iantt Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 So what rishi sunak says may mean nothing if labour win next time I thought labour wanted net zero by 2030, and the cons wanted 2050?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 19, 2023 Author Share Posted September 19, 2023 Just now, iantt said: So what rishi sunak says may mean nothing if labour win next time I thought labour wanted net zero by 2030, and the cons wanted 2050?? We are legally obliged to the 2050 'net zero' deadline thanks to that amazingly incompetent PM, Theresa May. 2030 was just an arbitrary date set by the amazingly incompetent Boris Johnson to stop sales of proper cars... Labour just sat on the fence and nodded their heads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Starmer Tells Automakers Labour Sticking to 2030 Curb on Petrol Cars Opposition holds firm on policy Sunak is facing pressure over Car lobby group says changing tack would be unhelpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottman Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 The problem of the “flip flopping” conservative is common in America as well. They are so fearful of being labeled as uncaring or cold hearted that their spines have disappeared. I’m not a believer in the government being a cradle to grave wet nurse for the citizens. It’s a terrible existence to be on the tit of the government. Nothing is free and the government will have the expectation that the citizens will be loyal to the government in return for their continued generosity. It’s all just a terrible idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Seeing as manufacturers are committed to EV by then anyway is a pointless gesture by Sunak to his climate denial and oil buddies. We know ford have stopped production of Fiesta to build electric explorers already. Sunak may allow you to buy one, but there will simply be no new ICE cars available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 I'm so elated this morning! News is full of 'net zero' retractions! Many on this forum also hold the view that the whole thing is futile, which will monetarily cost every single one of us a fortune. (heat pumps, EVs 'green tax'). I predict the fall of ULEZ and blanket 20mph limits within 12 months...👍 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 As already mentioned, it's hard to see how the move to EVs could now be reversed, given the billions invested by the industry in converting factories, etc. A sensible compromise might be to extend the transition period for hybrids, which would be good news for UK manufacturing (Toyota) and also to give some long awaited clarification as to what the Government actually means by "hybrid" e.g. PHEV or FHEV. Some delay/watering down to the ZEV mandate would also be sensible. It seems illogical to penalise manufacturers for not selling enough ZEVs if the customers don't want to buy them. And recent figures have shown that of the growth in EV sales, only about 25% have been to private buyers, the rest are for business use where various tax etc incentives apply. https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-news/zev-mandate-impact-dealers-15-09-2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: As already mentioned, it's hard to see how the move to EVs could now be reversed, given the billions invested by the industry in converting factories, etc. Kinda like HS2, initial completion budget of £29 Billion, but now with an expenditure in excess of £130 Billion with no end in sight. NEVER underestimate the power of government to squander tax payers money! Industry will simply sue if they have been mislead... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, StephenFord said: Kinda like HS2 I'm generally a big fan of train travel, but that's one that should have got the chop years ago. If any politician had the guts to actually do it (and commit to spending the money on more useful regional transport schemes) they'd probably get a landslide. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Sunak to announce you still have the right to buy a brand new Commodore C64 or a brand new Austin A7, it might be legal but you just can't. As for HS2 it was obvious years ago this was a white elephant, but as Rodger say politicians to gutless to do anything, or more likely they have investment in the construction companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mark-UK said: Sunak to announce you still have the right to buy a brand new Commodore C64 or a brand new Austin A7, it might be legal but you just can't China will happily supply the world with ICE cars for as long as it needs, all built using coal & oil fired power stations. At least 'our' green credentials will still be virtue signalling how good we are, just all that nasty pollution will be geographically misplaced... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman600 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Excuse my ignorance as I hardly ever watch the news and definitely do not read any newspapers. I've not posted in this thread basically coz I can't be bothered reading 90 odd pages. So Tom what is/was the news about net zero retraction? Who's making them? Where did the source of this news come from? Eric. What the hell is ZEV? Regarding this thread and its title. I'm totally gobsmacked that it has 90 + pages and lasted this long without it being blocked by moderators lol. I have to say that within the Lexus forum where I personally started three threads on a similar theme but unfortunately due to a couple of members comments getting far to close to the bone rendering the threads being blocked. Just for the record. I was staunch dead against EV vehicles but more so being 'forced' into buying them. Now I'm a little relaxed by comparison. It makes perfect sense for me to go EV because of the mileage I do. Why don't I then? Because of its initial cost. In my case to have a home charger would cost over £3k. (My car is parked on a drive which is at the bottom of my garden therefore that's where I'd want a charger but to get the charger there is a massive faff) Plus the price of these EV vehicles. So no there's no way I'm going EV. I've had hybrids and they're Brilliant. You can't beat Lexus. I don't know if Hydrogen has been mentioned as a propulsion for cars. Now that I'm all for. Way way better than any EV. Why? What's the main ingredient in an EV? Yes it's battery. What do these batteries have inside them? Lithium and other stuff. Where does the Lithium come from? Countries where human rights mean next to nothing. Can these batteries be recycled? No. Don't believe they can coz they can't be recycled efficiently. How long does it take to charge a none luxury type EV? Far too long. Etc etc etc. I could go on and on and on. Bit I can't be bothered lol. Bring on Hydrogen propulsion 👌👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, tazzman600 said: Eric. What the hell is ZEV? = Zero Emission Vehicle. All made clear (or not!) in the link I posted.😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzman600 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Oh Tom. Your comment about China will make ICE cars using coal etc etc etc. Great point. They'll not stop using coal neither will India or other countries. What about the Industrial Revolution of a few hundred years ago? Cotton Mills Belching smoke? All this rubbish about global warming. Geez. What a load of balderdash. Global warming is a naturally occurring phenomenon which happens every few hundred years. A kind of human cleansing perhaps. Give it a good few years and still using coal etc etc our skies will be lovely like they were a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Looks as if different media sources have slightly different takes on the policy shift, but there seems some consensus that it means aligning with the EU's 2035 date. This makes some sense given that most of the best selling brands (or their parents) are EU based anyway. Ford of course have committed to selling only plug-ins (BEV or PHEV) in Europe from 2026 so it will be interesting to see how that goes. In the meantime I see VW have decided to go for one more refresh of the ICE Golf (with a fair smattering of hybridization) while continuing with developing Golf and Polo size EVs which, I suspect, may be of more interest to ex-Focus and Fiesta owners than the likes of the Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, tazzman600 said: Oh Tom. Please don't confuse me with @StephenFord. We have very different ideas regarding politics, EV's and climate change. I no longer post in this thread as it's not worth the stress. Some views are so deeply ingrained that any fact proven to the contrary is not believed, no matter how much evidence is provided. I'll stick to answering maintenance & repair questions in other threads. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT70 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: Ford of course have committed to selling only plug-ins (BEV or PHEV) in Europe from 2026 so it will be interesting to see how that goes. Ford have made a "listen to use, we're important" statement already, this morning. Ford are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 That'll be the China manufactured EVs from Tesla, Polestar, MG and others China produces EVs more cheaply than anywhere else. That is mainly due to Beijing's decade-old industry promotion policy of incentives and subsidies that enabled China to become the world's biggest EV market and control the global EV supply chain, including raw materials. EVs made in China are typically a fifth cheaper than EU-made models, the European Commission says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 40 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: In the meantime I see VW have decided to go for one more refresh of the ICE Golf (with a fair smattering of hybridization) while continuing with developing Golf and Polo size EVs which, I suspect, may be of more interest to ex-Focus and Fiesta owners than the likes of the Explorer. Will that just be an equivalent of a Golf Match (put virtually every option available on old new stock to get rid of it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimpster Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, StephenFord said: China will happily supply the world with ICE cars for as long as it needs, all built using coal & oil fired power stations. At least 'our' green credentials will still be virtue signalling how good we are, just all that nasty pollution will be geographically misplaced... But the EU is complaining the China is seriously subsidising thier car manufacturers thus making an unlevel playing field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 50 minutes ago, Mark-UK said: Will that just be an equivalent of a Golf Match (put virtually every option available on old new stock to get rid of it) Extensive facelift/update of the Mk 8 from what I've seen: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2024-volkswagen-golf-mk85-no-manual-new-hybrids I expect they'll tidy up the wiring in the "test mule" shown in the article, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, Jimpster said: But the EU is complaining the China is seriously subsidising thier car manufacturers thus making an unlevel playing field China has always made an unlevel playing field, that's why even our solar panel industry went ***** up, they make them cheaper using proper fossil fuel to manufacture! They're laughing at us... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 2 hours ago, TomsFocus said: @StephenFord I no longer post in this thread as it's not worth the stress. Tom, don't stop, you keep me on the straight and narrow when I go off on one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 3 hours ago, TomsFocus said: Please don't confuse me with @StephenFord. We have very different ideas regarding politics, EV's and climate change. I no longer post in this thread as it's not worth the stress. Some views are so deeply ingrained that any fact proven to the contrary is not believed, no matter how much evidence is provided. I'll stick to answering maintenance & repair questions in other threads. I don't blame you to honest, I've tried putting the miss information straight then get silence after. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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