AUTOMATIC gearbox or POWERSHIFT, you should understand the difference before buying.

[MasterTechTip]

A 2012 2.0 Ecoboost would have the 6DCT450 box in it in. The gearbox needs servicing every 3 years or 37.5k miles

[LiamPope]

Hello,

I have a 2012 S-max 2.0 TDCi 140 PS with the powershift box. A 6DCT450 I understand from this thread? I quite like it - it feels surprisingly like a torque converter auto being very smooth off the line. Much better than similar year VW DSGs I have driven.

Anyway, I'm considering chipping this engine as it is just so damn slow! I have discovered I can change it to the factory 163 PS with the right cable and software which I like the idea of. Then again I can aftermarket chip it to a whisker under 200 which I like even more despite the non-OEM-ness.

My only concerns are can the powershift box take it. I understand the '450' part of the box name to be the torque rating, and the chip I am considering states 386 Nm for the tuned state, so seems well within rating. My concern arises from the knowledge that the S-max diesel that had 200 PS from the factory - the later 2.2 TDCi - didn't use that box. Used a torque converter auto I understand.

Anyone any idea if the box will take this power and torque increase, or I'm asking for trouble? Perhaps capacity wasn't the reason they didn't put this in the 2.2? My box has had the first scheduled service, and will have its second in 15,000 more km.

Cheers!

[TrevorB]

The  450 denotes maximum approved torque by the manufacturer.

Even the later Mk5 diesel Mondeo continued with this same transmission so you will be well within limits

[LiamPope]

Thanks Trevor - appreciated!

Any idea why they used a different box in the 2.2 then?

[TrevorB]

Hi Liam, no, I don't really know why Ford continued with the Aiswan Warner torque converter trans in the 2.2.

However, bear in mind the Mk5 Mondeo diesel models with the twin turbo units produce, IIRC, more torque than the 2.2 diesel engine, but the Mk5 uses the Getrag Powershift DCT450, so you should have no worries

[LiamPope]

Thanks again, Trevor.

From what I can find the Mk5 Mondeo 2.0 TDCi bi-turbo 210 PS, assuming that is the model you refer to, puts out the full 450 Nm, while the old 2.2 was only 420. So if they weren't exploding, and I'm not getting near that, I'll not be worried. Great! 199 PS here I come - that will be a useful kick up the backside for the bus and make it almost worthy of its Titanuim S body kit, sporty interior and 235 width tyres! 🙂

Do you know of any risks with towing with these boxes? I may be planning a caravan in the not too distant future. With all respect I'm taking Dave's colourful horror stories with a massive pinch of salt!

Cheers

[TrevorB]

Hi Liam, yes, I was referring to the Mondeo Mk5 bi-turbo so, as you say, you should be fine.

There certainly are some very true horror stories on the 6DCT450, which is a wet clutch trans but it is a million miles away from the dry clutch model 6DCT250 which was used in lower powered Fords, Renaults and Citroens. The dry 250 one was the one that cost Ford millions in USA with the number of auto fiestas they sold.

The only thing to do to, apart from driving correctly, is to replace oil and filter on 6DCT450 at the correct intervals, every 3 years or 37,500 miles, whichever occurs first.

Personally I would only use genuine oil and filter. 

I don't know of any specific risk re towing but it puts a strain on any motor vehs parts, depending on tow weight etc

Best of luck

[LiamPope]

Cheers. Yes seems most issues with the 450 are maintenance based rather than fundamental durability of the driveline components. Or just bad luck! So I've alleviated my concerns about this power increase with your help - yippee!

One of the reasons I bought my particular car was because the box history was documented, if unusual. It had its first oil change at 60k km but had some failure just out of warranty a bit over 100k. Owner managed to get Ford to sort it under warranty (maybe an easier thing to achieve here in Norway than UK!) and it had another oil and filter change then, plus the fix which I'm not 100% sure about but was sensor related I believe. It's now on 145k with me and will get a change again at 160k.

Most on sale, the owner couldn't tell me gearbox history - no thanks! Auto was wife mandated, by the way.

All I need now is an OEM parts dual exhaust conversion and she'll be sorted!

Thanks 

[TrevorB]

This is quite a good thread to read from the TalkFord Forum.

I had a lot of PM correspondence with the Thread owner over the months and he taught me a hell of a lot. Brilliant guy with an amazing workshop

https://www.talkford.com/threads/powershift-problems.231743/

[akm6982]

Hello All

Apologies in advance for posting this question here and if I’ve missed the answer somewhere, also please do let me know if I need to go elsewhere with this question.

I’m looking to purchase a 2011 Mondeo Titanium X Sport 2.2 TDCi Automatic and was wondering if there was a way to tell what type of Gearbox this had - A powershift or Non-powershift one?

I have been advised about trying to avoid the powershift boxes due to potential problems with them.

Would really appreciate any help or advice anyone can provide.

Many Thanks in Advance

[unofix]

Well one quick way is that None Power Shift boxes will have no logo on the selector.

Some, but not all "Power Shift" boxes do have a logo on the selector

[akm6982]

Hello Unofix

Many thanks for the reply and info, much appreciated.

I think what ‘throws me’ a bit are the listings on Auto Trader / eBay - the main listings for some of these autos are listed as powershift but the pics of the selectors doesn’t have the word ‘Power Shift’ on them, exactly as you stated. 

Forgot to mention that I did try to check the Ford Etis site with the reg number of the vehicle but couldn’t see where it would list the info for type of gearbox. 

[iantt]

17 minutes ago, akm6982 said:

Hello Unofix

Many thanks for the reply and info, much appreciated.

I think what ‘throws me’ a bit are the listings on Auto Trader / eBay - the main listings for some of these autos are listed as powershift but the pics of the selectors doesn’t have the word ‘Power Shift’ on them, exactly as you stated. 

Forgot to mention that I did try to check the Ford Etis site with the reg number of the vehicle but couldn’t see where it would list the info for type of gearbox. 

PM me the reg no or post on here and I can check. 

[akm6982]

Hello Iantt

Many Thanks for your help, I have PM’d you. 🙂

[iantt]

So, it's not powershift. It's awf21 auto 

[akm6982]

Many thanks for that Iantt, really appreciate your help on this - saves me travelling all the way down there to see the car and finding out it’s powershift…..

I have had Fords in the past and the wife won’t drive anything else and as I’ve been using her car as my current car is ready for the scrapyard, I think Ford is the way to go 👍🏽

[TrevorB]

Only just seen your post

The 2.2 diesel is the odd one out - the 2.2 diesel retains a normal type torque converter transmission manufactured by Aisin Warner - no official service intervals and quite a good transmission- ok to purchase if have to buy a ***** soot chucker!!!

[akm6982]

Hello TrevorB

Many thanks for your reply, apologies for this late response, been a bit busy.

Certainly puts the mind at ease it’s the TC type gearbox 👍🏽

[Alison Griffiths]

Hi all.  I read on this thread that the DCT450 MPS6 needs regular servicing.  How would I have known this when buying my car second hand from a Ford franchise dealer?  The car had been serviced by them for previous keeper who bought it from new and who does not recall being "recommended" to have this done in the five years they had it.  When I bought it, and if it still had been done when the previous keeper sold it back to them, would it have been an important point to tell me, or reasonable for them to have done it when prepping the car for sale?  By 2018 they must have know about the issues the Power was having?  Why sell me a car knowing there was such clear possibility that the clutch etc was going to fail and cost thousands to fix? Bigger point is if the Powershift needed servicing every 37,000 miles, it should have been done once at least before I bought it 56,000 miles, and in 4 years I've only added 10,000 miles.  service Manager said every year or 12,000 miles.  Even Ford don't have a consistent answer!! My local garage who has serviced my previous cars for years did not offer it when they serviced it because my mileage was so low in the 3 services after I bought it.  Does it mention the need to do it in the car's service record?  Cheers. 

[TrevorB]

Ok, need some info first.

Most importantly - what size engine is in your vehicle and is it petrol or diesel - when I know that I can respond accordingly

You may not want to post it on this open forum, if you don't, send me a PM with your veh registration number and I will look at the build information on Fords ETIS site

[DaveT70]

16 hours ago, Alison Griffiths said:

Hi all.  I read on this thread that the DCT450 MPS6 needs regular servicing.  How would I have known this when buying my car second hand from a Ford franchise dealer?  The car had been serviced by them for previous keeper who bought it from new and who does not recall being "recommended" to have this done in the five years they had it.  When I bought it, and if it still had been done when the previous keeper sold it back to them, would it have been an important point to tell me, or reasonable for them to have done it when prepping the car for sale?  By 2018 they must have know about the issues the Power was having?  Why sell me a car knowing there was such clear possibility that the clutch etc was going to fail and cost thousands to fix? Bigger point is if the Powershift needed servicing every 37,000 miles, it should have been done once at least before I bought it 56,000 miles, and in 4 years I've only added 10,000 miles.  Service Manager said every year or 12,000 miles.  Even Ford don't have a consistent answer!! My local garage who has serviced my previous cars for years did not offer it when they serviced it because my mileage was so low in the 3 services after I bought it.  Does it mention the need to do it in the car's service record?  Cheers. 

Alison, have you changed the battery yet and re-set the modules? Yours is a dry clutch

[TrevorB]

Only just noticed, looks like Alison is sending people round in circles. I now see there is already at least one other thread from Alison on this (one with 29 replies).

Alison, I can't see anywhere that states what engine size you have in your veh so how can anyone know what powershift model you have.

You really need to answer my question that I posted last night to gain correct/answers

I would strongly recommend you do as DaveT70 suggests - the battery can/could be the cause of your problem

I have just attended to a friends car, a 2013 1.3 petrol auto, which, because it is a smaller engine petrol model, means it is a DRY clutch transmission that does NOT require an oil and filter change at any time. I replaced the battery and it fixed the problem

 

[DaveT70]

Just now, TrevorB said:

Looks like Alison is sending people round in circles. I now see there is already at least one other thread from Alison on this (one with 29 replies).

Alison, I can't see anywhere that states what engine size you have in your veh so how can anyone know what powershift model you have.

You really need to answer my question that I posted last night to gain correct/answers

I would strongly recommend you do as DaveT70 suggests - the battery can/could be the cause of your problem

I have just attended to a friends car, a 2013 1.3 petrol auto, which, because it is a smaller engine petrol model, means it is a DRY clutch transmission that does NOT require an oil and filter change at any time. I replaced the battery and it fixed the problem

 

Yep, the advice I have given her will fix it. Dealer is scamming a new box out of her but the only fault codes are power related.

New battery, clean earth points and a reset will cure it, but it looks as if it's falling on deaf ears. I give up

[Alison Griffiths]

Hi all.  I'm really very sorry if I'm sending you round in circles.  My Mam passed away in November after long illness.  I'm struggling and car is last straw.  Car is 2 litre.  Advice not falling on deaf ears.  Car is stuck in first gear outside main dealer service so I'm having trouble getting it moved back to me before I can sort out the battery and reprogramming.  I may just buy battery and try to fit it outside their premises.  That should cause a stir!! 

[unofix]

Hi Alison sorry to hear you lost your Mam (are you originally from the North East ?), I know it will have added extra strain to your current problem.

Just want to confirm your car is a 2.0 litre, is it diesel ?