Time to change ??

[Eric Bloodaxe]

We're doing our usual trick here, veering (ever so slightly) off topic!

To get vaguely back on track, Ian's miles/kwh figures, and those of other users on that Ioniq forum I stumbled on, are certainly food for thought.

All far above the norm of around 3.5 miles/kwh I see quoted in road test reviews. I'm wondering if it's the same thing as in ICE reviews, where the testers get a test average of, say, 35mpg out of a car that most of us would easily average 45 in. 

I was going to suggest it could be that EVs take more getting used to, and maybe require a longer period of acclimatization than most reviewers have available, but then Ian seems to have cracked it very quickly indeed!

 

[iantt]

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

We're doing our usual trick here, veering (ever so slightly) off topic!

To get vaguely back on track, Ian's miles/kwh figures, and those of other users on that Ioniq forum I stumbled on, are certainly food for thought.

All far above the norm of around 3.5 miles/kwh I see quoted in road test reviews. I'm wondering if it's the same thing as in ICE reviews, where the testers get a test average of, say, 35mpg out of a car that most of us would easily average 45 in. 

I was going to suggest it could be that EVs take more getting used to, and maybe require a longer period of acclimatization than most reviewers have available, but then Ian seems to have cracked it very quickly indeed!

 

I'm finding it coasts for such a long time after taking foot off accelerator , no engine braking and very little resistance in the motor/reduction gear to the wheels. 

6.6miles/kWh tonight, that's in the dark, well I mean it's dark but I've got the lights on before anyone says I'm driving in the dark to save energy. Lol 

So lights on , heater on 20c , heated rear window on to demist , 14c outside . Think the drop in miles will come when I take 98mile trip each way to other side of Derby In a few weeks . A46, M42,a38. So plenty of high speed dual carriageway/motorway . I'm guessing it will drop to 4.5 ish. May need a quick 10 min fast charge before the return journey to be on the safe side. Esp if I let  my partner drive back. Her right foot is heavier than mine. 

To be fair , I easily got 70mpg out my Mondeo, and 65mpg out my focus ecoboost. Folk just need to learn how to drive properly. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. And no I don't drive around at 30mph everywhere. 

[ColW]

I've been keeping an eye on this topic for a while. Now ford have officially stated the focus will end in 2025 I think this will be my last focus. I was hoping they would produce a new electric focus with around 300 miles range. While the puma looks nice it is too high up for me.  I like the driving position in my focus, when stopped next to a puma my head is below the shoulder level of a puma driver. I'm over 6ft so the suv style doesn't suit me. I like being close to the ground when driving. I was thinking along the lines of cupra born, mg4, Toyota Corolla, maybe vw id3 for a reasonably affordable electric fairly sporty hatchback next. I'm not a fan of French cars or Vauxhall but that could change if there is something that suits me.  45 to 50k for a car is out of my budget, 35k is probably my upper limit so any suggestions welcome.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, ColW said:

35k is probably my upper limit so any suggestions welcome.

Several of us doing the same exercise, I think. 

Hyundai i30 and Kia Ceed could be worth a look for ICE hatchbacks of Focus size. Corolla is a hybrid of course, as is the new Honda Civic of which I've seen very good reports.

Always the Golf/A3/Octavia/Leon of course, though the screen controls annoy to varying degrees.

I'm doing a few test drives in the next week or so of the few remaining ICE cars that (vaguely) interest me, after that I'm thinking Corolla or similar myself.

Edit: PS the Puma is only around 50mm higher than a Focus 4 (1537 vs 1483) though it looks higher when parked adjacent. Could be differences in seating position and driver stature account for your head/shoulder impression. I have a mate who's 4" taller than me but we both have the same leg length, so he always seems to sit higher in a car!

 

[iantt]

Corrola is the best of the hybrid route. Can achieve 75-80mpg with normal driving. Better if you "pulse and go" .not a term I had heard before until I was looking at Toyota fuel efficiency.  Got plenty of kit standard. 

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

49 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

the new Honda Civic of which I've seen very good reports.

Just to add to that, this blurb from Honda has links to several test reports, as well as some interesting technical stuff: 

https://www.honda.co.uk/engineroom/cars/honda-civic-hybrid-2022-reviews/

https://www.honda.co.uk/engineroom/cars/2022-civic-drive-train/

 

[ColW]

I generally do 200 to 250 miles a week with the odd longer journey. I am thinking battery power for my next car and get an ev tariff for overnight charging once to twice per week. If battery car sales continue to rise then I think petrol will only increase in price. I don't see the point of a hybrid although I was reading about a battery car that has a petrol engine for charging the battery only which sounded interesting.

Regarding the puma I think the seat position is much higher being an suv. I drive my wife's ecosport which is much higher seating position and I prefer to be lower down in the seat.

[alanfp]

4 hours ago, ColW said:

I'm over 6ft so the suv style doesn't suit me. I like being close to the ground when driving.

Each to their own, of course, but I'm over 6ft tall and I prefer an SUV style car. 

The point of a hybrid is that you use energy that would otherwise be lost in various sources of inefficiency.  A PHEV enables you to use cheap energy for most journeys (i.e.local ones) but you don't have to worry about charging for longer journeys as you use the ICE. 

And smooth, silent, pollution-free low speed manouvres including creeping along in traffic jams.

[Jimpster]

i had a Renault Scenic Megane and loved the elevated seating position gave one an air of superiority LOL

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Jimpster said:

i had a Renault Scenic Megane and loved the elevated seating position gave one an air of superiority LOL

I used to get that when we had a LR Freelander 2 for a while. Unfortunately (other than a couple of foc days at the Land Rover off road experience) that was about the only thing I liked about it.

[TomsFocus]

I also prefer to be lower down in the seat. 

I've mentioned before how I feel like I'm sat 'in' the Golf, between the suspension struts.  But feel like I'm sat 'on' the Focus, bouncing around above the suspension.

Don't like the lofty driving position at all.  Each to their own, of course.

[Jimpster]

my brother had an MG B GT, now thats was scary to be a passenger in, you could read the writing on truck tyres.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

18 minutes ago, Jimpster said:

my brother had an MG B GT, now thats was scary to be a passenger in, you could read the writing on truck tyres.

I had a Midget, which was lower still. Didn't bother me at all at the time, but I don't think I'd enjoy it so much now, being walled in by SUVs. (Always assuming I could even get in one now!😀)

[iantt]

I had a Sinclair c5 and that was lower still.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Not really. Didn't want to miss out. 🤣🤣 but did have triumph vitesse and that was fairly low to the ground. The lower the higher the sense of speed. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, iantt said:

but did have triumph vitesse and that was fairly low to the ground.

We're doing our usual trick of going off topic and indulging in nostalgia. I always liked the Vitesse, nice interior, straight 6, transverse leaf rear suspension not so good. My mate had one and rolled it, so his head ended up very near the ground!

 

 

[iantt]

23 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

We're doing our usual trick of going off topic and indulging in nostalgia. I always liked the Vitesse, nice interior, straight 6, transverse leaf rear suspension not so good. My mate had one and rolled it, so his head ended up very near the ground!

 

 

I remember the dodgy rear suspension but I knew how far I could push it. It was so quick to get past legal speed limits too. Found an image of it online. I started to do the paintwork primer then got moaned at by a neighbour who said the paint spray was blowing in the air over his black car. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Sold it not longer after and looks like the new owner hasnt got much further. 

[mjt]

18 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

transverse leaf rear suspension not so good. My mate had one and rolled it

It wasn't just the transverse springing but the swing axle. Dreadful design!

On the subject of low driving positions with the loss of joint flexibily with old age my wife and I were finding our Mk3 a bit of a struggle to get in and out of. It felt lower than our Mk2.5 though I never did a measurement. My wife, with mobility problems, struggled to get in and I, with my 6' 2" frame, struggled to get out, having to heave myself up. That's why we went for the Suzy. That's just the right height for us. Interestingly a Kia Sportage we tried felt too high, even for me.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

4 hours ago, mjt said:

It wasn't just the transverse springing but the swing axle. Dreadful design!

On the subject of low driving positions with the loss of joint flexibily with old age my wife and I were finding our Mk3 a bit of a struggle to get in and out of. It felt lower than our Mk2.5 though I never did a measurement. My wife, with mobility problems, struggled to get in and I, with my 6' 2" frame, struggled to get out, having to heave myself up. That's why we went for the Suzy. That's just the right height for us. Interestingly a Kia Sportage we tried felt too high, even for me.

Yeah, we could drone on for ever on the Triumph rear end. My only ownership experience of that design was on a Mk 4 Spitfire which was (supposedly) an improved version.

Couple of pics below of the Vitesse set up Mk 1 and improved Mk 2 for anyone wondering what we're on about.

Vaguely back on topic, I never owned a Focus 3 but my gut feeling from test drives was also that it felt lower than the Mk 2.5.

Friends of ours have just swapped their Volvo V40 for a VW T-Roc and are so far very pleased with it.  They like the higher seat position and bigger boot space, though the V40 did seem to me very low, more so than the Fiesta, and the boot was poor for a car which is basically a Focus platform.

 

 

[Hackney]

23 hours ago, iantt said:

I remember the dodgy rear suspension but I knew how far I could push it. It was so quick to get past legal speed limits too. Found an image of it online. I started to do the paintwork primer then got moaned at by a neighbour who said the paint spray was blowing in the air over his black car. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Sold it not longer after and looks like the new owner hasnt got much further. 

Hell, aren’t you a glutton for punishment!

[iantt]

1 hour ago, Hackney said:

Hell, aren’t you a glutton for punishment!

Nope, was an entertaining drive and never let me down . Used it to go to work and back regular. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Vaguely back onto what I think the topic was................ 😀

Just back from an initial test drive of a Toyota Corolla, which I found very interesting, not having driven an FHEV previously.

Other than boot space, which looked a bit tight, but I have yet to check the actual figures, all the normal stuff - seat comfort, driving position, etc were fine and it seemed well screwed together with no rattles despite a fair amount of hard plastic.

 Seemed a bit strange on start up to press the button and .............nothing. Always starts off in electric mode apparently and during the drive I could tell the engine had cut in to recharge the battery more from a movement of the rev counter than any noise or vibration.

Good balance between ride and handling I felt - soft enough for comfort but still sufficiently firm to control roll on corners. Steering was light but accurate diving nicely into corners and the wheel itself felt good to handle.

Didn't really know what it would be like performance-wise, but it was pretty much as I'd expect from a car that size with 180 bhp or so (it gets a hike to 196 next year) and zipped along very smartly. (This was the 2.0, there is a 1.8 with currently 122 that I think goes to 140 for 2023). Weird not feeling any gear changes (manual or otherwise), though,  just a continuous flow. I guess a full EV would feel similar.

Not enough time this morning to delve more deeply into the various modes, etc, but a longer test drive is on offer so I may well take that up and see what you can fiddle with.

One thing I did resolve is that, other than the wheel sizes, there are no mechanical differences between the trim grades, so for example the "base" but very well equipped Icon is on 16" alloys, while at the other end the GR Sport gets 18s and some very nice sports seats but is still on the same suspension, unlike Ford's ST-Lines which are lower and firmer.

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

4 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

boot space, which looked a bit tight, but I have yet to check the actual figures,

No, I was right, it is tight. Only slightly bigger than the Fiesta's (292 litres) at 313 litres for the 2.0, though the 1.8 has a smaller battery apparently and so is bigger at 361 litres.

My initial impression was based on it not looking much different to the boot in the VW Polo GTI I tested the other day (I've had a busy week!). The normal Polo is about 350 litres but that reduces to about 305 (reviews differ slightly) in the GTI on account of the battery being moved there to accommodate the bigger engine.

[iantt]

I thought the battery was under the seat on the corolla? Must encrouch the boot space as well then. 

[iantt]

Well, had the car nearly 4 weeks and 700 miles later ive  calculated it's cost me £26.61 in electric. On an octopus go tarrif that would have been Around£12 but would have to take in account the higher day rate too though. I think that's right. Supprised I've not used more electric on climate control. Still, it's been fairly warm last few weeks. 

 

[Hackney]

6 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Vaguely back onto what I think the topic was................ 😀

Just back from an initial test drive of a Toyota Corolla, which I found very interesting, not having driven an FHEV previously.

Other than boot space, which looked a bit tight, but I have yet to check the actual figures, all the normal stuff - seat comfort, driving position, etc were fine and it seemed well screwed together with no rattles despite a fair amount of hard plastic.

 Seemed a bit strange on start up to press the button and .............nothing. Always starts off in electric mode apparently and during the drive I could tell the engine had cut in to recharge the battery more from a movement of the rev counter than any noise or vibration.

Good balance between ride and handling I felt - soft enough for comfort but still sufficiently firm to control roll on corners. Steering was light but accurate diving nicely into corners and the wheel itself felt good to handle.

Didn't really know what it would be like performance-wise, but it was pretty much as I'd expect from a car that size with 180 bhp or so (it gets a hike to 196 next year) and zipped along very smartly. (This was the 2.0, there is a 1.8 with currently 122 that I think goes to 140 for 2023). Weird not feeling any gear changes (manual or otherwise), though,  just a continuous flow. I guess a full EV would feel similar.

Not enough time this morning to delve more deeply into the various modes, etc, but a longer test drive is on offer so I may well take that up and see what you can fiddle with.

One thing I did resolve is that, other than the wheel sizes, there are no mechanical differences between the trim grades, so for example the "base" but very well equipped Icon is on 16" alloys, while at the other end the GR Sport gets 18s and some very nice sports seats but is still on the same suspension, unlike Ford's ST-Lines which are lower and firmer.

 

Toyota Hybrids & Honda Hybrids are the best out there, by a country mile.Both pretty well ‘bulletproof’. Far better than anything Ford can produce.