Pre-emptive Oil Pump Belt Change on 1.0l Ecoboost 2020 MHEV

[smithgz]

Hi all,

 

I recently purchased a 2020 (70 plate) mhev 1.0l fiesta st line for my son mileage 18k had full ford service and an early first major service was doen before purchase (before i found out about the wet belt issues but the other choice was a pug 208 so I wouldve ended up in the same boat). I was looking at pre emptively changing the oil pump belt to remove the risk of the clogged oil pump screen for 2-3 years at which time likely to move the car on.

I spoke with a Ford dealer and they said it could only be done under a full timing belt change at a cost of £1894. Can anyone advise if this is the case or could just the oil belt be changed or is it a case to do it you may as well do the whole lot as to get to the oil belt the whole engine needs taken out?

[TomsFocus]

The main timing chain needs to be removed in order to reach the oil pump belt.  So the amount of work is the same as a full chain replacement.  You could choose to refit the original chain afterwards to save on parts cost, but I wouldn't recommend that, and I doubt a Ford dealer would allow it either.

[smithgz]

Thanks for quick response I had that nagging feeling that the answer was may as well do the lot as I need to dismantle to get to it. Ok no rush as car is fine. Is there any easier way to check the the oil pump screen by taking the sump off or is that another circca £800 job? Ill start putting some funds aside to cover that job.

[TomsFocus]

5 minutes ago, smithgz said:

Thanks for quick response I had that nagging feeling that the answer was may as well do the lot as I need to dismantle to get to it. Ok no rush as car is fine. Is there any easier way to check the the oil pump screen by taking the sump off or is that another circca £800 job? Ill start putting some funds aside to cover that job.

The sump can be removed fairly easily.  No need to remove the exhaust downpipe on the chain driven 1.0 but will still need to unbolt and support the AC compressor.  Would estimate around an hours labour to remove sump, check strainer and refit sump at a garage.

[smithgz]

Cheers Tomsfocus think I will get that done if its only a couple of hours labour then will likely get it done annually

[DaveT70]

Ford quoting you that much is silly.

That engine has a chain not a wet cam belt

As long as the oil is changed regularly, with the correct oil, it will be OK 

[smithgz]

Was planning on doing theoil and filter every year Dave but good to know the sump is easier to get into as i'll do a check now as its still got cover from the dealer for a couple of months

[smithgz]

Would it be worth getting the Fordcover warranty or are they likely as usual with warranty companies to say its wear and tear even if I have full main dealer service records and main dealer annual oil and oil filter change

[unofix]

29 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Would estimate around an hours labour to remove sump, check strainer and refit sump at a garage.

It would be interesting to know what Ford's official time for that job is. I bet they can drag it out to 3 hours and 2 cups of coffee 🤣

[smithgz]

I’ll let you know what they quote as if there is gunk from the oil pump belt they’ll be getting asked to fix it

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The main timing chain needs to be removed in order to reach the oil pump belt.  So the amount of work is the same as a full chain replacement. 

I think we've discussed this on another thread on here but typically can't find it at the mo!

The topic has been covered on other, Fiesta ST specific, forums and the time for the similarly designed 1.5 triple is about 5.5 hours. I think we discovered that the time for the 1.0 was a bit longer still, so in any event, far from a cheap job.

As you say, it would be illogical to pay for all that work and not replace the chain at the same time.

Apparently you can wiggle the oil pump itself out without removing the chain, but not the oil pump drive belt.

3 hours ago, smithgz said:

 but the other choice was a pug 208 so I wouldve ended up in the same boat). 

Well, you're in a slightly better boat as the PSA Puretech still has a wet cambelt afaik, not a chain like the MHEV.😀

[Rich650]

Surely you can check the oil strainer with a scope to settle your mind? 

[smithgz]

From what I have read you don’t seem to be able to get a scope in to see into it or that may be the belts. I don’t have a scope. The degradation seems to have come from the cam belt not the oil pump belt from the videos I have found may suggest why they changed the cam belt back to a chain. It’s a couple of hundred to pop the sump and check I’ll happily pay that and do a check every year.

[Neb_engineer]

53 minutes ago, smithgz said:

From what I have read you don’t seem to be able to get a scope in to see into it or that may be the belts. I don’t have a scope. The degradation seems to have come from the cam belt not the oil pump belt from the videos I have found may suggest why they changed the cam belt back to a chain. It’s a couple of hundred to pop the sump and check I’ll happily pay that and do a check every year.

From what I have seen it can be from either cam belt or the oil pump belt or both chunking off, as ford has to redesign the mhev 1.0 for timing chain, it's a ***** design putting the oil pump belt behind it, I would have designed it that the chain would be the closest to the block

[smithgz]

20 hours ago, unofix said:

It would be interesting to know what Ford's official time for that job is. I bet they can drag it out to 3 hours and 2 cups of coffee 🤣

We’ll nearly right must just be one cup of coffee 2 hours labour and cost if £324 from a main dealer I’ll go to a local dealer as it doesn’t seem to be a hard job and probably get it for around the £200

[smithgz]

50 minutes ago, Neb_engineer said:

From what I have seen it can be from either cam belt or the oil pump belt or both chunking off, as ford has to redesign the mhev 1.0 for timing chain, it's a ***** design putting the oil pump belt behind it, I would have designed it that the chain would be the closest to the block

Totally agree they never intended for it to be looked at I can only assume.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the oil belt. I’m just gonna factor in an annual check on the oil pump screen alongside annual oil change and filter

[smithgz]

Quick Q. Gonna bite the bullet and take the car into a dealer to get the sump off and the oil pump pick up inspected/cleaned and inspect the belt which I think is visible?

If doing this annually would it pick up a failing belt in time to prevent major damage due to loss of oil pressure? I understand there are no absolutes.

All the other local garages wouldn’t touch the job which I found interesting given I explained it wasn’t to change the belt. Must be they just avoid anything to do with the belt.

I am based near Edinburgh so if anyone knows a non franchise garage that deals with this please pass it on.

[smithgz]

Just wanted to come back on this thread just in case anyone wnated an update or came looking in the future rather than leaving it hanging. Ok so car went in and got them to look at the oil pump. Thankfully its all clear looks very new in fact. Attached some pics which show the timing chain and wet belt and the oil pick up. So for record this is a 70 plate 1.0l MHEV St line 18k miles had two services  by main ford dealer.

 

Cost was £320 labour plus oil and sump sealant.

 

Labour was 2 hours not sure it took that long but worth it if you can get a local garage to do at reduced rates. Could probably come in under £200. I specifically needed a main dealer to do this one in  case there was any thing wrong having just bought it from a main dealer.

 

hopefully this helps anyone in the future

 

 

[Tizer]

A cheaper long term alternative that should work is to monitor the oil Pressure and Duty Cycle at various ambient and oil temperatures and with new and old oil and keep records, then periodically check that the Pressures and Duty Cycles have not changed from the standard figures.

I'm not certain about this but I would have thought that the PCM will always try to maintain the desired pressure for any given load and if the Pick Up Strainer is starting to get blocked then I would expect the Duty Cycle to be higher than expected to compensate.

I'm going to start this myself just before my 6 monthly Oil change in the summer. 

[smithgz]

17 minutes ago, Tizer said:

A cheaper long term alternative that should work is to monitor the Oil Pressure and Duty Cycle at various ambient and Oil temperatures and with new and old Oil and keep records, then periodically check that the Pressures and Duty Cycles have not changed from the standard figures.

I'm not certain about this but I would have thought that the PCM will always try to maintain the desired pressure for any given load and if the Pick Up Strainer is starting to get blocked then I would expect the Duty Cycle to be higher than expected to compensate.

I'm going to start this myself just before my 6 monthly Oil change in the summer. 

Interested how you do this beyond me at present. is this something that can be tracked daily and automated? If manual Im a bit lazy to be honest lol

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, smithgz said:

Interested how you do this beyond me at present. is this something that can be tracked daily and automated? If manual Im a bit lazy to be honest lol

No it would need to be done manually. I have the FORScan App on my phone and often log Live Data for other things. 

I haven't started going down this road yet but when I do I may start a thread for other Dragon Engine readers.

I don't know if these oil Pump only belts are liable to fail suddenly or gradually if they fail at all, and that has not been established yet other than some click bait scare stories.