 3) was correct, and needed replacing. But when replacing all injectors on the 1.8TDCI, the reset procedure is recommended. See: The reset procedure was added in 2014 (version 2.1.18). Hi Peter I was wondering if you could help me. I have the same car and same issue. What’s my best option. I was told by the mechanic that I would need a new wiring loom, I don’t know what it is I’m looking for and he cannot get hold on the part can you help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdci-Peter Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Gonads0 said: I have the same car and same issue. What’s my best option. I was told by the mechanic that I would need a new wiring loom, Deenesh had a Mk6, 2007 Fiesta, and the picture in my post above is for that year. There seem to be quite a few of that type of loom on sale, maybe it has a bad reputation! It does not look like the loom is the same on the Mk7 (2009). I can not find out much about it. This sounds like it might be the right loom: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Ford-Fiesta-Mk7-1-4-Diesel-Zetec-TDCi-70-2008-2012-Wiring-Loom-Engine/703299309 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew687 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Has anybody got sorted then I have the same problem I have about a week to sort the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmantojoin Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Me too! exactly the same problem. would be helpful to hear if anyone were able to solve it without replacing the injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmalc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I’ve been having this exact same problem and been going back and forth to the garage with no luck. The last time it went into limp mode I managed to get it there for them to have a look at and after replacing the fuel injectors and still having the issue they are trying to replace the wiring loom. I have absolutely no car knowledge, do you think the new loom will fix it? 10 plate zetec tdi 1.4 for referenc On 9/24/2019 at 6:54 PM, Tdci-Peter said: Deenesh had a Mk6, 2007 Fiesta, and the picture in my post above is for that year. There seem to be quite a few of that type of loom on sale, maybe it has a bad reputation! It does not look like the loom is the same on the Mk7 (2009). I can not find out much about it. This sounds like it might be the right loom: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Ford-Fiesta-Mk7-1-4-Diesel-Zetec-TDCi-70-2008-2012-Wiring-Loom-Engine/703299309 e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin#95 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Gemma I think it is an electrical problem due to a bad connection. I would first disconnect the connector on the throttle position sensor. Spray contact cleaner or wd40 onto the pins of the throttle body and connector. The connector is on the engine and can get dirt on its pins that can cause the throttle motor to jump causing the car to jerk, but not generate an error code unless the problem in very bad. Pull the lock tab on the connector to release it. You don't need to clean the throttle body inside, just the pins - spray lots of contact cleaner on the pins then plug it back on and push the lock tab down. The throttle body is shown in the blue circle with the connector at the bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atters6385 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Hi, has anyone found a solution to this fault please, I have exactly the same, many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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