Rough Idle On A 2004 2.0 Tdci

[Stoney871]

May be the car just needed time to settle down with a reset ECU.

It does need to relearn your driving style and various parameters from car sensors so maybe was just a hangfire.

[plumbob]

The issue has been with the car since i bought it which iam beginning to feel like was a mistake, i gave 3k for it 77k on the clock fsh, t&t e.t.c but if i had realised ALL of the potential problems that can cause such engine running issues i would have stayed away.

Just an update on things, i managed to get the self diagnostic to work as you have to press the odometer trip button and not the trip button on the indicator stick. I have a DTC code 9318 which from what i have found is just a battery code so nothing of any real use.

Just out of interest does anyone know what the ford diagnostic test provide? just a fault error read, update e.t.c or are they suppose to find the fault regardless of what or where it might be on the engine.

[Z3 MON]

Plumbob keep us up to date :)

[Stoney871]

The Self Diagnostics Mode gives you in-depth information about your

engine and the actual numbers in digital. To use it, follow the steps:

* Insert Key but do not turn it on

* Press and hold the Trip Meter Reset Button

* While holding the reset button, Turn ignition until dash lights come on and

continue holding the button

* Within 10 seconds, the display should change to "test" in LCD font

and the needles will do a full sweeping. Release the Button

Pressing the button will now cycle through some 17 different modes

* 1. Shows a Gauge Sweep

* 2. Shows all 8's on the LCD (LCD TEST)

* 3. Illuminates all the bulbs on the dash

* 4. Displays hexadecimal value for ROM level

* 5. Displays the hexadecimal value for EE level

* 6. Shows DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code)

* 7. Digital Speedometer - mph

* 8. Digital Speedometer - kph

* 9. N/A

* 10. Digital tachometer

* 11. Fuel volume

* 12. Engine coolant temperature

* 13. battery voltage

* 14. ABS fail

* 15. Electronic brake distribution (EBD) failure

* 16. Illumination

* 17. Crank Sense

[plumbob]

o.k here todays work, had to cancel the ford diagnostic for tomorrow as i wont be able to make it.

Picked up the parts to service it so i changed the air filter and the fuel filter, it does run slightly better but it still is chugging so only a small improvement.

EDIT: further update, i have just tested the EGR valve diaphragm (or atleast i think i have), i had read that you can just pull off the vacuum pipe to the EGR and just suck hard until the valve moved and thus causing or not causing the engine to run rough. This of course would show whether the EGR diaphragm was working or not, well i just couldn't manage (in my opinion) to suck hard enough, so before the jokes begin :D i did manage to find something that would fit snugly in the pipe and allowed me to build up quite a vacuum.

this little fella did the job very well and i was fighting to keep my tongue and lips from being sucked into the tube so i would imagine the vacuum i created was enough to move the diaphragm BUT no change to the engine what so ever, the same chug as if i was sucking on a bolt that was holding one of the struts on so the next step is to make a temporary blanking plate so i will update you all as things progress.

[Z3 MON]

im thinking yours is a different issue to mine, although ive not done this test to be fair :S i probably should have.

also a little update, that whooshing noise i had, i was thinking how best to describe it, but its more of a tubular noise if that makes sense.....

Dave

[Z3 MON]

just to recap, this is where i am now

2004 mk3 euro 4 engine (i think) mondeo 2.0l tdci.

83,000

so far its had:

new idle pulley, crank pully and aux tensioner and belt

fuel filtre

air filter

ecu reset

2x different injection cleaners

was using cheap fule now using shell/bp

EGR valve stripped and re fitted

(it also looks like its had 2xnew injectors and new fuel lines by the fuel filter before i owned it)

Its a previous cat C writed off with rear end passenger side damage.

Symptoms:

chuging idle with a distinct off fire, EML/Glow loigh if accelerating more than 50% engine load @ 2100rpm or more in 3rd gear or above.

no smoke, seems to be doing better on diesel than my old petrol almera, there is a smell but unsure if its diesel or oil burning or clutch burning or what. The EML/Glow light didnt start showing itself untill after the aux tensioner was fitted. There is a tubular kind of noise from about 1400-1800rpm

When i cleaned the egr valve it ran great for about 5 minutes on idle, when i had the fuel filter changed it was the same, ran great for 5 minutes. the new crank pulley got rid of a lot of noise. She does not smoke at all from what i can tell, even when foot down (provided eml light doesnt come uo)

also the code is P0251 - fuel metering issue.

checked the fuel pump, it sounds fine and i dont really have any starting issues, also no particules in the fuel filter.

thanks

Dave

[Stoney871]

Seeing that it had rear damage maybe something shifted in the fuel tank.

[pragmatix]

Seeing that it had rear damage maybe something shifted in the fuel tank.

If thats happened could be a kinked or trapped fuel line

[Stoney871]

If thats happened could be a kinked or trapped fuel line

That would definitely cause fuel starvation.

Fuel in the pipes starts the engine, revs pick up and the fuel supply is too low to sustain the demand, engine stops - fuel slowly refills the pipe and problem repeats.

Seeing as it seems to be behaving like an airlock in the pipe i reckon that a twisted or kinked fuel supply pipe could well be the cause.

Could even be damaged inside the tank where it's out of sight.

The weight of the tank plus fuel would have quite a lot of inertia when being shunted forward.

I'd check the fuel filler overflow pipe for kinks too as it could be causing excess vacuum in the tank which is stopping the pump from drawing fuel evenly.

[Z3 MON]

I'll check this out later today. Thanks guys.....

[turbine]

Dave, common sense says to this Engineer that this dratted car should have a pressure (vacuum!) sensor near the fuel filter. Annoyingly it doesn't, but if it did It would tell you that the LP side is OK.

Can some Garage Mechanic or 'Guru' tell us what the 'suction' should be (ie mm Hg etc) to get the fuel to the filter?

If so a cheap mercury manometer or gauge could prove that Dave's LP side is working OK and no air leaks !!

[plumbob]

Todays update: Borrowed friends vacuum pump and found that the EGR wasn't moving, removed and cleaned again and noticed that the valve was not moving very well. Infact when i fully depressed it the valve would not come back so i sprayed the shaft with some WD40 and worked it until it was smooth and then i retested it with the vac pump and it was fine.

Engine sound is similar to a small intermittent mis-fire in a petrol engine, the tick over has settled down alot since i have carried out all the cleaning/work and is pretty stable now at about 800-820 but the chug remains.

I started it to day and i actually had about 20-30 seconds of a slightly higher tick over ( 900 rpm ) and then it quickly reverted to its usual thomas the tank engine impression so i have thrown in the towel and booked myself in a fords this coming tuesday.

[Z3 MON]

I've heard the issue could be a thortlr position sensor. Any ideas where this is located and what it looks like???

[s.jsutton]

Think this should be on the throttle peddle assemply, its all fly by wire now, no cables.

[Stoney871]

It should look something like this one-

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item256af65c58

And will be connected directly to the pedal assembly.

[s.jsutton]

Hi Stoney.

Is this just a straight swap part, or is there any silly programming / coding involved?

Regards

Simon

[Stoney871]

Should be a straight swap, just make sure you have full pedal movement after fitting and it is recommended you mark the sensor with a small line so as to note one refitting as Haynes says that Ford recommends you not unplug the connector more than 10 times due to the risk of damage to the contacts.

[Z3 MON]

Would dirty electrical connections on the injectors give my symptoms....

[plumbob]

Pull the injector plug out and there should be a seal on the plug, have a look inside i expect it will be clean.

Today i started mine in the hope that i might get a repeat of yesterday and i did get just that, 25-30 seconds of very good idling then back to the same old chug but something i did notice was that a noise from the right side injectors appeared at the same time as the chug started.

I have recorded it and if you ignore the usual diesel engine sound you will hear a different noise that sounds like it might be a faulty injector.

[Z3 MON]

Right I took the plugs off 1 has half the plastic broken 2 has no seal and the other 2 were ok but dirty, cleaned them but one needs replacing, made no difference.

Banked egr, worked for a couple minutes then back to how it was .

I couldn't see all the fuel lines because it got dark but I think the tank has moved from the accident

[b44dam]

I have A 2002 mondeo zetec-s tdci and on idle it sounds asif it has a petrrol mis-fire, and yes as said one of the injectors has a noise everytime it chugs and best way to describe it is a sort of buzzing noise...?

i cant believe no1 has a solution to this problem yet, there seems to be quite a few with the issue with no sucess, but i have heard of an update available for the ecu with fiddles about with fuel pressure etc to give better running and smoother idle etc, i am in the prcess of finding some1 that will do this as im not prepared to pay ford prices if this will not solve it.

Has any1 actualy tried having their car re-mapped or the injectors re-colabarated? (excuse the spelling)

adam

[Z3 MON]

If your getting a buzz then the injector buzzing needs to be replaced. I'm not gettin a buzz I'm get pings across all the injectors but that normal I've been told??

[b44dam]

call me stupid, but has any1 tried changing the fuel pressure regulator sensor? or the crank shaft sensor? as these can cause the engine to run funnty, and also if one is not sending a reading or a has a weak signal, it can cause the car to go into 'limp mode' to protect the engine and could also cause rough idle. adam

[plumbob]

Mine is alot better than when i first got it as the idle is pretty stable now and it does run for 25-30 seconds from cold without any real misfire but after that short period it starts to chug, is difficult to start from warm and will chug straight away if the engine is warm.

As i have no idea what could defiantly cause this then i see no point in changing parts for the sake of it, i am just going to wait till i get a diagnosis from ford on tuesday.

In regards to the software update you may find that only ford can do that so if that is the case you might aswell get them to do a diagnostic at the same time.