Brake Bleeding sequence/advice

[Albert27]

Hi all,

Completely new to car maintenance but have given it a go to save some money and being fed up of being clueless every time i get a problem.  So far have managed oil filter, pollen filter, air filter, wipers and bulbs.  Next on my hit list is to replace the brake fluid.  I'm pretty confident from watching youtube videos how to do it (have got a pressure bleeder) but am unsure of the sequence?  I have a 2008 Focus estate newer shape with ABS.  Any help would be appreciated.  Also, I understand you start with the furthest bleed nipple away from the MC but where is the MC located?  Is it just under the fluid reservoir?   

Second question:  I can reach the front bleed nipples without taking the wheels off so am going to try and do it that way.  For the rear wheels, I'll need to put the back on axle stands.  This will be the first time i've used them so where is the best place to put them?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TomsFocus]

Hi David,

Yes you are correct, the MC is located front drivers side so start with rear passenger side, rear drivers side, front passenger side, front drivers side.  Though I must admit, it doesn't seem to make any difference in the real world as long as you do them all. 

Be very careful with the nipples, in this cold weather they are even more likely to snap. 

For the rear axle stands, I tend to jack it up under the rear beam so the stands can go on the correct stand/jack points on the sill. Other people may chose to do it differently.

[williamweb]

When using axle stands for the sills,it's a good idea to use these.

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[mac801123]

Here are the safe place's to Jack and use axel stands.

[Albert27]

Thanks for the info guys - really helpful!

[Focusoap]

If you're using an Easybleed type pressurised system don't use more than 20psi and don't forget to keep your master cylinder reservoir topped up all the time you're bleeding/replacing brake fluid. 

Give the brake nipples a good soaking in plus gas etc before you have a go a undoing them and use a decent socket a not an open ended spanner; too easy to round off the nut. If all else fails get a bit of heat on the nipple with a butane type torch but keep clear of the flexible pipes!

If the fluid hasn't been changed for a while there may be some corrosion around the nipple conical seat and it may be a good idea to give it a clean up and clear out the bleed holes as well. Don't forget to disconnect the air pressure before you take the nipple out! There won't be much fluid coming out unpressurised and you take the nipple out completely and give it a good clean and a bit of copper grease before you screw it back in.

Bleed until the brake fluid comes clean and natural colour, about a litre of fluid through should give it a good clean out.

Life is much easier with wheel off!

[Albert27]

1 hour ago, Focusoap said:

If you're using an Easybleed type pressurised system don't use more than 20psi and don't forget to keep your master cylinder reservoir topped up all the time you're bleeding/replacing brake fluid. 

Give the brake nipples a good soaking in plus gas etc before you have a go a undoing them and use a decent socket a not an open ended spanner; too easy to round off the nut. If all else fails get a bit of heat on the nipple with a butane type torch but keep clear of the flexible pipes!

If the fluid hasn't been changed for a while there may be some corrosion around the nipple conical seat and it may be a good idea to give it a clean up and clear out the bleed holes as well. Don't forget to disconnect the air pressure before you take the nipple out! There won't be much fluid coming out unpressurised and you take the nipple out completely and give it a good clean and a bit of copper grease before you screw it back in.

Bleed until the brake fluid comes clean and natural colour, about a litre of fluid through should give it a good clean out.

Life is much easier with wheel off!

Great stuff, thanks for info!  I'm using the sealey brake and clutch bleeding system which keeps the reservoir topped up but i will keep an eye on it this first time.  What is the nipple conical seat?  How would i disconnect the air pressure and why is that important? 

[mjt]

14 hours ago, Albert27 said:

How would i disconnect the air pressure and why is that important?

Are you using the Sealey bleeding kit that's pressurised with a pump? If so just operate the safety valve or slightly loosen the pump to release the pressure.

If you take out a bleed nipple you will see that it has a conical seating machined on the end that seals to a matching seat in the brake cylinder. Obviously if you want to take a nipple out to clean it you need to depressurise the bleeding kit otherwise you'll have fluid squirting out. I'd advise using a brake hose clamp to avoid fluid dribbling out while you're cleaning up the nipple.

[Albert27]

Update:

Ok so I've had the wheel off and the bleed nipples seem to be seized. I haven't applied too much force because i'm worried about snapping them but i'm wondering if i'm not applying enough?  The reason is one of the nipples that won't budge is very obviously new as i had a caliper replaced only 6-8 months ago.  I've today put plusgas on them all and was going to do that for a couple days before attempting again on Saturday.  But what do you gyus reckon, should i use more force?  Or any other advice?  

[williamweb]

Invest in a proper brake nipple spanner"the right tool for the job",always a good idea.You say the caliper is nearly new so the nipple hex head shouldn't be rounded off,the brake spanner will be a nice snug fit assuming you buy the right size.

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[TomsFocus]

To crack them off I always use mole grips now, no chance of rounding them off then.  The chance of snapping is obviously still there though.  It's difficult to say whether you should use more force or not...we don't know how much you're putting on them over the internet lol.

If there's any muck or rust around the nipple its a good idea to give it a wire brush first.

It can also be helpful to break a 'rust seal' by tapping the top of the nipple gently with a light hammer.  Not hard enough to damage it in any way, literally just a tap to break the seal.

[stef123]

If people would tighten them correctly would be half the battle! 

My first choice is usually a 1/4 ratchet and socket to crack them and then use a spanner. 

[Focusoap]

Regular soaking for a day or so with plus gas type fluid should help.

If the nipple(s) look newish then they shouldn't br siezed after a few months. Try tightening a touch before undoing (don't forget it's clockwise to tighten and anti-clockwise to undo. Don't use spanners/ratchets with excessive leverage and make sure they are a good fit on the hexagonal faces. Once they're damaged or rounded a decent set of mole grips is the only option to get a good hold on the nipples. You can get replacements easily.

If all else fails a bit of heat will get them moving. I use a MAPP gas torch which gives plenty of heat locally onto the nipple body projecting from the calliper. Don't get it red hot! The idea is to let the nipple end conduct heat into the threads and burn off the crud and rust. With regular brake fluid changes nipples and threads shouldn't rust because there shouldn't be any water moisture in the fluid encouraging rust but changing is often overlooked for years.

Take it easy and be patient and you should get them moving without shearing them off. Heating as a last resort always works for me even on 30 year old vehicles. Take the wheels off for better access and take extra care to keep the flame away from rubber or plastic bits.

When you put them back make sure they're clean and rust free and stick some copper grease on the threads. They don't need to be over tightened to seal if the seat faces aren't damaged by rust etc. Make sure you fit rubber sealing caps to keep rubbish from getting back in!

Good luck

 

 

[Albert27]

Thanks all - help really appreciated!! 

[Albert27]

Update 2:

Hi guys, I've managed to get the bleed nipples moving on all the wheels using a hammer, plusgas and a combination spanner. Have done the job today - took me 4 hours as i didn't want to rush anything!  As I was working on a slight incline was too scared to have both back wheels off in case disaster struck and the car ended up in next doors garden so did one at a time.  Gave it a road test after and braked as much as i could and all is well.  I've got a couple of questions though now I've done the job.

1) I used 800-900ml of new fluid inc topping up reservoir at the end.  Have I bled for too long or not enough to get all the old fluid out?

2) In the event I didn't bleed all the old fluid out, would it actually matter?

3) I had some fluid left over in the pressure bleeder pipe and the pb reservoir, is it ok to just tip it back in the bottle and use again next time?

Finally, thanks for all the help! I could not have done it without you -  seriously!

[Focusoap]

Good news!

As long as the brake fluid coming out of the nipples before you closed them off was about the same colour as clean brake fluid then don't worry too much. The idea is is to flush as much dirty and water contaminated fluid out of the system (and any entrapped air) to minimise internal corrosion and restore the incompressability of the brake fluid. The more old fluid you get rid of the better but now you've done it once it'll be easier to have another go in a years time. If the fluid in the brake bleeder isn't contaminated you can reuse it. Brake fluid makes good paint stripper so make sure you clean up afterwards.