Erratic idiling when umder electrical load

[stef123]

hi all,

well ive been playing about with the TPS sensor with no luck, infact it only got worse. the most i adjusted it to was 23.1% and it was close to stalling but... i have made a discovery..

when idling with the ETC at 90-95 degrees the engine runs at about 800rpm and when put under load it drops to 740/750rpm then back to about 800rpm again... but the ETC goes right up to 105 degrees at idle(this doesnt sound right!) and the revs start playing up, dropping to 730rpm and 650rpm when under load.

also noticed the bottom hose to the radiator only gets warm where as the top hose is hot! no sign of the radiator fan coming on either. the temp guage on the dash does not move from the central position.

so i plan on getting a new thermostat and ETC sensor and some new coolant for next weekend and changing the lot and see how it goes? only problem is i dont know how many temp sensors my engine has, i only know of the one in the cylinder head. online automotive have 2 listed for my engine.

[artscot79]

hi all,

well ive been playing about with the TPS sensor with no luck, infact it only got worse. the most i adjusted it to was 23.1% and it was close to stalling but... i have made a discovery..

when idling with the ETC at 90-95 degrees the engine runs at about 800rpm and when put under load it drops to 740/750rpm then back to about 800rpm again... but the ETC goes right up to 105 degrees at idle(this doesnt sound right!) and the revs start playing up, dropping to 730rpm and 650rpm when under load.

also noticed the bottom hose to the radiator only gets warm where as the top hose is hot! no sign of the radiator fan coming on either. the temp guage on the dash does not move from the central position.

so i plan on getting a new thermostat and ETC sensor and some new coolant for next weekend and changing the lot and see how it goes? only problem is i dont know how many temp sensors my engine has, i only know of the one in the cylinder head. online automotive have 2 listed for my engine.

the dash trick will give you the temp readout the thermostat doesnt fully open till 90 degrees and the electric fan should cut in at 98 degrees the bottom hose is warm so the coolants going through is the rad warm its not warm out there so i wouldnt expect it to be that hot the only way to tell is go for a drive about 30mins then let it idle for about 5 minutes now check the bottom hose and the rad seriously i think youre wasting youre time with the thermostat and iot wont effect the idling of the engine anyway i would say take it to a garage and i think they will tekll yoiu theres nowt wrong the revs are well within the specified tolerances ive spoke to a friend from ford today and he has said his words money for nothing that you are throwing money away for nothing and changing a thermostat will make no difference also if one of those sensors is out it will show up on the diagnostics as these are all checked by the computer in a test mode one by one.

to further things my neighbour works for a taxi company who run all fords ibve been there today and ive tried all there cars they all flicker slightly when youre slowing down or stopped at the lights and they are all 6 monthsd old ive showed them this topic and they were all laughing ssaying all fords do that and some pugeots and citroens and toyotas

[stef123]

the dash trick will give you the temp readout the thermostat doesnt fully open till 90 degrees and the electric fan should cut in at 98 degrees the bottom hose is warm so the coolants going through is the rad warm its not warm out there so i wouldnt expect it to be that hot the only way to tell is go for a drive about 30mins then let it idle for about 5 minutes now check the bottom hose and the rad seriously i think youre wasting youre time with the thermostat and iot wont effect the idling of the engine anyway i would say take it to a garage and i think they will tekll yoiu theres nowt wrong the revs are well within the specified tolerances ive spoke to a friend from ford today and he has said his words money for nothing that you are throwing money away for nothing and changing a thermostat will make no difference also if one of those sensors is out it will show up on the diagnostics as these are all checked by the computer in a test mode one by one.

to further things my neighbour works for a taxi company who run all fords ibve been there today and ive tried all there cars they all flicker slightly when youre slowing down or stopped at the lights and they are all 6 monthsd old ive showed them this topic and they were all laughing ssaying all fords do that and some pugeots and citroens and toyotas

im using my scanners live data function to gather all my info.

well from what i have gathered and from my experience, i definetly have a dodgy temp sensor. i would rather waste my time before i waste my money going to a garage anyday!

As for the revs being within specified tolerances, i strongly disagree. no way should my revs be dropping to 650rpm! i can clearly see a pattern also when the temp reaches close to 100 degrees. and if the temp was at 100 degrees my bottom hose would be hot and the radiator fan would be on so that confirms my suspicion of the dodgy temp sensor.

ony reason im doing the thermostat is because i wish to do the coolant so i think for the little money it costs its silly not too and no doubt it will need done at some point.

[stef123]

ordered up a new front lambda sensor, still on the original so i will see if that makes any difference. should be here thursday so i will get it done on friday hopefully it will come out!

[artscot79]

ordered up a new front lambda sensor, still on the original so i will see if that makes any difference. should be here thursday so i will get it done on friday hopefully it will come out!

he official figures show the revs should be 700 plus or minus 50 so anywhere between 650rpm to 750 rpm and i have the tech data book from my work so the idle is correct tyhe focus and mondeo do not idle higher than that when warm only when cold so youre revs are fine take it anywhere and tthose are the official figures for the car radiatior fan should come on between 97 and 98 degrees so i agree with the sensor being faulty

[stef123]

he official figures show the revs should be 700 plus or minus 50 so anywhere between 650rpm to 750 rpm and i have the tech data book from my work so the idle is correct tyhe focus and mondeo do not idle higher than that when warm only when cold so youre revs are fine take it anywhere and tthose are the official figures for the car radiatior fan should come on between 97 and 98 degrees so i agree with the sensor being faulty

i dont doubt you and no offence to you (you might even agree) 650rpm is a f#####n ridiculous idle speed. if mine done that all the time i would need to put my seat on anti vibration mounts! i would be shaking like mad.

[artscot79]

i dont doubt you and no offence to you (you might even agree) 650rpm is a f#####n ridiculous idle speed. if mine done that all the time i would need to put my seat on anti vibration mounts! i would be shaking like mad.

the specified 700 rpm must be youre car mate i can sit at that and it doesnt shake like mad im usually 700rpm according to my mech mate with a heavy load on the engine it will drop to 650rpm and fluctuate since the new idle control valve im 680rpm -750rpm but no violent shaking or anything like that ive been checking all that come into my work and they are all the same the ford manual specifies 700rpm all i can say is if youre car shakes bad at that speed then summats wrong somewhere i agree its silly to idle so low apparently all zetecs are the same and even some newer fords are the same as well the idle fluctuates in time with the load on the engine so ide say have the voltage regulator looked at or a faulty sensor but i can confirm the cars do not shake bad at 650rpm

[artscot79]

the specified 700 rpm must be youre car mate i can sit at that and it doesnt shake like mad im usually 700rpm according to my mech mate with a heavy load on the engine it will drop to 650rpm and fluctuate since the new idle control valve im 680rpm -750rpm but no violent shaking or anything like that ive been checking all that come into my work and they are all the same the ford manual specifies 700rpm all i can say is if youre car shakes bad at that speed then summats wrong somewhere i agree its silly to idle so low apparently all zetecs are the same and even some newer fords are the same as well the idle fluctuates in time with the load on the engine so ide say have the voltage regulator looked at or a faulty sensor but i can confirm the cars do not shake bad at 650rpm

this is from fords official launch pack of the focus......we used high-compression ratios, knock sensing and low idle speeds to deliver a good fuel economy while still maintaining our fun-to-drive criteria and ensuring that all engines meet the most stringent emission standard

[stef123]

this is from fords official launch pack of the focus......we used high-compression ratios, knock sensing and low idle speeds to deliver a good fuel economy while still maintaining our fun-to-drive criteria and ensuring that all engines meet the most stringent emission standard

last time i checked it didnt have a knock sensor. just checked eBay and there is a brand new knock sensor for a 98- october 01 1.6 zetec so it wont fit my engine...

and ive never seen a parts wesite that sells a knock sensor for my car.

[artscot79]

last time i checked it didnt have a knock sensor. just checked ebay and there is a brand new knock sensor for a 98- october 01 1.6 zetec so it wont fit my engine...

and ive never seen a parts wesite that sells a knock sensor for my car.

cetainly the older one does i keep forgetting youres is newer than that try this link its for a mondeo but throws up some interesting stuff http://www.btinterne...rence/Idle.html well i called up a mate whos boss owns bridgeend engine repairs they rebuild etc etc and he said that you can expect the idle to drop to 650 but it should usually sit around 700-750 and he agrees that the lambda sensor sounds suspect but dont expect smooth idle as these cars even brand new just dont have that ford sacrificed smooth higher idling for lower rougher idling but lower emissions but the ecu can be calibrated to run to 800rpm by ford but no doubt they would charge he said if the sensor doesnt sort things you may need to have the ecu software updated by ford this usually solves many issues but there should be no serious vibration at 650rpm if you have and its a itys gonna stall vibration then sensor or software if its through the body and quite bad summat else is up maybe engine mount

[stef123]

cetainly the older one does i keep forgetting youres is newer than that try this link its for a mondeo but throws up some interesting stuff http://www.btinterne...rence/Idle.html well i called up a mate whos boss owns bridgeend engine repairs they rebuild etc etc and he said that you can expect the idle to drop to 650 but it should usually sit around 700-750 and he agrees that the lambda sensor sounds suspect but dont expect smooth idle as these cars even brand new just dont have that ford sacrificed smooth higher idling for lower rougher idling but lower emissions but the ecu can be calibrated to run to 800rpm by ford but no doubt they would charge he said if the sensor doesnt sort things you may need to have the ecu software updated by ford this usually solves many issues but there should be no serious vibration at 650rpm if you have and its a itys gonna stall vibration then sensor or software if its through the body and quite bad summat else is up maybe engine mount

well lets hope the lambda sensor does the trick. i was gonna be changing it for the mot in march anyway as i just passed the emissions last year and ive since had a new cat too so why not for the sake of £30.

[stef123]

well ive changed the lambda sensor, i think i could have unscrewed it by hand! piece of p1ss. old sensor doesnt look too bad. had to file off the locating pins on the new sensor as they didnt line up.

anyway, no real difference apart from it pulls better in 5th from about 60mph onwards. TPS is reading 19.2/19.6% again though so god knows whats going on with that?

im gonna go to eurocar parts tomorow for the new temp sensor and see if that makes any difference, the code reader is still giving me ridiculous temp readings. lights still flicker and car still shakes a little when returning to idle, probably because its dropping to round about 580/600rpm at times.

[artscot79]

well ive changed the lambda sensor, i think i could have unscrewed it by hand! piece of p1ss. old sensor doesnt look too bad. had to file off the locating pins on the new sensor as they didnt line up.

anyway, no real difference apart from it pulls better in 5th from about 60mph onwards. TPS is reading 19.2/19.6% again though so god knows whats going on with that?

im gonna go to eurocar parts tomorow for the new temp sensor and see if that makes any difference, the code reader is still giving me ridiculous temp readings. lights still flicker and car still shakes a little when returning to idle, probably because its dropping to round about 580/600rpm at times.

youre having a hell of a time with it fortunately for me my problem was the emission hose and an idle control valve maybe its time to take it to ford again mate if this temp sensor doesnt work have you had a good look around for vacum hoses that may be bust or leaking maybe you need the software update

[stef123]

youre having a hell of a time with it fortunately for me my problem was the emission hose and an idle control valve maybe its time to take it to ford again mate if this temp sensor doesnt work have you had a good look around for vacum hoses that may be bust or leaking maybe you need the software update

for sure.

ive now got another problem, P0135. heater circuit sensor 1. only comes on when the car has been sitting for 5 minutes after driving.

[artscot79]

for sure.

ive now got another problem, P0135. heater circuit sensor 1. only comes on when the car has been sitting for 5 minutes after driving.

that relates to the 02 sensor heres the link explaining all it sound s like with you cutting the clips its cocked the sensor up http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=NEXT_DTC_P0135

[stef123]

that relates to the 02 sensor heres the link explaining all it sound s like with you cutting the clips its cocked the sensor up http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=NEXT_DTC_P0135

the wires are all still connected, the pins just allign the plug, but it can only go in one way anyway becuase of the clip. put the old one back on and no errors but its not as fast on the code reader.

just disconnected the alternator too, (the ecu plug) and it idles like a dream. put the lights and heated rear screen on, it shakes for a milli second then idles at about 800rpm. plug it back in and its all over the shop again, dipping down to 650rpm. looks like the alternator/regulator has seen better days then?

i also unplugged the evaporative emmissions canister thingy, but it didnt do anything

[artscot79]

the wires are all still connected, the pins just allign the plug, but it can only go in one way anyway becuase of the clip. put the old one back on and no errors but its not as fast on the code reader.

just disconnected the alternator too, (the ecu plug) and it idles like a dream. put the lights and heated rear screen on, it shakes for a milli second then idles at about 800rpm. plug it back in and its all over the shop again, dipping down to 650rpm. looks like the alternator/regulator has seen better days then?

i also unplugged the evaporative emmissions canister thingy, but it didnt do anything

in that case have it checked it may be the smart charge plug with the 3 wires you unplugged thats faulty loose or broken wire and not the actaul alternator if it was the regulator then the rpm would drop all the time you switched something on so if you put the lights on and its 650 then droops and picks back up to 650 its not the regulator ill be honest if you change the alternator then youll still have the same issue hundreds have tried it and it cured nothing checked mine and after a good warm up i idle at 700-750rpm if i switch electrics on it drops a bit then sits back at the normal 700-750 driving anfd stopping at junctions with all electrics on thats headlights rear heater fan on 4 and rear and front fogs 680 for a moment then 700-750 rpm i would take it to ford nad get a second opinion so you dont waaste anymore cash either the 02 sensor you got was faulty or not the one for youre car as it shouldnt throw up a code and you did say the locating pins werent aligned which suggests it may be the wrong one

[Matt_focus_zetec]

Stef did u ever sort ur problem dude

[david295]

Sorry to drag up old thread, but was this problem ever sorted out, am having the same issues.