AUTOMATIC gearbox or POWERSHIFT, you should understand the difference before buying.

[TrevorB]

No problem. PM sent with info

You definitely have the 6F35 mid range with "normal" torque converter type trans - No servicing whatsoever required

 

Sorry, I meant to say 6F15

First digit denotes number of gears. Last two digits denote what the manufacturer states is acceptable torque limit their trans will easily/safely accept, 15 meaning 150ps of torque

[siacelestar]

One auto box is missed out on the Mk4 discussion - AWF21

Made by Aisin (subsidiary of Toyota), and fitted to (mostly) pre-facelift Mk4, standard with 2.3 petrol and optional on 2.0 TDCI. This box is a torque converter type and although on the user manual and Ford literature it says it's lifelong fluid, Aisin actually recommends changing the fluid every 30000km. The oil filter is fitted deep inside the transmission and cannot be accessed unless completely disassembled, so changing often is key for longevity.

oil spec is JWS3309 (Mobil JWS3309 is only one approved to the specification), or if you have access, Toyota T-IV fluid (which is identical and made by Mobil). Don't even ask Ford about the oil unless you want to be surprised by the price tag!

Plenty of how to video on youtube regarding oil change procedure.. under 'TF-81SC'. This transmission is also fitted to various Volvo, Mazda, Suzuki, Citoren, Renault and BMW...

 

[Dave May]

 

NEW MONDEO ?? Its got a ZF gearbox. Maybe my next car.

Stay safe

Dave

 

[TrevorB]

Fake News!, Come on then Dave, give us a bit more info, ha ha - links, articles etc

Last year Ford usa announced they were ceasing manufacturing of "cars" and would only produce SUV type vehs. This info is also currently in many poulas car mags etc

The Fusion (usa Mondeo is deffo discontinued)

I would doubt Ford would "buy in" a ZF trans anyway as the they now produce an 8 speed torque converter type trans based on their own 6F35 mid range and derivatives. This 8 speed trans has already been fitted for some months to top spec S Max Diesels

If you go on the Ford uk site you can also "build" a Diesel eco blu Mondeo and specify it with an 8 speed auto, but it is not a ZF trans, it is as I say above

[Dave May]

Yo Trev
I think this NEW MONDEO ?? photo shows the best looking Estate car I have ever seen, its even got a towbar. I would be quite happy driving that with a 200HP ecoblue 2.0 Litre diesel with an 8F40 transmission.
Trouble is the yanks need 350HP to get to Walmarts so the 8F40 would not be strong enough even the 8F57 could still be a bit unsafe.
Thats why the ZF gearbox is used for this car as the engine options go above 400HP and the 0 to 60 is 6.1secs.
I agree that the Fusion will be discontinued but NOT the Mondeo.  We will have to wait until near the end of this year to see who is right.
If I was as knowledgeable as you are on gearboxes I would start my own POWER SHI*T gearbox repair shop you could be a millionaire by year end. Perhaps you already are.
Best Regards
Dave
 

[Guy Heaton]

Mate.  Noone is buying Mondeos.  You might like them, I quite like them too.

But noone else does.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/313304/ford-mondeo-registered-cars-in-great-britain/

[Mark M]

26 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Mate.  Noone is buying Mondeos.  You might like them, I quite like them too.

But noone else does.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/313304/ford-mondeo-registered-cars-in-great-britain/

Have you seen the numbers for other cars though??

Mondeo (just for 2019) was up by 250,000 compared to Kuga. Up by 273,000 compared to a 3 Series, up by 216,000 compared to a Fiesta, up by 270,000 compared to a 1 Series, up by 225,000 compared to a Jag XF.

Looks like a LOT of people are buying Mondeos.

[Guy Heaton]

Er...

https://fordauthority.com/2020/01/ford-fiesta-is-best-selling-car-of-2019-in-the-uk/

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark M]

I stand corrected, I thought your link was for first registrations so I compared against that.

They are still doing better than the Kuga and Jag though 😁

[Guy Heaton]

I like big hatches and I like saloons.  But these days every other car that passes by is an SUV.

[TrevorB]

Hi Dave, are you saying that there is such a Mondeo actually being manufactured with an 8 speed ZF trans. I can't find any info on that anywhere.

The only current production for uk vehs are diesels, and it has been like that for some time. The 2 lire ecoboost petrol was discontinued ages ago - hence why I don't have a Mondeo anymore. If Ford produced an 8 speed auto with a 2, or preferably, 2.3 litre petrol, I would buy one today

Dave, I am too old to start getting my hands dirty again, and no, I am not a millionaire, ha ha.The Bank of Mom and Dad is so well used these days I can't even save much money even in these lockdowns!!, and to think our twice yearly trips to Tenerife have also stopped, where is it all going to end

[Bobe Mihai]

Hello

First, sorry for my english.

I am from Europe Union (Romania) and I  want to buy a Ford Mondeo MK5 2016, with 2.0 TDCI Diesel.
On the second hand market I see 2 models for same year manufacture (2016).  One have Sync 2 and the other one have Sync 3, but what confuse me it's description for automatic transmission. Some guys says it's an automatic with 8 speed, other says just "Powershift" or 6 speeds.

I attached 2 picture to show you the difference. With one it's with Powershift DCT450 and with 8F40.

And final questions, both have same price. But what model it's better ? DCT or 8F40. It's not important the cost to maintain, just the performance/economy and durability in time. Also I use the car for drivin 50% city, 50% outside of city.

 

Thanks !

 

 

[TrevorB]

Mk5 Mondeo 2015 to 2019

Diesels have the Getrag Powershift 6DCT450 (thats 6 speed and will safely take 450 newton metres) No other options other than a manual transmission. MUST have trans oil and filter change every 3 years or 60,000 kilometres, whichever soonest

Petrol have the 6F35 Mid Range Transmission manufactured/designed by Ford USA in conjunction with General Motors, it is a normal torque converter type transmission. No transmission service required.

There is no 8 speed available until approx 2020 onwards (uk that is) and it is a normal torque converter type trans from the Ford USA stable, and similar to the 6F35

So, it all depends if you buy petrol or diesel on what type of trans you can have for the model year you are stating.

Sync 3 is much better than Sync 2  (S3 has to be updated by a dealer or, if you know what you are doing you can do it yourself over the internet. S2 just needs a new SD card which you can buy very cheaply off e bay etc

[Al.]

I had done my homework on autos and DCT's before I bought my MK5 Mondeo in December. The dealer had serviced the car @35K (when I purchased it) along with the trans fluid and filter change. It is a 2Lt TDCi 150 power shift, and its in all honesty a fabulous car to drive. The power is constant through the box at all times, and no slippage between the engine and box like a torque convertor. The problems that you read about is a massive mix of dry clutches (older type PS boxes) and people that simply do not have the oil and filter changed at the prescribed mileage/time, it is expensive I know, but surely well worth it! I based my purchase on these facts, and I will be damned sure to change the oil and filter when I have to.

[Budzikov]

Hi Guys, 

First off all, massive thank you for tons of very valuable information on this thread. 

I am on the market to purchase my first Ford, which comes with 2.0 TDCI (bi-turbo) 210ps Powershift. 

It is 2017 and has 40k miles and from what I know no transmition oil was changed at recommended milage/time. 

Would that be a big risk or 3k miles /and 1 year overdue is still acceptable. 

Should I avoid it? 

 

 

[Dave May]

Hi Michal

If you purchase a 2017  ( or any year )  Mondeo with powershift you can expect the following.

1)  The dreaded SPANNER warning light
2)  Crunching
3)  Whining
4)   Going into neutral
5)   Slipping clutch
6)  Juddering
7)   Loss of drive
8)   Hesitating
9)   Almighty bangs
Not necessarily in that order. 

These powershift units have many reed switches inside all triggered by rotating magnets. One of the big problems is iron particles in the dirty oil stick to these magnets so they cannot operate the reed switches. Also it is all computer operated. WHO NEEDS THAT ?
The genuine Torque  Converter transmission has none of these problems.
Also it’s not a good idea to tow anything and you will need a spare £5500 in your account for a new box eventually.

I wouldn’t buy ANYTHING with powershift.
Why don’t you go for the 2019 / 2020 Mondeo with Torque Converter transmission this has the rotary gear shift. It will be worth the extra few thousand. Not sure if my reliable 2004 torque converter box is EXACTLY the same as the latest 8F40 box but is does have the Torque Converter.
Best to check EVERYTHING with Fords first as some 2019 cars might still be Poweshift. 
Trevor is good for advice but might not be the same as me.

Hope you get a good one.

Dave

[Budzikov]

Thank you Dave. 

Wow. 

I am going to sound like an idiot but I just noticed this is MONDEO CLUB. 

I initially thought this is genersl topic For powershift. 

Sorry for wasting time - I was actully looking at FORD EDGE. 

Would that still be same advice? 

I know SUV is not the favorite here but is the powershift on the biturbo edge issues still applies? 

What is I get a car with low millage ( before the first recommended transmission oil change) and take care of it. 

Cheeeeers

[TrevorB]

Hi Dave, see you are still banging on your great big drum, yes every manufacturer has their problems but to say " you can expect the following"..........is way out of order.

Whats that earlier post of yours saying Mondeo having 8 Speed ZF - absolute fake news.

Your statement that iron particles stick to magnets blah blah blah and cause the problems are totally wrong. You must be reading the same sites that these loons post on who say Covid is all fake. The main cause of failure is absolutely nothing to do with iron particles, in FACT it is plastic parts breaking up in the front clutch. 

Have you actually read any good links (see Talk Ford) what the main cause of failure is/. Good unbiased info is also in this thread so I am not going to repeat myself about the two types of powershift etc, one being a terrible unit, the 6DCT250 which only goes in lower powered Fords, Citroen and Renault and was the one that cost Ford big money in the USA due to Powershift Fiesta sales going through the roof.

Don't forget many Volvo models use the Getrag Powershift and also some Mitsubishi.

It gets a bit more complicated to ID what trans is in later vehicles. Mondeo Mk5 Petrol are normal torque converter type called 6F35 mid range manufactured by Ford USA. Mondeo Mk5 diesel are Getrag Powershift. However round about 20 model year S Max started to come with 8 Speeds and these are normal torque converter type trans from Ford USA. Later Mk3 Focus and all Mk4 Focus also have torque converter type trans but not all are 8 speed (model spec dependant) Be careful, even some Ford dealers are advertising these 8 speed as Powershift autos, but they are not powershift

Michael, please don't apologize. I do not follow the edge so it would be unfair of me to just pass an opinion. However, from where I sit, I would be quite happy to own a Getrag Powershift (the 6DCT450, the one with wet clutches) vehicle, with low mileage ( before the first recommended transmission oil change) and take care of it.

If you see an Edge you want and need to know what trans is fitted, you are welcome to PM me with the reg number. If you have not got access to Ford ETIS I will go in and do it for you to ID what trans it has

 

[Clivewyn]

On 4/30/2020 at 11:42 AM, TrevorB said:

Powershift is just a description, not a brand name. Ford Powershift units are manufactured by Getrag and there is more than one type.

Volks/Audi dual clutch units are manufactured by Borg Warner

Just to clarify re the Getrag Powershift, the vast majority of problems relates to the Getrag Powershift DCT250 which has "Dry" clutches and was fitted to Ford, Renault and Citroens with the lower powered engine units in – these have well known problem that have been kicking about for years.

This DCT250 is the trans that was fitted to Ford Fiesta that the USA market purchased 1,000s off, hence the problem being mainly in the states as uk and Europe  usually buy manual trans for their small cars.

The unaffected Getrag Powershift DCT450 which has "Wet" clutches is fitted to numerous Volvo models and higher powered Fords such as the Mk4 Mondeo (petrol and Diesel, excluding 2.2 diesel), the Mk5 Mondeo diesel, S Max diesel and Focus ST diesel.

On certain current Ford models it is now also available in 8 speed spec

The DCT450 clutches are not slipping/burning when the the veh is stationary/speedo at zero as the trans has a unique feature of releasing any pressure/load onto the clutches in those circumstances.

As long as the DCT450 trans oil and filter are changed every 37, 500 miles or 3 years, whichever occurs first, it is pretty reliable.

Dave, you don’t have to wait until 2020 – The Mk5 Mondeo Petrol models have had  “normal” torque converter type trans since introduction in 2014.

It is called the 6F35 Mid Range designed by Ford USA and GM (General Motors) in a joint venture quite a few years ago. Each now manufacture their own now “in house”

It is a 6 speed trans but has been available in the American Ford Fusion in 8 speed format for quite some time. It is now also available as 8 speed in the Mondeo Mk5 peterol models.

2015 onward Ford Diesels still use the Getrag Powershift and some current models are 8 speed.

Ford may have stayed with the DCT450 Powershift on diesel models as it takes more max torque than the 6F35, which leaves the 6F35 a bit “close to the mark” if it was fitted to a current twin turbo 2 litre diesel (This is only my opinion, not a published fact)

Also Focus Mk3.5 (approx 2016 onwards) use a “normal” type torque converter trans designated the 6F15

The new Focus Mk4 Auto again uses a “normal” type torque converter trans designated the 8F24, and it is an 8 speed trans.

I do agree the ZF 8 speed is a great transmission and used in vehs such as BMW and Jaguar.

As Ford have manufactured/supplied their own in house torque converter type trans since at least 2014 you will not see the ZF 8 speed in a Ford.

If Powershift was originally designed just for Formula one, then so must the DSG unit made by Borg Warner have been!

The Mk4 Mondeo petrol and diesel use the DCT450 except for the 2.2 Diesel which uses a “normal” type torque converter trans

From my research the 6f (as I have on my 2017 1.5 ecoboost titianium x estate)has 3 gear sets and 5 wet clutchs! no torque converter ! oil can be changed easlily about 30k   In sport mode shifts nice and quick on the paddle shift!   https://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/08/ford-begins-production-of-new-mid-range-six-speed-automatic/?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALG-9aa64iXhK977wm9QBUq3_PZE93OtlAyAV-tJUXhg-JIPIVtX7xvBXCUaLpfYXtYq0cIkzP18n4OTBKbu28HMTvnKzDWCT6WIvr52k7Yj4BH1ETG4_tkf2gdBP79dS7A8CF1HSlvW_pzqicsGFVsuCTwbGttaTNKFm_cDB3xT&guccounter=2           

[TrevorB]

Clive, it sounds as like you have not read the full thread. If you have a petrol Mk5 Mondeo it is NOT a Getrag Powershift. The petrol Mk5 Mondeo certainly does have a torque converter

The Mk5 Mondeo petrol has a normal torque converter type transmission originally designed in joint effort by Ford USA and General Motors. Now each company manufacture their own units. It is known as the 6F35 mid range model. There is no official requirement for a transmission service. An oil change is not a specified requirement. In fact to remove all the oil you need to remove the transmission and almost strip it

[iantt]

I can also confirm the 6f35 as fitted to 1.5, 2.0 (and 2.5 in non UK markets) petrol engines has got a torque converter . 

[bogdanel]

 

Hi Trevor, 

I just bought a 2017 Mondeo 2.0 diesel with a 6DCT450 Powershift trans. The car has 65.000km (40.000 miles) on board. Unfortunately, the trans oil & filter haven't been changed at 60k km/ 37.5k miles. 

Immediately after buying the car, I did a full service at a local Ford dealership, including a trans service with new oil & filter fitted. They thoroughly checked the car and said that everything works properly. I can confirm that the car runs smoothly and I am quite happy with it. 

Is there any future risk to the Powershift transmission due to the service being delayed for 5k km / 3.5k miles? Can I do anything to minimize that risk (or future repair cost)? 

If there is a significant risk to the transmission, what symptoms should I look out for? 

Many thanks!
Bogdan

[bogdanel]

Correction - I think it's 6DCT451, since the car is Euro 6. 

6 hours ago, bogdanel said:

I just bought a 2017 Mondeo 2.0 diesel with a 6DCT450 Powershift trans. The car has 65.000km (40.000 miles) on board. Unfortunately, the trans oil & filter haven't been changed at 60k km/ 37.5k miles. 

Correction - I think it's the 6DCT451, since the car is Euro 6. 

[TrevorB]

Hi Bogdan, sorry have note been on this site lately. No I would not see any problems due to that short delay. Drive on and enjoy!

No, its still 6DCT450

[Noms2018]

Hey guys,

Which transmission would a 2012 2.0 ecoboost powershift petrol have?

Been trying to have a look but haven't managed to find anything yet.

Thanks!