The Dark Knight Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 I like driving in the snow too, it's like an adventure not knowing if you'll make it home after work lol. Also this is my first car with traction control, not to mention torque vectoring, so will be interesting to see how it fares in the snow (with regular tyres). To be honest Phil, the electronic gizmos don't help, its all about appropriate driving and tyres. The reason we see so many cars with their wheels spinning is not because they lack 4WD, its because they are on summer tyres. There is an argument that in snow, the traction control is better switched off. For the last few winters I had the benefit of a Land Rover (with and without winter tyres) and was fine even in the 2010 snow. I had winter tyres on the ZS last year but it was too mild a winter to get proper snow and have now decided to keep them for the ST and I have backup wheels for the job. I think snow socks are a good idea but would be a pain to fit and remove and you need to remove before driving on cleared roads. As for the question, do we NEED winter tyres in the UK? I would say no. We have too many mild winters to say we NEED them but are they safer all things considered? Yes and that's a fact. Any conditions (not just snow) at +7C or below and they offer superior grip and braking. I had the original Fez ST in the snowy 08/09 winter on normal tyres and it was a bit skittish at times and I know how to drive in snow. Slow down with the gears, keep momentum etc. The problem comes when you have no choice but to stop, especially on a hill. Without winter tyres, it is hugely difficult to get going again. A BMW on winter tyres becomes easily driveable in snow which speaks volumes. Someone I know accepts the cost implications of extra tyres so runs winter tyres all year. This is because the advantages in winter outweigh the disadvantages in summer. Food for thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 And another thing: The new ST has a lot more torque to put down than the old ST so it would be interesting to see if the vectoring control copes with snow. As we know, ABS is confused by snow hence the judder through the pedal when braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 87 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well said Dave, and I'm not expecting the traction control etc to make a big difference. It would be interesting to see what the ESP can do if you hit a patch of black ice, probably not much and I don't really want to find out. But luckily my commute is on mostly well used roads, so I should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Couldn't agree more, if I had the money for a set of wheels and tyres I would definitely use them. I got stuck once in the last 6 years so for me socks are handy for emergency but I would be surprised if I use them. It's all about driving without throttle to get moving, and light throttle when you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't know how to drive to the conditions. I've seen so many approach a junction in the snow and brake expecting to stop!! I was driving my Freelander once in heavy snow (nice and steady) when without warning, a car slid out of a side turning right into my path. I had to break hard and thanks to the winter tyres, I stopped safely. If I had been on the standard M+S all season tyres, I wouldn't have stopped in time. In braking terms, 4x4's are worse than normal cars due to their weight. There are so many fools who think 4WD makes them invincible. Many of them have had to face up to a disciplinary hearing chaired by Mr Tree or Mr Wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Haha do very true, people think 4x4 means all 4 wheels do more to control stopping and forget it's power delivery not braking.... I love seeing those idiots bombing around, it amuses me they are thinking they are walking when in fact they might as well be bombing in a fully laden hgv. I work with all year round tyres and have rarely a problem in winter, I have worked with people using winter tyres and had more problems because they don't take everything into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanW Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think winter tyres have the same effect as 4x4 to some people - they're like a cloak of invincibility, apparently... I don't mind driving in adverse weather conditions - take it easy and if things do go wrong, don't panic! Had 3 incidents in ice & snow. 1. hit a patch of black ice on a bend and slid into a lamp post. Was gutted...it took a layer of dirt off and proved just how dirty the car was lol (speed was 15mph as I approached the bend and between 5 & 10 when I hit the ice) 2. Going around a corner when a car started pulling out (he hadn't seen me, and likewise me -him). Bumpers barely touched 3. Spun out on a dual carriageway. The road had been ploughed and gritted about half hour earlier, no snow but the water had refrozen on the flyover. As I crested the bridge I saw a car sat sideways on in my lane about half way down. Went to change lanes (all clear) and lost the back end. Tried to correct and slid around the car - then smacked into the kerb. Dad just about sha...pooped his pants...me being me asked if he wanted to go again :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Haha that's how you handle a situation 'fancy a go again' lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 87 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's all about driving without throttle to get moving, and light throttle when you do. I find setting off in 2nd works quite well, and then changing up as soon as possible. One time my dad and I cleared away some snow just outside his house so we could build up some momentum to get up the hill :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turvey Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Driving in snow stopped being fun when front wheel drive cars became the norm! Not that I ever did anything I shouldn't do anywhere I shouldn't have been doing it........honest! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The best thing to do in snow is find an empty icy Road away from civilisation and practice. I learned how to handle snow at 11pm one night, no one around throwing my first car from a slip road onto an empty dual carriageway and skidding my car back in control, I have little doubt it saved my bacon once about 3 years ago when I practiced the technique on a water logged motorway and aqua planed my car sideways around a crashed Van at 60mph. Seriously have no doubt if I didn't practice all those years ago I would have driven right through that Van, as to whether or not I came out the other side or not, well... I suspect I wouldn't have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensambrook Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Have any of you lot tried driving a RWD car in the snow? That's not fun at all, I was nearly in tears in my old E46 the last time we had bad snow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Never had the privilege of driving such a vehicle, but I must admit it would be something if I could afford such a car, I would have a small and steady FwD to hand for when it gets bad lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 At the other end of the scale from a RWD car on summer tyres in the snow, we have the fun that is driving a Land Rover (with a special terrain response setting for snow) on winter tyres and driven appropriately. If you use google maps, check out "Old Hill, Ashbourne." I went up there 2 winters ago in the Freelander with winter tyres and it cruised up with no issues at all and the snow was deep and fresh. Only footprints and a snowman existed on there (which I didn't run over ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodkat Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 My old BMW (all three of them) were absolute crap in snow. The one that had traction control was the worst, had to switch it off to get anywhere! Sent from my Gen 1 WAP phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Beemers with winter tyres would be driveable in the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 87 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Driving in snow stopped being fun when front wheel drive cars became the norm! Not that I ever did anything I shouldn't do anywhere I shouldn't have been doing it........honest! ;) I've only ever had FWD cars but certainly had some fun in the snow. A couple of times turning right into a road at what I thought was a safe speed (one time barely moving at all), suddenly noticing the car doesn't want to steer, and after a brief moment of panic it regains grip again lol. My old BMW (all three of them) were absolute crap in snow. The one that had traction control was the worst, had to switch it off to get anywhere! Yeah my dad had a 3 series and had to borrow my old MK6 Fiesta for work when it snowed lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianb Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hahaha, turning the steering wheel and continuing to go forward is always a little heart stopping... Or seeing someone lose control in front of you and you're not 100% sure you're going to stop in time is also another heart stopping moment.. I remember driving to college in the snow years ago and I pulled over to phone my dad (to try and convince him it was too bad for me to go to college - lazy bugger really), he was there saying "it'll be fine, it'll melt this afternoon" etc etc.. then a 4x4 went sliding past me.. I told him I was coming back right then lol...According to a friend college was closed anyway! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 This video not only shows the yawning gap in snow performance with winter tyres over summer tyres but also shows the difference in the rain below +7C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Some remarkable difference really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 87 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 This video not only shows the yawning gap in snow performance with winter tyres over summer tyres but also shows the difference in the rain below +7C. Thanks for sharing that, I didn't know the difference was quite so huge. I think the thing that stood out for me was the braking test on snow from 30 mph, at the point the car with winter tyres had stopped, the one with summer tyres was still doing 25 mph :o I think I'll seriously think of getting winter tyres fitted once temps fall into single figures. Better go look at some prices. Does anyone know if some particular winter tyres are known to be better than others? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Much like summer tyres they all differ but you can compare them on ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 87 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I can't find any to fit the ST. Size is 205/40R17 W 84. Has anyone bought winter tyres in that size before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Phil, check these out (got mine from tyre pneus website): http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60712/continental-contiwintercontact-ts-850 http://wintertyrereviews.co.uk/continental-ts850/ I concede that I bought them for the ZS on 16" so to keep them for the ST, I have invested in a set of alloys for £100 off eBay. They are manky and I'm in the process of getting them refurbed. These tyres get epic reviews all round so its worth seeing if a website has them in stock in ST size or weigh up getting a spare set of rims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 These would fit and are good tyres I reckon: http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres/bridgestone/blizzak-lm-25/205-40-r17-84-h-xl.html EDIT: My tyres in 16" were £350 all in so even with a set of wheels off eBay for £100, its coming out cheaper than these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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