Keyless Entry on the news again..Is there things that your glad your aint got or had.

[alexp999]

Even with the obd port secured. You could still be vulnerable to signal relay theft which is how they unlock keyless entry cars without triggering the alarm. 

I just keep my keys in a tin, so the signal can't be picked up for either.

[TimST3]

1 minute ago, alexp999 said:

Even with the obd port secured. You could still be vulnerable to signal relay theft which is how they unlock keyless entry cars without triggering the alarm.

Are you sure? I thought that was only keyless entry cars?

[alexp999]

Just now, TimST2 said:

Are you sure? I thought that was only keyless entry cars?

The keys are the same whether you have keyless entry or start. I can't see why they couldn't also fool the car into thinking the key is inside the car if they can fool it in to thinking it's right next to it

[TimST3]

3 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

The keys are the same whether you have keyless entry or start. I can't see why they couldn't also fool the car into thinking the key is inside the car if they can fool it in to thinking it's right next to it

Would that disable the immobiliser and alarm or does that happen when you unlock the car with the buttons on the fob?

[alexp999]

Just now, TimST2 said:

Would that disable the immobilizer and alarm or does that happen when you unlock the car with the buttons on the fob?

When I had alarm problems on a Focus with keyless entry, the alarm would deactivate as soon as it detected the key inside the car. Didn't have to press anything. They may have changed it since, but that was only a 2012 model.

[tef89]

9 hours ago, DG97 said:

One thing I really could do without is auto high beam. It’s a great idea but poor execution. The high beam often switches off too late and in the dark, you can often see the lights of an approaching car from bends or inclines and switch off the high beam in anticipation and the auto high beam will unlikely ever be able to replicate that. So instead of being a convenience feature, it just annoys me more than it helps 🙂 

That's one of the first things I disabled.  I'd read it was a bit hit and miss.

[Jonro2009]

4 hours ago, craig26283 said:

Mine has it and I couldn't care less. I live in an ok area and surely things like this is what insurance is for!

It is but it’s the hassle that comes with it. Your car is gone which is inconvenience number 1. You then have the problem of the insurance company paying out far less than it costs to replace like for like. And most importantly your premium is going to go up next year because you are now classed as a higher risk of it happening again. 

2 hours ago, tef89 said:

That's one of the first things I disabled.  I'd read it was a bit hit and miss.

I wouldn’t go out my way to spec this on a new car and I certainly wouldn’t pay extra for it, however I had it on a courtesy car that I used for a week and it’s was actually very good and pretty consistent. I was never in a position where I felt I could be dazzling anyone. That was on a Kuga.

[jace1969]

The thing is with all this is yes you can tell how what we like and hate and the reasons which can help or make people think again to have it.

I would never have keyless start or entry as i just don't like it and if there is even pouches/bags you can buy to block the signal there is something wrong.

As for adding extra security this should not be the case,we buy a car which is our pride and joy and pay a lot of money and even more to have this added so

the level of security should be A1,if you have the knowledge to get into a car and start it on keyless or even key/fob and steering lock will just take seconds.

I know in this day and age there is always a person trying to make some sort of device for a car to a clone phone etc etc..

Reading a lot on here there is a lot of mix reviews on it but a lot saying they don't like it like me.

Its getting to a stage where a car will start and open off things like finger I.D like a phone on the handle and dash to start,if you can shout at a car inside to ring

what is coming next.

There are some Hateful people out there waiting to get there hands on our cars even if the older car but there still our pride as mine is the older car but my hobby.

[TimST3]

There was no information in the manual or online about whether keyless start cars were as vulnerable as keyless entry cars so when I parked at work I double locked the car from inside using the fob, pressed the clutch, pushed the start button and...

...the doors unlocked, the alarm and immobiliser deactivated and the car started 

So the moral of this story is pull out the OBD fuse to protect the car away from home, and keep your keys in a tin when its parked at home!

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[DG97]

9 hours ago, tef89 said:

That's one of the first things I disabled.  I'd read it was a bit hit and miss.

Yeah it really is, another annoying feature is as it's controlled by a light sensor, if you are in a built up area but the street lights are off, it comes on so you start to dazzle either people on the streets or people in their houses through the window which isn't very courteous

[TomsFocus]

3 hours ago, TimST2 said:

There was no information in the manual or online about whether keyless start cars were as vulnerable as keyless entry cars so when I parked at work I double locked the car from inside using the fob, pressed the clutch, pushed the start button and...

...the doors unlocked, the alarm and immobiliser deactivated and the car started 

So the moral of this story is pull out the OBD fuse to protect the car away from home, and keep your keys in a tin when its parked at home!

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This won't work as a test because the car knows the fob is inside.  Sit in the car and get the wife to deadlock it from outside and walk a few yards away, I bet it doesn't start.

[alexp999]

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

This won't work as a test because the car knows the fob is inside.  Sit in the car and get the wife to deadlock it from outside and walk a few yards away, I bet it doesn't start.

The point is that even with the car locked if the car "thinks" the key is in the car it will start, i.e. if theives boost the signal and get the car to think they key is in the car, it will unlock and start.

 

[TimST3]

The point is that even with the car locked if the car "thinks" the key is in the car it will start, i.e. if theives boost the signal and get the car to think they key is in the car, it will unlock and start.

They would need to smash the window and get in with their box of tricks, then press the clutch and push the start button. It might be that the alarm would disable the car for a period of time having gone off (I think Mk8s do that, not sure about Mk7s).

 

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[TomsFocus]

1 minute ago, alexp999 said:

The point is that even with the car locked if the car "thinks" the key is in the car it will start, i.e. if theives boost the signal and get the car to think they key is in the car, it will unlock and start.

 

It won't unlock, that's the point here...it's only keyless start, not keyless entry.  Yeah if they get in they can start it using the booster, but they'll have to smash a window or copy the unlock signal which is much harder to do without keyless entry as it's only present when you press the button.

The keyless start keys won't even allow an engine start from just outside the drivers door...very annoying when I keep keys in my right pocket and don't want to fully sit in the car to start it lol.

[alexp999]

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It won't unlock, that's the point here...it's only keyless start, not keyless entry.  Yeah if they get in they can start it using the booster, but they'll have to smash a window or copy the unlock signal which is much harder to do without keyless entry as it's only present when you press the button.

The keyless start keys won't even allow an engine start from just outside the drivers door...very annoying when I keep keys in my right pocket and don't want to fully sit in the car to start it lol.

I just wanted people with only keyless start to realise they are still in some part vulnerable to these type of thefts.

It's not as easy/silent because they can't unlock the car with a booster/relay, but even if they triggered the alarm smashing a window, getting their relay device in to the car will quickly shut it up and they can be off.

[Tiexen]

16 hours ago, alexp999 said:

Merged and moved.

FYI this is old news, dug up by the media again because Brexit's gone quiet maybe?

If you are concerned, either have a dealer turn off keyless entry or keep your keys in a metal tin/farday pouch.

Keyless entry Fords don't have keys or keyholes in the door (they are hidden inside the handle and the key is inside the key fob not something you'd want to use every day)

[jace1969]

Is the chip to start the car the same to unlock it if you have both,i have no idea how it works so this is all learning for me.

Say i have keyless start sit in the car and start it can i get out and leave it running and walk off or does the fob have to be in the car.

 

[alexp999]

Just now, jace1969 said:

Is the chip to start the car the same to unlock it if you have both,i have no idea how it works so this is all learning for me.

Say i have keyless start sit in the car and start it can i get out and leave it running and walk off or does the fob have to be in the car.

 

The Ford keyless system is "passive".

By passive it means that the key is "asleep", waiting to be woken up. The car is emitting a low power radio signal, so when you are in range, it wakes the key up and the key broadcasts it's "unlock" code. The car receives it, the car unlocks.

Same thing works in the car, interior radios keep the key awake to detect it's presence.

For safety reasons (say the battery in the key went flat, or it was obstructed by something metal), the car will not stop without the key present, it will just chime and come up with a warning. If the engine stops, it usually allows a restart for a small window, without the key present, but after that, it won't restart without the key.

[jace1969]

The Ford keyless system is "passive".
By passive it means that the key is "asleep", waiting to be woken up. The car is emitting a low power radio signal, so when you are in range, it wakes the key up and the key broadcasts it's "unlock" code. The car receives it, the car unlocks.
Same thing works in the car, interior radios keep the key awake to detect it's presence.
For safety reasons (say the battery in the key went flat, or it was obstructed by something metal), the car will not stop without the key present, it will just chime and come up with a warning. If the engine stops, it usually allows a restart for a small window, without the key present, but after that, it won't restart without the key.

Cheers for clearing that up,so you can start the car and go in the house with the fob like if on your back yard,I had a old ford escort which I could start the car and take the key out the ignition and car still running,even lock it,the day and age where things wasn't knicked so much,how things change.

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[TimST3]

8 hours ago, TimST2 said:

They would need to smash the window and get in with their box of tricks, then press the clutch and push the start button. It might be that the alarm would disable the car for a period of time having gone off (I think Mk8s do that, not sure about Mk7s).

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Here:

Quote

In a statement, Ford said: “Ford Motor Company takes vehicle security seriously and continuously invests in technology to deter theft of, and from, our vehicles.  Additionally a growing issue is the availability of security tools, which should be confined to dealerships and other specialists, being on uncontrolled public sale.  Fords are sold with competitive levels of standard security equipment.

“Every new Fiesta comes with an immobiliser and four out of five series of new Fiesta include a Thatcham category one alarm as standard.  This means that once set the in-built alarm system sounds if the car is entered by person or object, there is movement in the cabin, any attempt is made to raise the car (to remove a wheel or tow it away) or the ignition is brought live without a correctly coded key being present.

“If criminals reach the OBD port (the diagnostic port within the vehicle used by dealer technicians to access the vehicle’s electrical system), any attempt to plug into the car’s diagnostics automatically initiates a 10-minute software lockdown, while the alarm continues to be emitted.

“Further attempts to access the system during lockdown restarts the 10-minute wait period, eliminating the possibility of rapid illegitimate programming of keys for the car via the OBD. Owners of older Fords have the option of fitting the OBD port with a guard to prevent programming of keys.”

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/ford-fiestas-risk-keyless-theft-gangs/

According to the Thatcham website, the Mk7 Fiesta ST has a Category 1 alarm/immobiliser, as do all Mk8 Fiestas.

 

[jace1969]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:24 PM, TimST2 said:

Here:

According to the Thatcham website, the Mk7 Fiesta ST has a Category 1 alarm/immobiliser, as do all Mk8 Fiestas.

 

There is ways round everything these days,making things more easier for us to use like all this keyless stuff could be making it easier for someone to pinch it as in

this case they can clone the code,don't even need to get there hands dirty,even not even brake glass/door lock just press a button.

If they can pinch stuff like Range Rovers and cars of this spec we just have to make it that bit harder but not saying it will stop them just longer to do.

Just makes you think as they say a car is stolen every 5 minutes and its up a lot and its always newer ones.

Has this newer stuff just to help us the day to day person just made it a lot easier,we shouldn't have to see steering locks on 17/18reg ST's and other fords and cars.

Also read in today's paper and app that it showed on CCTV how a thief got into a 60k range in 60 seconds and the key fob was in a protected pouch,they said £80 for the relay.

What locks do a lot use on here anyway and the best,see a lot with the steering wheel ones on.

 

 

[jace1969]

Would you rate this on amazon as seems the Disklok is mad prices which ok its cheap to help stop the thief that bit.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Steering-Universal-Anti-Theft-Adjustable-Self-defense/dp/B0734R66B4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548997905&sr=8-3&keywords=car+security

Far from the best but think i will try one.

I wonder if they ever thought of finger print scanner on the dash like a sensor pad on the button like a phone as well as keyless

start, double protection so then if anyone clones the code they still wont start it.

[Jonro2009]

5 hours ago, jace1969 said:

 

I wonder if they ever thought of finger print scanner on the dash like a sensor pad on the button like a phone as well as keyless

start, double protection so then if anyone clones the code they still wont start it.

Something like that wouldn’t work. 

There would be too many instances where someone other than the owner would be driving (legitimately) - mechanic, friend, recovery driver, valet, police etc

[Jonro2009]

@jace1969 the blue one is a couple of pound cheaper 😉

 

this image made me chuckle......

[jace1969]

Something like that wouldn’t work. 
There would be too many instances where someone other than the owner would be driving (legitimately) - mechanic, friend, recovery driver, valet, police etc

Yes I see,never thought of say garage and stuff but needs something like that so it's like double protection before you start it.
Ordered one of these locks as just cheap while on the back yard just that few more seconds it will take them,good picture lol.

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