Induction kit vs stock airbox with high flow panel filter

[Iain M]

Alright guys,

Currently running an Airtec induction kit with primary & secondary SD hoses. The sound is nice & blowoff is louder, but I swear it feels a little bit sluggish compared to stock airbox. Car isnt mapped yet. Considering going back to stock with high flow filter. Anyone else have same setup? MK8 ST Line 140ps

[ThaiFiesta]

Warm air = less power. 

[Tekno]

Hi flow panel filters poor sound poor filtration (more muck in engine) very small performance boost. COLD AIR INDUCTION KIT better sound better performance better filtration.

[ThaiFiesta]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:49 PM, Tekno said:

Hi flow panel filters poor sound poor filtration (more muck in engine) very small performance boost. COLD AIR INDUCTION KIT better sound better performance better filtration.

Most hi flow panel filters are made from the same material as CAI cone filters 🤔

Most CAI kits don’t adequately isolate warm engine bay air, therefore should be marketed as Warm Air Induction kits. Warm = less dense therefore less fuel for the correct ratio therefore less power. 

[Tekno]

20 minutes ago, ThaiFiesta said:

Most hi flow panel filters are made from the same material as CAI cone filters 🤔

Most CAI kits don’t adequately isolate warm engine bay air, therefore should be marketed as Warm Air Induction kits. Warm = less dense therefore less fuel for the correct ratio therefore less power. 

All panel filters if laid out have less material hence less filtration cone filters can have double the surface area allowing for more filtration and air flow and more o2 per million.

Panel filters on average between 1/2 bhp to about 10 bhp extra at best depending on setup Cold Air Induction start at about 15bhp and up depending on setup also have a much better sound more throat to them a true cold air induction kit will remove the original box and you will fit new scoop and a cone filter inside a new completely sealed box allowing for true cold air induction about £150 plus from reputable supplier.

An eBay special induction kit is a warm air induction kit no box or poor box with no insulating about £30-60 

Side not the OE filter boxes are not as good at dissipating heat as carbon fibre induction boxes. 

25 years experience as a mechanical engineer specialising in the automotive sector with to many qualifications to list, i don't want to get in an argument with anyone but scientific fact is scientific fact.

[ThaiFiesta]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:58 PM, Tekno said:

All panel filters if laid out have less material hence less filtration cone filters can have double the surface area allowing for more filtration and air flow and more o2 per million.

Panel filters on average between 1/2 bhp to about 10 bhp extra at best depending on setup Cold Air Induction start at about 15bhp and up depending on setup also have a much better sound more throat to them a true cold air induction kit will remove the original box and you will fit new scoop and a cone filter inside a new completely sealed box allowing for true cold air induction about £150 plus from reputable supplier.

An ebay special induction kit is a warm air induction kit no box or poor box with no insulating about £30-60 

Side not the OE filter boxes are not as good at dissipating heat as carbon fibre induction boxes. 

25 years experience as a mechanical engineer specialising in the automotive sector with to many qualifications to list, i don't want to get in an argument with anyone but scientific fact is scientific fact.

Not going to argue the science. But if the OEM airbox and panel filter is adequate for the 215PS ST 1.6 4 cylinder turbo, then it’s probably more than enough for a 1.0 😂

And you’ve supported exactly what I said about CAIs. 

[Guy Heaton]

Back in the day you could get good gains with a closed IK and cold air feed.

But that was back when noone cared about emissions or mpg so much, and manufacturers didn't need to worry about a good intake.

These days most cars have a good cold intake feed from the grille anyway, so gains are smaller.

[Eliterox]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:58 PM, Tekno said:

All panel filters if laid out have less material hence less filtration cone filters can have double the surface area allowing for more filtration and air flow and more o2 per million.

Panel filters on average between 1/2 bhp to about 10 bhp extra at best depending on setup Cold Air Induction start at about 15bhp and up depending on setup also have a much better sound more throat to them a true cold air induction kit will remove the original box and you will fit new scoop and a cone filter inside a new completely sealed box allowing for true cold air induction about £150 plus from reputable supplier.

An ebay special induction kit is a warm air induction kit no box or poor box with no insulating about £30-60 

Side not the OE filter boxes are not as good at dissipating heat as carbon fibre induction boxes. 

25 years experience as a mechanical engineer specialising in the automotive sector with to many qualifications to list, i don't want to get in an argument with anyone but scientific fact is scientific fact.

You can’t make bhp assumptions based on the filter design. This would need testing with very specific equipment. Instant 15bhp from just installing a CAI? Cool story bro. Only “benefit” from a cone filter is a louder induction while sacrificing performance on a stock vehicle.

The plastic air box is fine, it is dense enough to insulate the flowing air from heating. Carbon fiber is used on high cost vehicles for weight reduction while maintaining structural rigidity.
 

 

[Tekno]

Firstly I wasnt suggesting that you spend thousands of pounds on a new system just giving you another side to the coin.

Secondly I'm not making assumptions I picked 1 engine type and check on the mapping software systems and used a average for that engine type based on leading filter specs vs a high quality (non eBay cheap crap) induction kit. 

Let's try this again in laymen terms.

A flter that allows X flow per min will not be able to give the same performance gains as a larger flow per min filter (think of small straw vs a hose pipe for example), given a carbon fiber heat resistant induction system made for the vehicle specifically and designed by a highly complex computer algorithm, not some crap high reverberation universal tube made from some cheap aluminium that causes high turbulence in the air flow system (again cheap eBay items and Halfords junk). That should be basic enough for anyone not in the industry of automotive engineering and design. 

Stock boxes are adequit for anyone who wants to stay in the stage 1-2 bracket but not if you looking to go further. I would imaging most people would also want to argue a forged engine set up won't make a difference either but it make huge differences in what you can put through a car for instance you can push most stock vehicles massively higher in bhp with new turbos intake systems and maps but forgetting that the internals of the engine have a vibration/ heat limits with out fitting forged components its a mear ticking time bomb before things go horribly wrong I can't tell you how many blown up civics, golf's, focus rs and   I have seen pushing 600+bhp that have basicly melted inside or shaken to pices down to people not knowing what they are doing and just taking people's money with no remorse. 

Again a stock panel filter and a performance panel filter have very little differences but if you want a better sound or want to have some real fun go for a proper induction kit. 

Oh and a 1.6 engine is four pot and the 1.0 ecobost is three the intake system is different 😉

[ThaiFiesta]

On 11/16/2019 at 6:34 AM, Tekno said:

Oh and a 1.6 engine is four pot and the 1.0 ecobost is three the intake system is different 

The lower airbox and filter are identical. Hence the Mountune replacement being interchangeable between the 2 models 🤔. If the filter passes enough air for the 1.6, it will certainly be adequate for the 1.0. Hence my point of a CAI being a waste of money in this case. 

[Tekno]

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I had the idea from references such as below (from "Car"magazine), that it was the Mountune and ST200 boxes that were similar/interchangeable, not the 1.0 and 1.6?

 

"This brings the ST200’s actual potency up to the same level as the Fiesta ST Mountune tuning kit.

That too sounds somewhat fishy…

Indeed. You probably won’t be surprised to learn that Ford and Mountune worked very closely together when developing the original Mountune kit – to such an extent in fact that, according to the ST200’s programme chief, the intellectual property rights remained with Ford. This allowed it to easily implement a similar strategy of intake mods and software jiggery-pokery in this instance.

Mountune remains Ford’s officially endorsed partner, however, so don’t think there’s been a falling out."

[MarksST]

2 hours ago, Tekno said:

Well done, youve got the mk8 1.0l intake and the mk7 ST intake. The 1.6 and 1.0 mk7 airbox bottom part, snorkel and filter are thesame, both cars can use the Mountune metal box or the ST200 box.