2011 Focus Zetec S 1.6tdci 109bhp

[KillingJudas]

So.. I'm hoping I can get some advice on this as it's driving me to insanity!

My focus keeps randomly stopping the Turbo boost but works again when the cars turned off and on and you keep the revs/boost up. As soon as the revs go between 1500 and 2k the turbo will not spool .

Boost pressure solenoid replaced, EGR replaced as that had a fault. MAP and MAF replaced with Starline parts.

New Turbo as the GARRETT was leaking from the waste gate and too much play on the turbine GT1544V 

Engine is the DV6TED4.

Bought the car February last year and found out the DPF and EGR had been deleted. Economy is pretty good even with it being in a non fault code limp mode 68mpg.

Some days the revs go up but there's no turbo boost.

The main things that are sticking out for me are that the throttle position never changes when reading live data. It's always stuck at 47%....

Also.. the fuel requirements to the injectors constantly show as maxed out too at 1.84 and doesn't change at different speeds or inclines.

I don't have access to Forscan and I've asked multiple garages and none of them seem to use it 🤷‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

 

Any advice would be very much appreciated. I tried uploading pictures but it keeps saying the files are too big. 

[Tizer]

2 hours ago, KillingJudas said:

don't have access to Forscan

If you have either Smartphone or Windows Laptop then you would be wise to set yourself up with FORScan. 

Your problem may be because of the deletions that were done to the car. 

[unofix]

On 4/7/2024 at 8:59 PM, unofix said:

FORScan (for use with Windows Laptop) : https://forscan.org/download.html

It's what many Ford owners use including some Ford technicians.

vLinker FS, cable for laptop: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-vLinker-Adapter-FORScan-MS-CAN/dp/B0952P4MLP

vLinker FD, for android phone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H82WC8L

vLinker FD+, for iPhone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H8JHWP2

 

Search Tag:   FORScan123

 

[TomsFocus]

There is no wastegate on a VNT turbo.  

Also not sure why you'd replace an EGR that's been mapped out?

And cheap MAFs are usually rubbish.  I'd refit the original or buy a genuine one.

As above, need to find Ford spec fault codes or at least run some live tests with MAP & MAF before going any further.

I suspect the odd fuel injector readings are caused by the remap.

[KillingJudas]

Thanks for the OBD information and advice. I didn't know I could get forscan on my phone. I have an S24 Ultra and sadly don't have a laptop.

The EGR was coming up with EGR A stuck closed which we initially thought was causing the non fault light limp mode. Local garage said to get the EGR done. Didn't fix the issue and then proceeded to charge £160 on top for "trying to fix the problem" with a better remap for DPF and EGR delete... but they couldn't get the remaps to work as the car wouldn't start when they tried their maps. I took it to Yorkshire Remaps and they mapped put the DPF and EGR fine but still kept getting the limp mode kick in up hills or when I've let the revs drop.

I was advised about getting a virgin ECU and having some guy he knew to sort it out with the coding so that any crap map wasn't backed up but actually corrected. He said he'd give me the guys number and never did after multiple calls.

The general info I've had has been that the place that sold me the car had mapped out certain faults so they didn't show up. I've had it tell me all sorts on the topdon and Autel.

EGR A stuck closed

Turbo Overboost (hence the solenoid replacement) which seems to have corrected that.

MAF fault said too much airflow. Changed that and it was corrected. The MAP was replaced with the MAF as when the MAF is disconnected it stops the random jerking I experience and surges. Doesn't stop the turbo randomly cutting out though.

Throttle housing reading doesn't change and someone's ad used ibget a new accelerator position sensor/pedal as the focus mk2 is notorious for that going bad 🤷‍♂️

The turbo definitely has a turbo wastegate actuator on it GT1544V.

It's been a money pit. Starting to think the ECU is completely buggered from the bad DPF delete like you've mentioned.

I'll try and get on it with forscan and the obd reader as I can then post results here for further advice.

Really appreciated you responding 

 

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, KillingJudas said:

Throttle housing reading doesn't change and someone's ad used ibget a new accelerator position sensor/pedal as the focus mk2 is notorious for that going bad

The Throttle Valve on a Diesel car has nothing whatsoever to do with the Accelerator. It shuts off completely to stop the Engine running on, controls the amount of EGR, helps with DPF Regeneration in some cars and on some cars it controls the amount of air going to the Intercooler.

It normally doesn't move during steady speed driving.

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, KillingJudas said:

Thanks for the OBD information and advice. I didn't know I could get forscan on my phone. I have an S24 Ultra and sadly don't have a laptop.

The EGR was coming up with EGR A stuck closed which we initially thought was causing the non fault light limp mode. Local garage said to get the EGR done. Didn't fix the issue and then proceeded to charge £160 on top for "trying to fix the problem" with a better remap for DPF and EGR delete... but they couldn't get the remaps to work as the car wouldn't start when they tried their maps. I took it to Yorkshire Remaps and they mapped put the DPF and EGR fine but still kept getting the limp mode kick in up hills or when I've let the revs drop.

I was advised about getting a virgin ECU and having some guy he knew to sort it out with the coding so that any crap map wasn't backed up but actually corrected. He said he'd give me the guys number and never did after multiple calls.

The general info I've had has been that the place that sold me the car had mapped out certain faults so they didn't show up. I've had it tell me all sorts on the topdon and Autel.

EGR A stuck closed

Turbo Overboost (hence the solenoid replacement) which seems to have corrected that.

MAF fault said too much airflow. Changed that and it was corrected. The MAP was replaced with the MAF as when the MAF is disconnected it stops the random jerking I experience and surges. Doesn't stop the turbo randomly cutting out though.

Throttle housing reading doesn't change and someone's ad used ibget a new accelerator position sensor/pedal as the focus mk2 is notorious for that going bad 🤷‍♂️

The turbo definitely has a turbo wastegate actuator on it GT1544V.

It's been a money pit. Starting to think the ECU is completely buggered from the bad DPF delete like you've mentioned.

I'll try and get on it with forscan and the obd reader as I can then post results here for further advice.

Really appreciated you responding 

 

Ok, it does sound like you were sold a lemon, and other garages have been making it worse ever since.  

Firstly, that is very much not a wastegate actuator.  There is no wastegate on a VNT turbo, the boost control works completely differently.  That actuator controls the VNT vane position on the hot side.  It is not just on or off like a wastegate, but constantly variable.  It is possible that the vane position has not been set up correctly on your new turbo.  If that's causing prolonged overboost or underboost, compared with the ECU's requested boost, that will trigger limp mode.

Disconnecting the MAF makes the car run a default map.  That often just masks other faults, it does not mean the MAF or MAP is the fault.

As Tizer says, the throttle position reading is likely to be for the butterfly valve, not the pedal position.  On a 2011 I don't think you'll have an intercooler bypass so it is just the EGR & anti-shudder valve fitted, but that may have been mapped out with the EGR, which would explain why it doesn't move at all now.  Though if it's stuck half open, that's going to be causing issues.  It would be worth removing the boost pipe to see if it really is stuck half open or not.  Also worth trying to find the live data for the throttle pedal position before replacing it.

How much MOT is left on it out of interest?  My old one eventually failed MOT due to the DPF delete not allowing it to pass the smoke test under the 'new' (at the time) regs.  You would need a very clean remap for a 2011 to pass the current smoke test without a DPF fitted.  The previous owner may have used a 'friendly' garage to pass it.  So that's something else to consider if you haven't had it MOT'd yourself yet.

[KillingJudas]

So... I now have the Forscan Lite and the OBD reader Vlinker FD but it's not throwing up any codes just the U1900 which can be generic. Cleared it and it comes back on.

I did notice on forscan when I was driving that the accelerator doesn't react to what I'm commanding. I was flat out and the APP was showing 75-80 and even dropping on its own to the 40's.

I've had the pipe off to the Throttle housing and the valve doesn't move at all. Isn't it supposed to move when you turn the car on? Goes from closed to open? It doesn't even do that it's always 47% reading and open.

Where is the boost pipe located tried finding pictures but no dice.

Had the turbo oil feed pipe changed the other day from the leaking OEM one and now using a mamba I'd read about on these forums. Now hearing a metallic sucking sound at resting and under load and it's not the turbo...

I didn't know that about the turbo... how do you do go about tuning it? The garages said to me wastegate and the seller said wastegate too so I assumed wastegate 🤷‍♂️ 

[KillingJudas]

Oh my bad the MOT isn't due until March 2025 had it since Feb 2023

Definitely a lemon! I've been slowly fixing stuff on it. I'm a foster carer so need a running car with good mpg as I do a LOT of mileage got a buggered heart too so some days I'm OK doing stuff on the car and others not so much 😬

[Tizer]

35 minutes ago, KillingJudas said:

I've had the pipe off to the Throttle housing and the valve doesn't move at all. Isn't it supposed to move when you turn the car on? Goes from closed to open? It doesn't even do that it's always 47% reading and open.

It should be open when you start the car and when you switch off it should fully close for a few seconds then quickly open and close a few times to shake of any crud. You should be able to hear that and also live monitor it with FORScan. It may be called EGR-TV in FORScan.

39 minutes ago, KillingJudas said:

I did notice on forscan when I was driving that the accelerator doesn't react to what I'm commanding. I was flat out and the APP was showing 75-80 and even dropping on its own to the 40's.

That is strange, did both APP Tracks show the same as each other.

[KillingJudas]

Any advice on how to send you guys the live data I saved?

Shows the MAF readings fluctuating in time with the surges I get and then the turbo drops off a cliff and won't come back up. Tried 3 different MAF sensors and the only one that stopped the fault code was a starline one but didn't stop the jerking/surging.

 

[TomsFocus]

Easiest to take screenshots of the graphs at the point where faults can be seen.  You can also upload Forscan logs but that requires the reader to have Forscan on their device as well.

Good to hear there were no MOT issues with the DPF delete.

When the turbo boost drops and won't return, that is being caused by limp mode.  The VNT vanes default to wide open as a failsafe.

Boost pipes are all of the pipes between the turbo and inlet manifold, via the intercooler.  The one you removed to see the throttle valve is a boost pipe.

Is the mamba rubbing somewhere to cause the metallic sound through vibration?

VNT vanes should be very carefully setup from the factory.  I wouldn't recommend anyone changes the actuator rod length without knowing exactly what they're doing.  It's so easy to cause damage to the vanes if the actuator tries to move them too far.  You would need a remapping type company to check and adjust the rod length.

[Zen23]

So... I now have the Forscan Lite and the OBD reader Vlinker FD but it's not throwing up any codes just the U1900 which can be generic. Cleared it and it comes back on.

U1900 CAN-bus communication fault. But I'm not sure if it would have much affect on your problem. 

As @TomsFocus was saying on your new turbo vnt actuator probably wasn't set up properly. You should be able to see the actuator moving visually and in forscan see the data in % in what position it is.

[KillingJudas]

Super late reply so apologies for that. Finally managed to borrow a laptop to run diagnostics and take screenshots. Hopefully you're able to see them. I wasn't able to recreate the MAF wobble I usually get which causes surging and then a turbo drop off if you don't keep the revs up. I did 0-70mph and kept it sustained and you can see the drop off with the turbo and if I try to floor it again no reaction. Also the TP is never at 100% or even close when I try to boot it.

[KillingJudas]

Also this was showing on the desktop version in comparison to the lite version of forscan

[TomsFocus]

Hmm, can't really see anything unusual there.  The drop-off is limp mode, the vanes are being pulled wide open as failsafe.  But I can't see any reason in the MAP/MAF or fuel pressure for the limp mode to be triggered.

The 02 sensor fault might just be a consequence of the remap.  If there's a PID for that in Forscan, you could try checking that on live data.  Has the car still got the original air intake or has that been modified at all?

[KillingJudas]

Original air intake, all pipes clear and cleaned as well as OEM air filter 🤷‍♂️ definitely no restriction 

What would I look for in Forscan regarding the O2 sensor? Sorry I'm a newbie to using it and navigating. 

[TomsFocus]

1 minute ago, KillingJudas said:

Original air intake, all pipes clear and cleaned as well as OEM air filter 🤷‍♂️ definitely no restriction 

What would I look for in Forscan regarding the O2 sensor? Sorry I'm a newbie to using it and navigating. 

Just run the same sort of driving test again, but with the O2 sensor PID open as well.  You might find that's going out of range at the exact moment the limp mode gets triggered.  (Which is ultimately what we're looking for on these graphs)

The PID will probably be labelled similarly to the fault description, so H02S11 or similar.

[KillingJudas]

Thanks Tom 👌 I'll have a bash tomorrow when I'm home and post.

[KillingJudas]

OK so... I've tried multiple times and I can't find the oxygen sensor or how to find it on forscan. Could this mean it's been deleted from the ECU? 

[TomsFocus]

41 minutes ago, KillingJudas said:

OK so... I've tried multiple times and I can't find the oxygen sensor or how to find it on forscan. Could this mean it's been deleted from the ECU? 

Maybe...but if it was deleted properly, it shouldn't able to trigger a fault code. 🤔

My own Mk2 was earlier than yours.  It didn't have O2 sensors, so I'm not sure whether Forscan can access them.  Tizer might know when he reads this.

[Tizer]

15 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Tizer might know when he reads this.

I think the OP's Engine version was a kind of stopgap one and there were a lot of things that you could not Monitor with FORScan and even with IDS as well.

Even if you could I have never been able to work out what a good reading for an O2 Sensor would look like on a Diesel Engine  given that they run on nan excess of Oxygen all the time.

[TomsFocus]

EGR should limit excess oxygen for much of the time.  Though I agree, I wouldn't know what figures to look for either. 

With the OP's 'rich' fault code we would just have to see how the graph flows compared with other PIDs. 

Of course, without EGR, it must be running 'lean' for 95% of the time.  And even a dodgy remap could only see it running 'rich' under load.  So I'm not convinced that is triggering the limp mode.

 

Part number appears to be 1746971 for the lambda sensor, and it's easy to reach at the top of the DPF can.  If you just want to try another part, that is probably the next one on the list.  Though I'm really not comfortable with recommending that as such.  Not sure what I'd do next if it was mine I'm afraid.

[KillingJudas]

Honestly the cars been a ***** show 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

6 cars in less than 2 years because of dodgy garages. Luckily I've had refunds on most of them.

I cleared the DTC's and they've not come back on yet but still getting the limp mode.

I could have a try with the lamda but the blue wires that connect to it run behind the engine and to a connector which should go into the battery. However... that is disconnected and when connected appears to do nothing 🤷‍♂️ bought it that way without realising as it was staged to look plugged in.

Is it possible to reset the learning values for the MAF and MAP via forscan? Prior to me getting forscan I had only done it by disconnecting the battery. I'm no longer getting overboost and underboost messages.

Checked again for intake blockages and nothing 🤷‍♂️ boost pressure fault hasn't come back but just the limp mode with no warning light. 

I'm still getting surging where it's like the accelerstor pedals being tapped and it only stops when you put more pressure and then the issue goes away but that also causes the turbo to drop off as I saw on the graphs previously. So there could be a couple of issues. 

[Tizer]

23 minutes ago, KillingJudas said:

Is it possible to reset the learning values for the MAF and MAP via forscan?

They are not resettable. I

f the MAP is roughly 100 at Idle and the MAF is somewhere between 5 and 10 at Idle then looking at you screenshots, they are both reading what I would expect while driving.